Ban On Gay Marriage Struck Down

Not really, ever heard of the theory of conditioning? I've known a guy with 2 gay fathers, he was the product of a closet marriage, he was straight. Plus, there was a guy who had his penis destroyed during circumcision as a baby, and was given a sex change operation, and raised as a girl, later on, he came out as transexual, only to find out he was a boy to begin with. Based on that, you can raise a kid any way you wish, their sexual preference and gender identity will be with them regardless.

I have to completely agree with you. I believe marriage is more of a religious covenant and belongs for religious institutes to define. When people got married they were never given any extra benefits from it that they do now. I'm all for civil unions and gays having the state/government benefits. Go to a court and have a civil union. Go to a church/temple/synagogue for marriage. Let them both have the same state/government rights.

here ya go straight from the constitution itself

14th Amendment Section 1 reads:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

i really can't say I agree with you.
Everything is developed by social norms, just because the kid had gay parents doesn't mean that he wasn't overwhelmed the a society that stresses heterosexuality, parents, friends, and the world around you shape who you are.
now I do agree with you that you have a certain disposition depending on how you are reared in childhood, but that gets into a whole bunch of freudian bs but I think you get the point of that.
but then on the otherhand I can agree with you on the fact that it would be something that you were with from birth, and that could in fact be heterosexuality.
the general consensus is that we have a capacity to be homosexual, heterosexual...and any other -sexuals, our instinctual skillset being that we are a mammal makes us point towards heterosexuality in terms of reproduction(which is the goal for most living organisms outside of our species), we vest too many "emotions" into things as a species which made all this anyway.

instinctively we are driven to either screw or be screwed in some sort of way, anything past that is just human ***.

Here is the story on the guy I mentioned, David Reimer. The fact that he was raised female, yet ended up being male leads me to bilieve that Homosexuality and Transexualism isn't a choice, nor is it conditioning.

During a sermon at my church the pastor was talking about a couple he just married a couple days prior. He realized he had forgotten to sign the legal papers and said "Guess they are recognized by the eyes of God, but not the state. We'll have to sign them after today."

What I'm trying to say is that marriage is more of a religious term of a promise/covenant between a man, a woman, and (insert deity here) that is recognized by a religious institute. A civil union the state recognizes a couple, whether gay or straight, as a legal couple.

I'm trying to say, keep the term marriage sanctified instead of bastardizing or product branding it similar to people calling all facial tissues Kleenex. Kleenex, marriage, is the kind of facial tissue, union.

that is exactly my point to this the ceremony is religious but you have to go through the government to get the benfits of your marriage. So its not a religious thing anymore imo when i get married as im atheist my ceremony wont be religious one bit so why shouldn't i be able to get married by a judge?

See, here's the thing, You see 'Wedding' and 'Marriage' as religious terminology, because you're religious. I, myself, while I believe in God, I feel that religion is something that divides people, and I don't believe in it. That being said, I see marriage as a legal term, while a wedding can be either.

how many people live on this earth?
just because something happens so conveniently like that with one person doesn't mean that it's the same with everyone.
it's probably a bit more complicated than the way you make it seem.
just saying you are genetically wired to want to have sex with men sounds silly IMO.
you are genetically wired to want to have sex, the with xx/xy goes down to many qualifiers.
just mentioning them will be silly because I know all you will say is just something contrary to it.
and the fact that the list could be mile long.
the condition of oneself is the main qualifier, how your brain chemistry works is based on the stimuli you receive from all your senses, saying that you are genetically disposed to be homosexual just doesn't sound plausible the same way you aren't disposed to like fried chicken over steak or pizza over celery.
In regards to the whole David Reimer thing: that just proves the point that genetically he was still male...I don't really see much about a sexual disposition?
he found out he was actually male in 1980 at the age of 14 and eventaully married a female when he was an adult....I really don't see your point with this in regards to this topic.
edit: the sex of a person and sexual preference really don't prove any points on sexual disposition.
here's a quote

"when living as Brenda, Reimer did not identify as a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers, and neither frilly dresses (which he was forced to wear during frigid Calgary winters) nor female hormones made him feel female. By the age of 13, Reimer was experiencing suicidal depression, and told his parents he would commit suicide"

his parents revealed the truth after that, soooo i still don't see where you're getting at with all that.

