|
|
Religion strikes again
 Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:40:39
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Shiva.Weewoo said: I'm not singling out religion, but it is the subject at hand. No need to deviate.
Deviate? LOL.
If religion was as horrible as you and others like you claim it is, the human race would've killed themselves off thousands of years ago. I mean, since MOST (the majority) religious people are violent, we wouldn't have made it as far as we have, wouldn't you think?
See, this is why we can't have nice things. You shove words into my mouth and misinterpret my points. After this there is no intelligent conversation or civil debate, it's just a "NO U" fest that I won't take part of.
Also, mankind has been remarkably able to reproduce beyond the level at which people (naturally) die.
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Pointing out your hypocrisy is not deviating. It's simply getting to the bottom of your reason to make such blanket, unfounded assumptions and then attempt to backpedal.
O rly?
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 19:41:45
Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Only humans can create this kind madness. Fixed.
Exodus 35:2 God demands the death of anyone who works on the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 God demands the death of disobedient teenagers.
Leviticus 20:13 God demands the death of homosexuals.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 God demands the death of non-virgin unmarried girls.
Rape~
Zechariah 14:1-2
2 Samuel 12:11
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
God for Slavery~
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:7
1 Peter 2:18
God for Torture~
Revelation 9:4-6
Revelation 20:10-15
God for Child Abuse~
Genesis 22:2-10
Exodus 12:29
2 Kings 2:23-24
Psalm 137:9
Jeremiah 19:9
It is not MAN. It is god :)
I was unaware that 1) Christianity is the only religion in the world. and 2) God wrote the Bible.
[+]
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:42:44
Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Only humans can create this kind madness. Fixed.
Exodus 35:2 God demands the death of anyone who works on the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 God demands the death of disobedient teenagers.
Leviticus 20:13 God demands the death of homosexuals.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 God demands the death of non-virgin unmarried girls.
Rape~
Zechariah 14:1-2
2 Samuel 12:11
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
God for Slavery~
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:7
1 Peter 2:18
God for Torture~
Revelation 9:4-6
Revelation 20:10-15
God for Child Abuse~
Genesis 22:2-10
Exodus 12:29
2 Kings 2:23-24
Psalm 137:9
Jeremiah 19:9
It is not MAN. It is god :)
Man wrote the bible, not god.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 590
By Bismarck.Magnumatic 2010-06-17 19:42:54
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: No, you didn't. If his family beat him to death because they wanted to watch Lady Gaga shake her *** on MTV, would you blame Lady Gaga? You're a bit slow Lady Gaga has not been causing holy wars for thousands of years. Lady Gaga does not cause people to fly air planes into sky scrapers People who like Lady Gaga do not arm their children with assault rifles, and bombs. If you kill in the name of Lady Gaga, it doesn't make you a good person. Only god can create this kind madness. No, I'd say you're a bit slow. Deities haven't been starting holy wars for thousands of years. Stupid people have. Deities didn't fly planes into sky scrapers. Stupid people did. Deities don't arm their children with assault rifles and bombs. Stupid people did. (And the families involved in Columbine tried to blame Marylin Manson and had everyone believing them for a while there, champ.) If you kill in the name of a deity, that makes you a stupid person. For someone who abhors religion such as you do, and doesn't believe in it at all, you sure like to place the blame on a mythical, fake creature when it suits you.
You're right. God did not do it. It is absurd to say that god did it, since he does not exist.
PEOPLE WITH GODs DO THESE THINGS~
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:43:28
<3 katz
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 19:44:06
Bismarck.Magnumatic said: You're right. God did not do it. It is absurd to say that god did it, since he does not exist.
PEOPLE WITH GODs DO THESE THINGS~
And God didn't write the Bible either, since he doesn't exist, right?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:44:25
Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: No, you didn't. If his family beat him to death because they wanted to watch Lady Gaga shake her *** on MTV, would you blame Lady Gaga? You're a bit slow Lady Gaga has not been causing holy wars for thousands of years. Lady Gaga does not cause people to fly air planes into sky scrapers People who like Lady Gaga do not arm their children with assault rifles, and bombs. If you kill in the name of Lady Gaga, it doesn't make you a good person. Only god can create this kind madness. No, I'd say you're a bit slow. Deities haven't been starting holy wars for thousands of years. Stupid people have. Deities didn't fly planes into sky scrapers. Stupid people did. Deities don't arm their children with assault rifles and bombs. Stupid people did. (And the families involved in Columbine tried to blame Marylin Manson and had everyone believing them for a while there, champ.) If you kill in the name of a deity, that makes you a stupid person. For someone who abhors religion such as you do, and doesn't believe in it at all, you sure like to place the blame on a mythical, fake creature when it suits you.
