Trebold, you're a typical idiot that thinks he knows everything. Your black and white view of the world is so immature it's really funny. With every post you make I find it harder and harder to take you seriously.
This is the reason I stopped the so called debate back in another thread regarding muslims...
I've lived in an Arab country for almost a decade before returning back. And I've yet to see ***like this there or hear any rumors about it from my work partners (I can understand a few arabic and writings as a pre-req for my job).
It's all MBC and SpaceToon w/e the kids are watching nowadays...
Quick edit: Just noticed the name of the channel of the kids show... haha... wow... really?
Trebold, you're a typical idiot that thinks he knows everything. Your black and white view of the world is so immature it's really funny. With every post you make I find it harder and harder to take you seriously.
yeah I stopped a few post back Beels, hes some dumbass with a rubber gun in his moms basement. Oh look I can be silly too!
While I don't agree with all the movies Israel makes, (bull dozing homes and forcing people to move from their lands); they have a sovereign right to protect their citizens. The Israeli military uses heavy handed tactics because they got tired of the country getting attacked every few years by the surrounding Arab nations. As well as constant Arab attacks on Israeli citizens- remember Munich 1972, when the PLO slaughtered the Israeli Athletes? How about that for an over reaction. The fact of the matter is that as much as we like to think Israel overreacts, try living in the middle east for a time, and see how much the Arabs hate Israelis and train their kids to hate them.
**Also a large portion of the Israel-Arab conflict can be traced to the Cold war, when the US and USSR were fighting for allies. The USSR went after the Arabs and the US went after Israel and Iran. When Iran fell, for a few years Israel was seen as the only solid US ally in the region, which is why the US has continuing support of Israel, no questions asked. Learn the history of the region, then comment on it.
*You decide for wtv reason to cross the fence into the mine field
*You walk on a mine
*Your decision, your consequence
Israel decided to take that piece of land by force, face the consequence. The entire region is also suffering from their choice so tbh I stopped caring years ago.
Haven't read the thread, but just something to consider.
Seems like the commandos opened fire first, shooting a guy as they were descending (you can see the guy right in front of the camera jerk and fall back out of view), then things go haywire and some people start fighting back with bats.
Israel real identity was very clear in the middle east since their invasion, the only difference now is that their real barbaric identity is exposed to the world.
I had a friend in the british army, they were sent to support the isrealy army on of their countless barbaric battles, and him and his comrades were murdered by Israeli soldiers in random shooting.
Israel is a tumor in the world, Britain had successfully transferred this tumor (by the Balfour Declaration of 1917) to the middle east. The world once was fooled by the angelic face of Israel, but a liar and a murderer got to be exposed one day.
I dont understand if you guys dont give a blip why even post then. also Jews and Muslims use to live in peace b4 the creation of Israel. They lived in peaces for a long *** time. This entire conflict happened when they decided to invaded that territory claiming it as their "right" and "holy land" so you toss the first stone and start it off as a religious reason, Well you asked for it. I don't support those small factions who fire rockets in civilian districts or use womens to cover their ***. Those guys are scum but Israel is just as bad in their own way. Only innocent people suffer from the decisions of top gvt officials.
Muslims, Jews, and Christians still live in peace in many Arabian countries even today, but Fox, sky , CNN, BBC, etc all make you think otherwise. They just make you think that everything is happening due to religions differences.
The problem in Israel isn't that it's Jewish, but the Zionists and Masons.
P.S. Any of the three religions, is allowed to join the masons.
The occupation has been an act of sheer brutality being allowed by the US not because the nations are "friends" and the US wished to "protect" and "support" Israel.
The US has been using Israel for its own goals, ever since they were able to defeat the sovjet backed Arab forces in 67. Israel was just an opportunity, and has been used as a tool by the US since then.
Ever wondered why the US has never ever openly critisized Israel for it's numerous barbaric action?
If Israel won't stop treating the palestinians like caged animals they will both end up being destroyed.