If I found out something like I was born female, I doubt it would have phased me by 14.

It obviously phased the person you linked me to.
He obviously wasn't happy as a girl, so when he got older he officially became male again.
I really just don't see how this has anything to do with homosexuality unless he was girl on girling it with his wife at some point BEFORE he found out he was actually a male at 14.
not to mention their family record of mental illness anyway.
It was an interesting read, but not a very great example for your point.

He was against being female, depressed because he was female. The male imprints on his mind were there, regardless of whether he knew it or not, he knew he didn't want to be a girl. Despite being raised a girl, he fought it and never felt right, He couldn't choose to accept all he had ever knew, and he couldn't be conditioned to be a girl.

He was probably depressed because he wasn't genetically a girl, was outcast for how he displayed himself emotionally, if you read anything in that link you gave me you would have a better idea that they had record of mental illness, his twin brother was a diagnosed schizophrenic for example.
jeez -_- you really dont' understand do you.
let me break it down for you.
xx, xy
those are the chromosomes, you see his chromosomes are xy
not xx, so they pretty much did a quick fix superficially to make him xx, when in fact he was still xy.

sexual preference has NOTHING to do with this point you are harping on.


you seem to be confusing heterosexuality/homosexuality with male/female man.

I know. You're missing my *** point. I don't feel like arguing this ***, so instead I'm just gonna go to bed.

if i am able to miss your point, it obviously wasn't a good enough point to be made.
i mean yeah your point sounds good when you are arguing with someone who doesn't know the difference between the sex of their child and *** a man or a woman but hey what the hell do i know.

edit: your point was "social conditioning" in regards to sexual preference, your example was a mentally ill individual who had been lied to all his life who decided to be male after finding out that he was in fact already male.
the fact that he married a woman after finding out that he was a man is beside the point because he had already found out that he was male in his early teens most likely before anything sexually related happened just due to the outcasted factor.
to put it blunt, it was a bad example in the context of this topic.

I REALLY love this argument against Gay Marriage...

Typical Christian/Conservative- "We have NEVER redefined marraige before.. Why do it now?"

That's right! We're still aloud to married 4-5 people!... Wait... They redefined it...

That's righ! Adults can still marry children! Wait... They redefined it...

That's right! Interracial marriage is still banned! Wait.. They redefined it...

what christian religion are you speaking of that let's you marry 4-5 people and children?

i think marriage is *** anyway and that the whole gay marriage situation as a whole is just an elaborate distraction.

polygamy, you ever hear of salt lake city?

I think you should reread my comment again.

I never said that.

dude those are extremists and crazy people. I wouldn't even fit them in the same category

yeah I just reread it..I get what your saying they redifned things from the past

technically it would be right either way.
Mormons and several radical cults practiced polygamy.
that and Charles Manson.
homosexuality falls into the minority category just like extremists do.

So do Atheists.

Which Proves that majorities are not always right.

I wasn't arguing anything about that.
you are ready and raring to argue aren't you?

I was only adding to what you said, which I agreed with.

How is agreeing with you "ready and raring to argue" ?

I dunno.
must have been how you worded it.
the whole atheist thing is a bit subjective depending though.

Gay marriage should be legalized....however...gay divorces should be punishable by death. All the trouble we went thru to get em hitched they BETTER stay that way!

For those still at all interested, some more about the case:

Pro-gay-marriage side called 8 expert witnesses and 8 lay witnesses. The anti-gay-marriage side promised in opening arguments to supply 23 ways that gay marriage is harmful to society, but most of their witnesses withdrew from the case. They ended up only calling two, one of which melted down under cross-examination and admitted that "we would be more American" if we legalized gay marriage, and the other of which admitted they had no idea what they were talking about.

In the end, the anti-gay-marriage side was unable to conclusively prove through any historical, international, scientific, psychological, or sociological basis how gay marriage would harm society.