You're right. God did not do it. It is absurd to say that god did it, since he does not exist.
PEOPLE WITH GODs DO THESE THINGS~
People with money kill for money.
People with love kill for love.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 19:45:41
Shiva.Flionheart said: <3 katz
/blush <3
[+]
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:46:11
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Pointing out your hypocrisy is not deviating. It's simply getting to the bottom of your reason to make such blanket, unfounded assumptions and then attempt to backpedal.
If you would be so kind as to point out where I have been hypocritical, I would be delighted to rephrase myself so that I am better understood and hopefully not misinterpreted as I believe I have been.
[+]
Phoenix.Destrac
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 263
By Phoenix.Destrac 2010-06-17 19:49:31
Religion can't be compared to money.
If a person kills or beats someone for money, they know they're doing something wrong. They just choose to do it anyway because they are *** with no compassion.
Religion on the other hand, attempts to say "something is right" and "something is wrong." A moral code if you will, which wouldn't a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that the corresponding sacred texts and books were written millenia ago, by regular people with flawed ideas as any of us, with outdated views and workings. Back then wars and conflict happened all the time, and oppression of groups happened all the time, so it was acceptable to execute women/men for cheating, for sex before marriage, for sex with the same sex. etc.
But we've actually developed as a society and understood better moral ideas. However, these outdated beliefs are still holding some people back.
If some religious guy beats up a gay guy, he thinks hes doing something right because, you know, God hates gays, so hes doing God's work. This kind of thinking can twist the minds of even the most "normal" and "good" person, otherwise helpful and compassionate (to those acceptable to his religion).
Religious thought often overrides rational and reasonable thinking, which is sad (kudos to you if you are religious but understand its shortcomings and don't get affected).
[+]
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:51:06
Shiva.Weewoo said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Pointing out your hypocrisy is not deviating. It's simply getting to the bottom of your reason to make such blanket, unfounded assumptions and then attempt to backpedal.
If you would be so kind as to point out where I have been hypocritical, I would be delighted to rephrase myself so that I am better understood and hopefully not misinterpreted as I believe I have been.
Do you need more time, or are we cool?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:51:26
Phoenix.Destrac said: Religion can't be compared to money.
If a person kills or beats someone for money, they know they're doing something wrong. They just choose to do it anyway because they are *** with no compassion.
Religion on the other hand, attempts to say "something is right" and "something is wrong." A moral code if you will, which wouldn't a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that the corresponding sacred texts and books were written millenia ago, by regular people with flawed ideas as any of us, with outdated views and workings. Back then wars and conflict happened all the time, and oppression of groups happened all the time, so it was acceptable to execute women/men for cheating, for sex before marriage, for sex with the same sex. etc.
But we've actually developed as a society and understood better moral ideas. However, these outdated beliefs are still holding some people back.
If some religious guy beats up a gay guy, he thinks hes doing something right because, you know, God hates gays, so hes doing God's work. This kind of thinking can twist the minds of even the most "normal" and "good" person, otherwise helpful and compassionate (to those acceptable to his religion).
Religious thought often overrides rational and reasonable thinking, which is sad (kudos to you if you are religious but understand its shortcomings and don't get affected).
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:52:19
Shiva.Flionheart said: Phoenix.Destrac said: Religion can't be compared to money.
If a person kills or beats someone for money, they know they're doing something wrong. They just choose to do it anyway because they are *** with no compassion.
Religion on the other hand, attempts to say "something is right" and "something is wrong." A moral code if you will, which wouldn't a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that the corresponding sacred texts and books were written millenia ago, by regular people with flawed ideas as any of us, with outdated views and workings. Back then wars and conflict happened all the time, and oppression of groups happened all the time, so it was acceptable to execute women/men for cheating, for sex before marriage, for sex with the same sex. etc.
But we've actually developed as a society and understood better moral ideas. However, these outdated beliefs are still holding some people back.
If some religious guy beats up a gay guy, he thinks hes doing something right because, you know, God hates gays, so hes doing God's work. This kind of thinking can twist the minds of even the most "normal" and "good" person, otherwise helpful and compassionate (to those acceptable to his religion).
Religious thought often overrides rational and reasonable thinking, which is sad (kudos to you if you are religious but understand its shortcomings and don't get affected).
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
The only one that notably comes to mind would be the Helen of Troy.
Phoenix.Destrac
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 263
By Phoenix.Destrac 2010-06-17 19:54:22
Shiva.Flionheart said:
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
I don't think love directs people to "execute this group of people for they have sinned."
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:54:24
Shiva.Weewoo said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Phoenix.Destrac said: Religion can't be compared to money.
