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Religion strikes again
 Shiva.Weewoo
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 04:51:51
Asura.Jetzabel said: Shiva.Weewoo said: No need to be bitter dear. Some of us remain civil and take interest in these debates and positions from a scholarly point of view.
I've tried to have a debate with Silvaria before. She added information into her argument that was completely wrong, then claimed it was unrelated and called everyone in the topic a troll basically (pretty much like she has done here). I don't paticularly like people who try to act as though they are so intelligent and have a high command of the english language but then say silly things and won't explain it. Continually making silly statements and only saying "Oh sorry about that" isn't really scholarly. For example, saying that religion is the ONLY reason a good person would act bad.
Whether or not other people have just been giving her typical troll responses is irrelevant, I've seen her in topics where people have gave proper retorts to her arguments and she never fully explains herself.
I know what you mean, and it comes from both sides and people tend to be unyielding especially when it is something they personally hold true to themselves. However, the best you can do is try not to let it get under your skin, and not necessarily attack but expose the holes in one's flawed logic or reasoning with a simple non-condescending tone. Hopefully this will open doors for both parties, but alas, we're more likely to get pigs to fly first...
By Esaias 2010-06-19 04:54:16
I always thought the party about beautiful feet was funny.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 04:56:32
Heh, I think I am one of the few atheists who finds great interest in general theology. However, I would have to do my best not to get sucked into things and automatically taking it in a literal sense.
If anything I'd imagine holy texts and passages of divinity to be subtle and purposely vague as to perhaps mold to one's sense of understanding rather than being strictly specific and applying to everyone without any leeway or grace in interpretation.
Similar to our constitution no?
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:00:50
misinterpretation is part of the problem.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (King James Version)
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
there are so many different subsets of religion because someone read it another way.
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:03:28
I'm shaking my head as I realize, my position is hurt more by people supposedly on my side, than those who are on the other side of the fence.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:05:42
Esaias said: I'm shaking my head as I realize, my position is hurt more by people supposedly on my side, than those who are on the other side of the fence.
Well for whatever it means, though I may be on the other side of the fence so to speak, my eyes, ears, heart and mind remain open to all, though it may not personally agree with me or my thought process, it remains open nevertheless.
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:06:06
the word christian, its original meaning was not someone who believed Jesus existed, but more importantly was "Christ-Like"
Sadly by my own admission I know very few "christians" and I would not even say I fit the definition.
No where near perfect.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:11:54
I go with atheist because it's the thirst for knowledge more so than self salvation or bond with faith... But I suppose even that is open for debate/interpretation.
As I am sure many religious followers that keep true to their benevolent metaphors are disappointed with those who use their faith as a tool of selfish fulfillment; I too am disappointed by those who speak of themselves as Atheists for the sake of being a devil's advocate or being contrary to conformism and whatnot. Not believing in a deity does not mean closing one's mind entirely.
I do my best to be true to that.
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By Phoenix.Smileybone 2010-06-19 05:21:38
"From what you said, it seems you are open to discussing any side of things and won't say "this is 100% certain" i.e There is no God. Agnostic basically means that while you don't believe in something, it is open for interpretation. Just like you said really lol."
Sorry my quote isn't working. D: but I think that you can hold a belief and still be open minded towards others. I myself am Christian but I am very open minded towards other beliefs such as Atheism, etc.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:24:53
I suppose that's fair. It does not agree with me personally, as I have been scientific in theory to the letter most of my life, thus conforming to the whole "until proven, it does not exist" field, however, I would never give myself a 100% sense of absolution or fortitude with even something as obscure as a supernatural or divine figure. Frankly that would be no different than denying the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot.
Silly, improbable, and quickly dismissed. But I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:24:58
I'm just curious, Jetzabel and Weewoo, do you seek proof?
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:27:31
Well >.<
He either exists or He doesn't
thats why I think its a yes or no 100% question
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:27:49
Atheist is a slippery slope and difficult term to punch a true to word definition to. I personally do not believe in the existence of God or any divine figure/creator etc. However, even though that applies strictly to myself, I try and go beyond that by looking over what very well is a personal barrier made in a never-ending process of observation and discovery. Being a true scientist means having your senses open to all, even if your mindset gets in the way so to speak...
Sorry if that was difficult to follow >.<
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:28:50
Esaias said: I'm just curious, Jetzabel and Weewoo, do you seek proof?