The occupation has been an act of sheer brutality being allowed by the US not because the nations are "friends" and the US wished to "protect" and "support" Israel.
The US has been using Israel for its own goals, ever since they were able to defeat the sovjet backed Arab forces in 67. Israel was just an opportunity, and has been used as a tool by the US since then.
Ever wondered why the US has never ever openly critisized Israel for it's numerous barbaric action?
If Israel won't stop treating the palestinians like caged animals they will both end up being destroyed.
I agree with you, until recently it's very obvious that it's the other way around, the U.S. army is just a puppet in Israel hands, The U.S. government is torn between the pressure from the U.S. Army and Israeli lobby.
All of Obama's speeches were about how he will change the vision of the U.S., but after all of the problems Israel is making around the world, Obama couldn't help but to follow his precedent Bosh road, and declared that there is a war coming soon with Iran.
If there is something that will bring the U.S. to destruction, it's Israel. Take a look at the economical hit for example.
You magically fixed the problem? Awesome! I'm sure you'll get a noble prize for it.
I wish it were that easy ><; but I'm only one man 8X what good could I do when I'm up against the whole world trying to create peace >_>; Best I can do I suppose is raise my kids not to become a blood thirsty killer from either side of the story.
Much better to raise your kid to be the blood thirsty killer from the sidelines who kicks the ***out of both sides and wins the day.
America does just fine without missiles going off inside our borders as Jews and Muslims live within, wasn't aware their religious and political doctrin changed so violently just because of imaginary longitudinal lines on a map.
Life's Take #2: scrap society, revert to stone age, keep FFXI. Win? Win.
Regardless of the view of whether it was right or wrong to order a boarding of the vessels in international waters, let alone whether it was right or wrong to have a blockade in the first place, it was clearly just poor planning that resulted in this.
The scenario most everyone around the world was expecting was to have a showdown at the port-of-entry into the Gaza strip between the Israeli naval forces and that of the pro-Palestinian protesters. This would have likely had a lot of posturing, some dialogue shouted across loudspeakers, some ramming of vessels, some (if not all) of the flotilla vessels rushing the blockade to reach the shore--whereupon the Israeli forces would lose any chance to hold or question antagonistic pro-Palestinian aid workers (or mercenaries, or lawyers, or whatever) because the world would be watching to see if Israeli vessels would really fire upon these private non-military ships.
So the sadly typical cloak-and-dagger scenario thought up was boarding them at a surprise night raid, when resistance would be low, and media would be less likely to witness the events. The IDF task forces would be armed with paint ball guns and side-arms as a weapon of last resort, hoping the speed and aggressive take-over of the vessels would cow the crew into submission.
The Israelis didn't anticipate there being so many willing to resist, and when some soldiers were overwhelmed and lost their actual lethal side-arms to the protesting resistance, coupled with the hand-to-hand and knife-fighting, things got bloody. Furthermore, as it turns out, there were reporters detained in the groups that were from Al Jazeera...all the things Israel hoped wouldn't happen in a daytime stand-off/boarding action occurred anyhow due to bad execution.
All that is left is to try to paint the resistance group as secretly being mercenaries to justify the deaths. So Israel manages to secure all of the cargo and detain all of the crews for questioning, but at the cost of a bloody international incident...and of course ended up allowing some of the cargo to go overland through Egypt into Gaza now, anyhow.
The absolute definition of a "pyrrhic victory", I suspect.
Exactly. Why should the military say "Oh! You want to come through the blockade when we've said no? OK! Come on through!"
Seriously, wtf? -.-
Its the rules of war as per the Geneva convention which, funny enough, was made after world war 2. The war that the Israeli's were almost decimated. They turn around and create some of the worst war crimes.
Nothing will change. Israel getting nukes didn't change anything, none of the wars changed anything, the peace talks didn't change anything, the walls and blockades and elections have not changed the fundamental situation in almost half a century.