If a person kills or beats someone for money, they know they're doing something wrong. They just choose to do it anyway because they are *** with no compassion.
Religion on the other hand, attempts to say "something is right" and "something is wrong." A moral code if you will, which wouldn't a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that the corresponding sacred texts and books were written millenia ago, by regular people with flawed ideas as any of us, with outdated views and workings. Back then wars and conflict happened all the time, and oppression of groups happened all the time, so it was acceptable to execute women/men for cheating, for sex before marriage, for sex with the same sex. etc.
But we've actually developed as a society and understood better moral ideas. However, these outdated beliefs are still holding some people back.
If some religious guy beats up a gay guy, he thinks hes doing something right because, you know, God hates gays, so hes doing God's work. This kind of thinking can twist the minds of even the most "normal" and "good" person, otherwise helpful and compassionate (to those acceptable to his religion).
Religious thought often overrides rational and reasonable thinking, which is sad (kudos to you if you are religious but understand its shortcomings and don't get affected).
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
The only one that notably comes to mind would be the Helen of Troy.
I'm talking about in todays day and age.
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:55:23
Oh, well then it's gonna be nit pickings then. Most cases will be very isolated, particularly among crazy folks. Same goes for religion and almost everything else too.
The most recent, modern day tragedy in the name of religious acts that I can recall would be 9/11. However, one could argue our war in Iraq with the evangelical influence in our army being something along similar lines.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:55:57
Phoenix.Destrac said: Shiva.Flionheart said:
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
I don't think love directs people to "execute this group people for they have sinned."
No, but it does cause people to brutally murder one another.
and most people wouldn't say love is a worthless emotion. There are many attributes that come down to murder, and blaming a scapegoat for any of them is a fallacious act. Blame the person, not the reason.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 738
By Phoenix.Smileybone 2010-06-17 19:56:22
Phoenix.Destrac said: Religion can't be compared to money.
If a person kills or beats someone for money, they know they're doing something wrong. They just choose to do it anyway because they are *** with no compassion.
Religion on the other hand, attempts to say "something is right" and "something is wrong." A moral code if you will, which wouldn't a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that the corresponding sacred texts and books were written millenia ago, by regular people with flawed ideas as any of us, with outdated views and workings. Back then wars and conflict happened all the time, and oppression of groups happened all the time, so it was acceptable to execute women/men for cheating, for sex before marriage, for sex with the same sex. etc.
But we've actually developed as a society and understood better moral ideas. However, these outdated beliefs are still holding some people back.
If some religious guy beats up a gay guy, he thinks hes doing something right because, you know, God hates gays, so hes doing God's work. This kind of thinking can twist the minds of even the most "normal" and "good" person, otherwise helpful and compassionate (to those acceptable to his religion).
Religious thought often overrides rational and reasonable thinking, which is sad (kudos to you if you are religious but understand its shortcomings and don't get affected).
Jesus wouldn't beat people up just because they don't agree with their religion. Most Christians wouldn't either.
Edit: Sorry, not about Christianity, but point is, most religions role models don't resort to violence to solve their problems and therefore most religious people wouldn't either.
[+]
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 19:56:26
Phoenix.Destrac said: Shiva.Flionheart said:
You could say the same about love. Crimes of passion for example.
I don't think love directs people to "execute this group people for they have sinned."
And around and round we go.
What would be a suitable counterpoint to yours, since you refuse to accept anything else? Please tell us, so the debate can continue.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 19:58:10
Phoenix.Smileybone said: Jesus wouldn't beat people up just because they don't agree with their religion. Most people wouldn't either.
Fixed.
[+]
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 19:59:02
Shiva.Weewoo said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Pointing out your hypocrisy is not deviating. It's simply getting to the bottom of your reason to make such blanket, unfounded assumptions and then attempt to backpedal.
If you would be so kind as to point out where I have been hypocritical, I would be delighted to rephrase myself so that I am better understood and hopefully not misinterpreted as I believe I have been.
Hey, you still haven't touched on this. At least make this readily apparent before calling me out on such an accusation.
[+]
Phoenix.Destrac
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 263
By Phoenix.Destrac 2010-06-17 20:05:07
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: And around and round we go.
What would be a suitable counterpoint to yours, since you refuse to accept anything else? Please tell us, so the debate can continue.
Not sure what you mean. I didn't know there was a debate with me going on, and didn't read your exchange with weewoo (you guys posted a page of stuff while I wrote one post lol). So there is nothing for me to "refuse to accept."
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 20:05:26
The hypocrisy is in your stand point, not what was said.
[+]
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 20:06:25
Shiva.Flionheart said: The hypocrisy is in your stand point, not what was said.
