How Christians Can Make The World A Better Place

This is completely true.

Like you said the problem is humans. It's human nature to do this. Instinctual perhaps.

Potato, pota(h)to

Hence, the entire premise behind my thread. I am calling Christians to stop being part of the problem, and start being part of the solution. Stop being judgemental and separatist, be inclusive and accepting. Be kind and forgiving.

Just curious Daemun, but do you believe non christians will go to hell and burn forever and ever in eternal torture for not believing what you believe?

Oh no... Neosutra has arrived. /abondon thread lol...

Await this answer, as it pertains to your question.

Sigh.

I dont believe in religion either, but I dont understand why you find this statement disgusting.

For someone who believes this life is nothing more than a blip of time in their overall existence, why would it hold much value?

Its quite logical from that point of view.

Perhaps because it seems contrary to what most level headed humans (religious or otherwise) would consider a fundamental right to life and quality of life therein. For someone to be completely unsympathetic and neglectful of that is astonishing.

North Korea already proved that point. Clueless people are always going to manipulated by the more cunning of our species especially when education and knowledge is denied. Highlight that part about denial of education and knowledge and underline it.

The fact as it stands right now we've got 3 monotheisms on the loose and a group of people (the non-believing community) who want to be able to exist without being stepped on by the forces of religious faith. Further, you could accuse the 3 monotheisms of trying to bring about nuclear war in the Middle East as a plan to bring about the end of days. Things have to get bad to open the gates of paradise afterall so what incentive is there for peace?

Everything has been prophecized so our "free will" is nothing more than a farce designed to give us the illusion of choice as we march towards the inevitable.

That's where theists and atheists differ distinctly. Many of us non-believers are tired of having to exist in silence while religion rips the world apart to summon a deity that has no evidence outside some ancient books, tired of being massacred whenever intelligent conversations are started, tired of being marginalized by the media because we dare to dream beyond the 'inevitable' and tired of being beaten, harassed, mocked and denied opportunity because we possess the courage to say "we don't know" to many of the fundamental questions.

Theists love to call themselves the victims but in America they're the ones heaping on the violence while claiming to be the keepers of morality, they're the ones unable to accept a world where no longer do they hold an iron grip on knowledge and inquiry and unable to accept that some people want to spread the word that being non-believing is ok just like being LBGT is ok.

It's all quite troubling to me because we have the history of what happens when religion takes complete control but so many continue to deny the past thinking that they'll get it right this time. Go take a view around the world and see what happens in areas of extreme religious faith.

Isn't it the opposite? Without an afterlife how can you argue that life truly has any value at all?

Value only exists in the mind of one who perceives it. So if there is no perception on value then it does not exist. Currently, we are the only beings in existence, that we are aware of, that has a conscience capable of assigning value to something else. (Animals probably too, but we are all currently restricted to the Earth)

Therefore any value that life has, is given by us alone.

Now, what happens if a catastrophic event occurs that wipes out all life on this planet. If there is no God, and no afterlife then all value that once existed for life is now gone, and IMO it could be argued that it never really existed in the first place.

Voltaire: “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

This guy got it and he lived in the 18th century.


Prove the afterlife exists. Met anyone who came back from the other side personally? Until you prove it exists, you're just wish thinking.

Life has value because we experience it every day we wake up. As far as we can tell with our senses life has value simply because we exist. Make the best of it while you exist here because no one has any knowledge of what happens after this life no matter how hard someone pretends to know.

The evidence points that our brains shut down and we cease to exist. Cruel? Anticlimactic? Perhaps, but that's all we know for sure. Don't believe me? Go ask a corpse. I don't see any corpses rising out off graveyards of the big screen.


The dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteor some 65million years ago and you're arguing that we can't prove they existed? The fossils, the bones, the remnant plant material is all right there in the ground if you choose to seek it out.

Dinosaurs existed.
Dinosaurs are now extinct because a meteor wiped out all life.
Therefore dinosaurs never existed???

These are subjective terms. Yes it is contrary to what many people think, but its not illogical based on his POV.

Also, I dont think anyone is actually truly sympathetic towards any ancient civilizations that no longer exist.

never lose sight of your duty, to many have forgotten those core teachings and taken them out of context and clouded their meanings into the total the oposite of what they were ment for

While it is difficult to show legitimate empathy to those that have passed thousands of years ago, to support, let alone worship a deity that supports and enacts upon said mindset in the modern world is questionable. But of course everything will be logical and therefore justified with that given point of view; and everyone has their right to an opinion or point of view even if it is a manner of distribution of value to human lives. But it's dangerously close to the point of view that too often is put into tangible action that alienate the rights and lives of others, as seen in the news on almost a regular basis.