No. But, I seek a broader horizon in fields of observation and understanding. Or simply put: I stay thirsty :3
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:29:36
True, finding God is a spiritual issue, evidence is not mine to give.
However, I believe God is able to persuade people He exists.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:37:45
There's a duality to seeking truth or evidence as to make one's self certain of something to be truthful. I mean, even if something was presented to me as tangible, confirming without a (scientific) doubt that it was real or true, I would most likely accept it, but in the back of my head remain doubtful. This isn't much different than taking evident truths around us like the sky being blue, or the sun rising from the east. However, the only basis for it's truth is thousands of years of recorded observations and (though quite concrete) theories supporting what it appears to be.
However, there's nothing to say that at some point in time that it could change. I feel one should constantly be open to consideration of potential change, even in the things we often take for granted.
Bleh, it's 3:30 AM and it's becoming more and more difficult to remain well spoken and explain these ramblings in my mind >.<
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:40:18
Romans 1
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
I tried to keep the quote in context.
God expects you to see his handy work in creation.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:45:38
I hate to use this silly example, but it's a pre-made chart for what in essence is the process of a theory.
The thing is however, that one has to consider that just below the "accepted theory to understand the universe" bubble is the possibility of it being modified or even disproven through new evidence. Though it may not be readily apparent or even possible for mankind to discover, the possibility remains that it can be out there.
I suppose, the key is to never have a sense of certainty or absolution, because if so, one simply closes a door to opportunity and understanding, even if it is a cycle and neverending process.
Part of the reason I've long turned a deaf ear to religion in general. Faith more or less follows the virtue of fortitude. Though there is personal and spiritual empowerment through an unyielding virtue, it again closes doors IMO. Ironically turning a deaf ear undermines my entire point.
Now that's a paradox for you >_>
Kinda makes me think of that whole thing from the Matrix: "How do we know what is real? Real to us as humans is electrical signals given to our brain through our senses reacting to the circumstances around us" or something like that.
Anyways, I'm gonna give myself a headache opening these mindfuck outlooks. An interesting film any of you should see is "What the Bleep Do We Know?"
Truly a great documentary that gives the thought process a run for it's money.
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:51:38
It was truly wonderful discussing this with you two. This is the kind of thing I was hopeful of being apart in these threads, but sadly, argumentative outbreaks occur more than I'd like to see...
Anyways, I'm off to bed. As the most interesting man in the world would say: Stay thirsty my friends.
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:56:12
>.<
The reason I continue to quote The Bible is that God is a spirit.
Hebrews 4:11-13 (King James Version)
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
And by spirtual means can convey truth through His word.
By Esaias 2010-06-19 05:57:55
(take care)
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-19 05:58:34
Well then, perhaps that was the kicker. We chase our tails in pursuit of something physically tangible when in a sense it was under our noses in a plane that goes beyond self awareness in our "world". Or something like that. I'm starting to make less and less sense but I suppose that's the nature of spiritualism.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-06-19 06:08:04
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
lol sorry i had to
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5297052/ce/us/south-african-man-killed-wife-kids-changing-tv-germany-australia-game?cc=5901&ver=usQuote: JOHANNESBURG -- Police say a South African man who wanted to watch a World Cup match instead of a religious program was beaten to death by his family in the northeastern part of the country.
David Makoeya, a 61-year-old man from the small village of Makweya, Limpopo province, fought with his wife and two children for the remote control on Sunday because he wanted to watch Germany play Australia in the World Cup. The others, however, wanted to watch a gospel show.
"He said, 'No, I want to watch soccer,'" police spokesman Mothemane Malefo said Thursday. "That is when the argument came about.
"In that argument, they started assaulting him."
Malefo said Makoeya got up to change the channel by hand after being refused the remote control and was attacked by his 68-year-old wife Francina and two children, 36-year-old son Collin and 23-year-old daughter Lebogang.
Malefo said he was not sure what the family used to kill Makoeya.
"It appears they banged his head against the wall," Malefo said. "They phoned the police only after he was badly injured, but by the time the police arrived the man was already dead."
All three were arrested Sunday night, but Lebogang was released on $200 bail Tuesday, Malefo said. The other two are still being held in custody.
Malefo said the mother and son will reappear in the local Seshego Magistrates Court on July 27.
"He was always a happy man, never violent," Makoeya's nieces, Miriam and Anna, told the Daily Sun newspaper. "On Saturday, we saw him the last time at a funeral."
The World Cup, being played in Africa for the first time, started Friday and runs through July 11.
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