So what is it that I follow which goes against my previous stand point made?
[+]
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-06-17 20:07:03
Shiva.Weewoo said: Hey, you still haven't touched on this. At least make this readily apparent before calling me out on such an accusation.
Gladly.
Page 1 - Blanket Assumption
Quote: Troll or not, he has a good point. Most religious people take it extremely personal, therefore any manner of insult or attack against their faith or should something blasphemous arise they more often than not go apeshit and tend to resort to violent reaction.
Page 1 - First, justification for your statement, then some backpedaling, then further justification.
Quote: Well, you see this ***often enough in the news do we not?
But you are correct. Generally these people were passively violent to begin with, however, religious backlash tends to magnify the effect. Sadly resulting in an innocent man's death.
Page 1 - More justification!
Quote: Note that I said most take religion personally. In the end it's up to the individual on whether it becomes a violent reaction or not, but you have to admit; violence is a common side effect to religious conflicts as a whole.
Page 1 - Maybe a breakthrough, maybe not. You still blame religion.
Quote: It was far from my intention to single out religion as the most or only common factor of violent reaction. However, based on the incident at hand, there is a keen correlation between his death and the conflict's circumstances.
You're playing the politician's game, where you say one thing, then attempt to take it back by rewording your first idiotic remark a different way to cover up what you said previously.
In the end, it's still the same ***.
[+]
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 20:08:20
Shiva.Weewoo said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Shiva.Weewoo said: Just keep in mind that religion works both ways. It can be a powerful tool of self-empowerment through faith, but at the same time can be used as a tool or excuse for unspeakable crimes against humanity.
So can money. I don't see you boycotting money like you do religion.
Sadly our modern society runs on the stuff. I need to work to keep a roof above my head, clothes on my back, food on the plate and bills paid. Religion is optional.
I'm not singling out religion, but it is the subject at hand. No need to deviate.
The fact that you have strong moralistic stand points against religion, until something effects you directly, I see this as a hypocritical stand point.
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 20:09:31
They're pretty consistent. Not so much a matter of justification as it is observation with recent uprising in said events.
[+]
Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 20:11:27
Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Weewoo said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Shiva.Weewoo said: Just keep in mind that religion works both ways. It can be a powerful tool of self-empowerment through faith, but at the same time can be used as a tool or excuse for unspeakable crimes against humanity.
So can money. I don't see you boycotting money like you do religion.
Sadly our modern society runs on the stuff. I need to work to keep a roof above my head, clothes on my back, food on the plate and bills paid. Religion is optional.
I'm not singling out religion, but it is the subject at hand. No need to deviate.
The fact that you have strong moralistic stand points against religion, until something effects you directly, I see this as a hypocritical stand point.
I'm not so much speaking directly against it or hating on it as I am pointing out the fact that is no greater or less of a tool used in violent conflict as have money/love/land/war/etc. have for centuries.
Also until what directly affects me? You aren't being specific enough.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 20:11:48
Right, I'm going to bed, nothing else can be said that will elevate further than mud slinging and Opinionating~(not a word, but it should be.)
So good luck.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5297052/ce/us/south-african-man-killed-wife-kids-changing-tv-germany-australia-game?cc=5901&ver=usQuote: JOHANNESBURG -- Police say a South African man who wanted to watch a World Cup match instead of a religious program was beaten to death by his family in the northeastern part of the country.
David Makoeya, a 61-year-old man from the small village of Makweya, Limpopo province, fought with his wife and two children for the remote control on Sunday because he wanted to watch Germany play Australia in the World Cup. The others, however, wanted to watch a gospel show.
"He said, 'No, I want to watch soccer,'" police spokesman Mothemane Malefo said Thursday. "That is when the argument came about.
"In that argument, they started assaulting him."
Malefo said Makoeya got up to change the channel by hand after being refused the remote control and was attacked by his 68-year-old wife Francina and two children, 36-year-old son Collin and 23-year-old daughter Lebogang.
Malefo said he was not sure what the family used to kill Makoeya.
"It appears they banged his head against the wall," Malefo said. "They phoned the police only after he was badly injured, but by the time the police arrived the man was already dead."
All three were arrested Sunday night, but Lebogang was released on $200 bail Tuesday, Malefo said. The other two are still being held in custody.
Malefo said the mother and son will reappear in the local Seshego Magistrates Court on July 27.
"He was always a happy man, never violent," Makoeya's nieces, Miriam and Anna, told the Daily Sun newspaper. "On Saturday, we saw him the last time at a funeral."
The World Cup, being played in Africa for the first time, started Friday and runs through July 11.
|
|