This is just a flash in the pan; Israel will continue its self-fullfilling paranoia, the Palestinians will push every last pebble up the hills and back again in their Sisyphean struggle, and all the world's nations will wail and whoop for one side over the other while pocketing trade of one kind or another with both sides.
I think at this point, Israel has proven that they can defend themselves just fine. Don't forget the nukes they have stashed away. All they want is their land and all the Arabs out, so we should just give them the land and leave them the *** alone.
After this I gotta say: These activists (Active terrorists) where lucky that "only" ~19 of them died.
Would you all have prefered to see this headline:
"Pacifists slaughter 50 Israeli soldiers"
Disturbing. Thanks for reminding me that there are multiple angles to every story... One should suspend judgment until presented enough facts before making up his mind.
Not to weigh in on the fundamental argument about who was "right" or "wrong" here, but:
I don't think anyone can disagree that Israel screwed up the PR on this one. Whether they were right or wrong, the press coverage and international reaction is pretty much universally negative. At the very least, they lost a diplomatic ally over it. (Turkey).
This strikes me as a serious problem for Israel, no matter how you feel about this particular incident.
The nature of their existence as a country is predicated upon maintaining strong strategic alliances, and that requires the good will of the international community. (Particularly the United States.) If they win the blockade battle but lose the PR war, have they really won?
Not to weigh in on the fundamental argument about who was "right" or "wrong" here, but: I don't think anyone can disagree that Israel screwed up the PR on this one. Whether they were right or wrong, the press coverage and international reaction is pretty much universally negative. At the very least, they lost a diplomatic ally over it. (Turkey). This strikes me as a serious problem for Israel, no matter how you feel about this particular incident. The nature of their existence as a country is predicated upon maintaining strong strategic alliances, and that requires the good will of the international community. (Particularly the United States.) If they win the blockade battle but lose the PR war, have they really won? Food for thought.
just like ussr with afghanistan and united states in vietnam.
Israel is solely dependent on war to gain more land, it was never a country until it took over Palestine in 1948 then about 5-10 years later Palestine was "officially" called Israel, while Palestine losing it's entire name off the world map. Just throwing this up for clarification on the state of Israel and how it became to be a country.
I hate to correct, but you're over-simplifying things a bit.
Up until 1947, the area now known as Israel was controlled by Great Britain. It was called Palestine, but that was just the name of the territory, not its own country. In 1917, the League of Nations gave Great Britain the "Mandate of Palestine" to set up "a Jewish state" there, but nothing ever really happened.
Following WW2 and the Holocaust, the United Nations -- by international agreement -- voted for the "Partition of Palestine," which called for a Jewish state (Israel), an Arab state (Palestine), and a neutral, UN-controlled Jerusalem.
Israel ratified the UN plan but Palestine did not. This caused Israel to declare independence from the UN agreement in 1948. The next day, neighboring Arab countries attacked it. Israel defeated them, and in doing so, occupied several territories beyond its original border, including the West Bank and Gaza Strip -- areas originally set aside to be part of Palestine -- and all of Jerusalem, which was originally supposed to be under UN control.
Not to weigh in on the fundamental argument about who was "right" or "wrong" here, but:
I don't think anyone can disagree that Israel screwed up the PR on this one. Whether they were right or wrong, the press coverage and international reaction is pretty much universally negative. At the very least, they lost a diplomatic ally over it. (Turkey).
This strikes me as a serious problem for Israel, no matter how you feel about this particular incident.
The nature of their existence as a country is predicated upon maintaining strong strategic alliances, and that requires the good will of the international community. (Particularly the United States.) If they win the blockade battle but lose the PR war, have they really won?
Food for thought.
They were never good in their dealings with the international community, many of their actions have a "I don't care what you think, I'll do what I want." kind of approach to it, which rubs not only the middle-east in the wrong way, but also the all-interested diplomatic western nations.
If they really don't want to be another Iran or N-Korea they really have to learn to become a democracy in more than just one sense, cause honestly, how it's going now Israel looks more like a fiscal-military state.
