Really Drgs?

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2010-09-08
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Really Drgs?
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 23:21:57
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ill sacrafice my 1 haste for some acc and attack cause even with blitz ring and turban 19% not the 20% where a big difference happens, like i have said still to this day i havent been beaten at bird pt, a well geared pole sam did give me a run for my money but hasnt. If it aint broke dont fix?
Protip: Fenrir DDs by and large suck ***. Did your polearm SAM even have a 5-hit and food?

Also gains from haste are continuously increasing, there's no magic tier where it becomes dramatically better.

Thirdly, lolbirds.
Quote:
ok yes i said that a little wrong, id love to get an ace's helm not joining another hnm shell, id love a heca cap, not joining another hnm shell and ein shell sadly broke. I'm happy with what i have, it works. and still if u merited pole dbl att/haste is win, now if i had valkys 14% dbl attack lol
Why? o_O
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-25 23:36:44
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yes there is a gain per each but a much bigger gain at 19 to 20, and when u actually get 75 on drg and can test then lets hear it since blu and drg arent exactly the same
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-25 23:37:21
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double attack and haste doesn't win unless You are able to cap acc while wearing turban and blitz ring rather than ace's and/or toreador's
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-25 23:39:51
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
yes there is a gain per each but a much bigger gain at 19 to 20, and when u actually get 75 on drg and can test then lets hear it since blu and drg arent exactly the same
lol, you don't have to be 75 at a job to know which piece is better, for example, he knows more than you, and you have the job 75
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 23:44:09
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
yes there is a gain per each but a much bigger gain at 19 to 20, and when u actually get 75 on drg and can test then lets hear it since blu and drg arent exactly the same
(newhaste-oldhaste)/(1-newhaste)

Haste values in decimals. Show me how in that formula it's tiered. Don't believe me? Check the graph here.

Apparently DD jobs are really hard to understand... Well, maybe for you. Seems like you have trouble with basic algebra, so I suppose it's possible =\
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-25 23:44:55
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it works for me lol its not 95% but its 91% so guess what? WHO CARES? if you are that much of an elitist enjoy being a masochist going for the best gear out there ^^
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 23:45:46
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So you admit you've got no ground to stand on at this point? You have room for improvement. If you don't take advantage of that fine, but don't act like you're right when you're not.
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-25 23:47:36
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Fenrir.Vausabant said:
yes there is a gain per each but a much bigger gain at 19 to 20, and when u actually get 75 on drg and can test then lets hear it since blu and drg arent exactly the same
(newhaste-oldhaste)/(1-newhaste)

Haste values in decimals. Show me how in that formula it's tiered. Don't believe me? Check the graph here.

Apparently DD jobs are really hard to understand... Well, maybe for you. Seems like you have trouble with basic algebra, so I suppose it's possible =\

and you are also a giant troll on ah forums ^^ but oh well, calcs are calcs and i trust my parses ^^
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 23:49:07
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Yes, I'm the troll here. lol
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-25 23:50:23
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
So you admit you've got no ground to stand on at this point? You have room for improvement. If you don't take advantage of that fine, but don't act like you're right when you're not.

every person has room for improvement there is no perfect gear out there and ill stand strong knowing how well i do, and i jumped into this topic cause it caught my eye saw someone down one of my favorite pieces of gear that works beautifully for what i do
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 23:53:34
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ACC+7 would be more beautiful still /shrug

Your loss, but it would still be best if you at least stopped trying to defend the inferior item. I don't care if you use it, I do care if you try and act like it's something it's not and thus spread misinformation.
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-26 00:01:47
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on drg with merited pole there is enough acc to support it, has worked for me, if i hadnt merited pole then ya 100% suggest the acc 7, the dbl attack % out weighs the 4% off cap acc. but you know what its late i have to work in the morning and really dont want this to go any further of a flame war good night
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-26 00:04:29
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lol the I'm busy and have to get up in the morning cop out. It's ok, we know you have no ground for your argument.
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 Fenrir.Vausabant
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By Fenrir.Vausabant 2010-05-26 00:08:26
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eat your chicken wing elitist ***and enjoy thinking you know all there is to being a dd ^^
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-26 00:09:36
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on drg with merited pole there is enough acc to support it, has worked for me, if i hadnt merited pole then ya 100% suggest the acc 7, the dbl attack % out weighs the 4% off cap acc. but you know what its late i have to work in the morning and really dont want this to go any further of a flame war good night
9->11% DA is 111/109=1.8% improvement to DPS before accounting for TP overflow. 91% hitrate to 94.5% hitrate is 94.5/91=3.85% increase with no losses since you're not exceeding accuracy cap.