I think disgust shouldn't be the word to throw against something that is logical or not. I think it's logical too, but doesn't mean it's good to have that view. They have differing values here.

100% agree with you and this post.

Modern Christians will argue with you that New Testament Bible eliminates that style of Godhood now though.

I am so full of disgust, so I shall say I am disgusted.

I am disgusted that someone can justify a genocide. I am disgusted that they can say "Thou shalt not kill" and justify brutal murder, as much as I am disgusted by "Though shalt not steal" and justify stealing the lives of countless.

I am disgusted that religion teaches you that it is okay to commit genocide if you think you're doing something for the better. I am disgusted that this same logic can be used to exterminate me, despite my atheistic beliefs. That this person could justify robbing me of my life with the same line of reasoning.

I am disgusted that any would worship a being that slaughtered humans by the thousands, the ten thousands.

I am disgusted that the only thing we know to have could be robbed so easily, and that this robbery of the utmost fowl kind, this robbery of life itself can be so easily justified because of souls that can't be proven.

And even if they could be proven, I am disgusted by the tyranny of the action. Those people had lives, they had families, they felt and feared and loved and dined and sang and dance and pranced and spoke and laughed and lived just as we all do! But because the madman that killed them all said it was for the better, that it was okay! And I am to feel okay that the people who say it is okay coexist with me, knowing that they can just as easily justify a genocide unto more people?

Even if the soul could be proven, even if God does exist and the story was not codswallop, I am so very, very disgusted. I am as disgusted as the extermination of the Buggers, I am as disgusted as the Jihad in Dune makes me feel. I am disgusted because that tyrant, that bloody tyrant in his sky castle, could say "I created you, and I have not made you well enough, so I will destroy all you" and that you can accept that. I am disgusted that you can embrace that.

Is that to say that my parents, who made me, should have the right to kill me? I see now where the Christian hate is justified for homosexuals, or why Muslims may do honor killings: because their God, their Allah, is a murderer, and it is only logical to follow the perfect being.

It disgusts me so much that even though I do not believe this flood was ever to have happened, that I am still disgusted that any would support these actions. What gave him the right to cast away so many lives? To kill indiscriminately? To not give people a chance to defend themselves?

I am so very disgusted, following their broken logic or not, that they have such a disregard for the present life that they would end it in hopes of an afterlife that cannot be proven. I am so very disgusted.

And I am sorry, I am so sorry for them. I am so sorry for the people who justify this, for they cannot see how precious life is. Even if there is an afterlife, how can they not see how amazingly awestriking this current one is?

I am so sorry.

And I forgive you, for your hatred against the humans that can be seen so easily by justifying the slaughter of so many of them.

I forgive you, for you know not what you do.

please Xueye understand that I am not making light of your post.

with that said, lmfao @ codswallop

I think I picked it up from Hagrid. Along with "Galloping Gargoyles".

Unrelated, but you should play Chrono Cross if you haven't already.
The story of one fighting for their right to exist in one world parallel to another from invisible strings that bind them together is remarkable and fascinating. Fighting against fate itself is hell of a drug concept.

No, not a mere difference of pronunciation or viewpoint.

The bit about remembering the sabbath and keeping it holy is one of the LAWS. What Christians call the 10 commandments.

It doesn't allow for picking a different day just because its convenient. About 5 - 8% of Christians belong to Saturday sabbath sects, they read it like I do.

So did Jesus.

Never said there was no value to a human life. Quite the contrary. But relative to spiritual life, rather insignificant.

I really value your opinion on this matter Sai. Knowing you are not of my faith, yet still are able to understand where I am coming from means a lot.

The difference is real life is a lot more tangible than spiritual life. Though both are relative and subjective in value per individual, would your outlook on the value of spiritual life taking priority over biological life justify the deaths of many?

True, which is why I would hope that you wouldn't put me in the same boat as other Christians. Think of me as an individual, who seeks to follow the teachings of Christ. If I am ever doing a poor job of that, I would hope you would have enough respect for me to let me know.

These people weren't referred to as Christians at the time, but they were followers of Christ. At a point in the future, those people began to identify themselves as "Christians", therefore these early day followers of Christ, would be Christians as it is merely a term.

Another example would be say Africans. They have always been the people of Africa. It wasn't until people called them "Africans" did they deem the name. The people that came from that area of the earth before it was called that are still Africans, although history didn't specifically write it to say such.

Only if it were to save the more valued spiritual life, as I previously stated. In a sense then, yes it does justify biological death. Only because my view of biological death is one of a death that is overcome. We exist beyond our biological death. A spiritual death is eternal, and cannot be overcome. We do not exist beyond a spiritual death, therefore a loss of spiritual life would be significantly worse.

So you're pretty much disgusted by all of humanity then... sounds about right!