The DA augment sucks unless you are already at capped accuracy or at least close enough that most of the acc from the legs is irrelevant.

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 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-26 00:23:08
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
eat your chicken wing elitist ***and enjoy thinking you know all there is to being a dd ^^

He clearly knows more than you.

Not to mention 2% DA doesn't even compare. Your ACC isn't capped, and I bet that 7 wouldn't even cap you. Please stop defending mediocrity.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-26 00:23:18
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Yes, I'm the troll here. lol

ITT: Math=Trolling
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 Sylph.Ixe
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By Sylph.Ixe 2010-05-26 00:25:54
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
lol the I'm busy and have to get up in the morning cop out. It's ok, we know you have no ground for your argument.
omfg the avy
Veg, you make me giggle :D
 Ragnarok.Flippant
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By Ragnarok.Flippant 2010-05-26 00:30:13
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
eat your chicken wing elitist ***and enjoy thinking you know all there is to being a dd ^^

I lol'd.

No but really, if your acc is so great, why are you using Peacock Charm? Does it help your Bibiki Shell hit better?
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-26 00:34:33
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
eat your chicken wing elitist ***and enjoy thinking you know all there is to being a dd ^^
I thought you were going to bed?
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 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2010-05-26 00:38:34
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Fenrir.Vausabant said:
eat your chicken wing elitist ***and enjoy thinking you know all there is to being a dd ^^

wow so mad
 Ragnarok.Flippant
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By Ragnarok.Flippant 2010-05-26 00:41:29
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k so let's take 1000 attack rounds and completely forget about even trying to compare haste and double attack (lol).

With double attack+2 on the pants, you've got about 87% accuracy as a Hume (you're Elvaan, so it'll be a tad less) without food/songs/roll. You'd also get, on average, 110 procs of DA for 1110 attacks total.

With acc+7 on the pants, you'd have 90% accuracy and, on average, 90 procs of DA for 1090 attacks total.

1110 * .87 = 965 hits landed
1090 * .90 = 981 hits landed

So Blitz Ring and Walahra Turban aside...are you really going to tell us that DA+2% is better than acc+7 when your acc is not capped?

And sorry if anyone's already gone through this math, just skimmed over most of the posts.
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-26 00:43:04
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He went to bed.

But yeah, it's been shown he's stupid. It's ok.
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By Artemicion 2010-05-26 00:50:34
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Paraphrased:
DA doesn't mean much if you aren't making assured contact which should be supplemented with haste as both yield vast increases to DPS including WS frequency and WS contact. It has been shown time and time again that DA has diminishing returns. You're better off lowering your delay and assuring your hit rate than relying on something that would absolutely depend on accuracy and delay reduction to give significant results in the first place.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-26 00:54:30
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than relying on something that would absolutely depend on accuracy and delay reduction to give significant results in the first place.

This is 100% wrong

2% DA will give the exact same increase to 20% hitrate (the minimum) as it would to 95% hitrate. Your hitrate has nothing to do with how much the DA will give you.
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By Artemicion 2010-05-26 00:55:44
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Well it wouldn't yield anything at all if you missed, despite it's static rate/chance of activation.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-26 01:00:16
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They are 100% independent of each other.

We swing 1000 times

A)20% hitrate
B) 95% hitrate
C) 20% hitrate 2% double attack
D) 95% hitrate 2% double attack


A) 1000 x .2 = 200 hits
B) 1000 x .95 = 950 hits
C) 1020(number of swings after DA) x .2 = 204 hits
D) 1020 (number of swings after DA) x .95 = 969 hits


2% DA increase to 20% acc, 204/200 = 2% increase
2% DA increase to 95% acc, 969/950 = 2% increase

What you gain from DA isn't dependent on your acc, they are totally individual to one another.
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By Artemicion 2010-05-26 01:03:03
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I understand that, but my point was: what good is an extra chance at swinging if your accuracy falls below the needs based on whatever you're fighting? This should rarely be the case but I'm sure you know what I mean.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-26 01:06:30
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K just reread what you wrote, you worded it really weirdly. I thought you were saying that DA was dependent on your acc
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By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-26 02:16:58
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Fenrir.Vausabant said:
yes there is a gain per each but a much bigger gain at 19 to 20, and when u actually get 75 on drg and can test then lets hear it since blu and drg arent exactly the same
(newhaste-oldhaste)/(1-newhaste)

Haste values in decimals. Show me how in that formula it's tiered. Don't believe me? Check the graph here.

Apparently DD jobs are really hard to understand... Well, maybe for you. Seems like you have trouble with basic algebra, so I suppose it's possible =\
My graph was better.
Shiva.Darkshade said:
That's interesting OP, but there is one fatal flaw that I would like to bring your attention to in the graph below.
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