Confederate History Month

I'm sure that I'm not the only person who's heard of the proposal by Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell to make it a celebration of that states heritage.

In a way I can relate as to why they want to celebrate it.
There's nothing more romantic than imagining a young, handsome and well mannered confederate captain hear of an impending attack on a plantation near his home, taking up his saber and charging off on his horse to thwart the attack.

Unfortunately, I think the same thing about a young SS officer hearing of the Red Army approaching a town and knowing of the horrors that await the women and children of that town. Their's something admirable about him going to defend him.


In my opinion the Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy should be remembered in the same regard as Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

Confederates believed that the negro socially, racially and physically were unequal to whites.

The Nazis felt the same about Jews, Gypsies and many other races.

To be fair there were many smaller arguments for the reasons for the confederacy.

so did the union and so did abraham lincoln sorry

Abraham Lincoln - Fourth debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858 : "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the White and black races, (Applause) - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurers of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, not to intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the White and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on equal terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race..."


look freeing the slaves was a political maneuver by abraham lincoln

england got cotton fom the south and it was assumed they would get their tacit support during the civil war

however england had already abolished slavery and by becoming the "side" who was fighting to end slavery

lincoln made it politically untenable for england to support the south by coming out and freeing only the slaves behind enemy lines, with no intent to free the slaves of those who fought on his side(done later by the republican congress for unrelated reasons)

let's not ***ourselves by pretending that the entire union was championing the cause of racial equality while the south was pure evil

it's tempting to try to lump people in history into easy categories, but the truth is a lot more complicated

neither side was a lot worse than the other, they just had conflicting interests

Good point. But do keep in mind the whole justification of slavery was built upon the belief the negro was inferior. And we all know the long history that happened and is still happening today.

I was reading the cornerstone speech by Alexander Hamilton Stephens.

In what could be called a recant (Some debate to this)


"My own opinion of slavery, as often expressed, was that if the institution was not the best, or could not be made the best, for both races, looking to the advancement and progress of both, physically and morally, it ought to be abolished. It was far from being what it might and ought to have been. Education was denied. This was wrong. I ever condemned the wrong. Marriage was not recognized. This was a wrong that I condemned. Many things connected with it did not meet my approval but excited my disgust, abhorrence, and detestation. The same I may say of things connected with the best institutions in the best communities in which my lot has been cast. Great improvements were, however, going on in the condition of blacks in the South. Their general physical condition not only as to necessaries but as to comforts was better in my own neighbourhood in 1860, than was that of the whites when I can first recollect, say 1820. Much greater would have been made, I verily believe, but for outside agitation. I have but small doubt that education would have been allowed long ago in Georgia, except for outside pressure which stopped internal reform."

and here i thought the whole justification of slavery was built on

my army can conquer yours {all right!} free labor!

and that slavery had been going on long, long before europeans discovered africa

gotta go to school, i'll check back later

Yes, even amongst the tribes in Africa themselves. I'm looking at a specific period in this country for the slaves that were already here. The international slave trade had been ended just after the turn of the century.

Uhh I think that would the be the biggest white conservative holiday in all of time. It makes me sick to see the flags, but to make a Holiday out of it? Repulsive.

Just because you see the stars and bars does not mean whoever is flying it hates any other race. Yea, alot of rednecks down here in the south and some of them give said flag a bad name but don't go off just cause somebody wants to fly one.

That being said, personally I think its time to put the damn flag to rest. Hell, most of my generation can't even handle it w/o getting in a huff. The ones coming up now definately can't handle it. We sure don't need a damn holiday out of it.

1st: "Yankee!"
2nd: I find the statement ironic.
3rd: I share the same feelings every February. Edit: Especially when I'm expected to "Pay them Back" or get talked down to from it.

Ending slavery was a side note and was not universally supported in the North. Not every Confederate supported slavery, owned slaves, or whatever, either.

And, good or bad, celebrating, remembering and learning about your history is a good thing. It's kind of tiring to see things like this shunned... "durr, slavery is bad... GTFO!!" Of course it is. So? That's more reason, in my opinion, to remember and celebrate.

I'm only against it because of the drama it's going to cause..

If you think this won't cause drama, just look at the *** over Resident Evil 5, for *** sakes, it took place in Africa, of course you were going to be shooting black zombies..

People are just too quick to call racism, if anyone lives near Houston then you should know this name well, Quarnell X, hate that ***.

I'll brace for the ignorance you're about to spew, but I'm game. Why do you get the same feeling every Black History Month?



This.



And this. Actually I believe only 1/3 of all Southerners owned slaves at that time. For example, at the time of the war, Robert E. Lee was on the fence regarding slavery, was opposed to secession, but went with the Confederacy only because Virginia seceded.

Plain and simple, the Civil War was about money, and to a lesser degree state's rights. The South had a lot of money due to free labor, the North wanted their fair share and backed by a greater voting population in the North imposed a higher taxation on the slave-based agricultural South as compared to the industrial North. The South would not be able to industrialize or get rid of slavery within a reasonable time period, so they seceded. The Federal Gov't having lost their primary source of money, went to take it back. Both sides used slavery as a PR piece.

Rather than creating a Confederate History month I would rather see an accurate account of the Civil War being taught in our schools, detailing the good and the bad that made up both sides during the conflict.

so you're saying america keeping blacks enslaved because they considered them inferior was bad? that racism in general is bad? Well... duh. i don't think anyone's going to argue that



this on the other hand smacks of someone who either slept through high school history or had an underqualified teacher. How did we get from this controversial, uninformed statement to the universal truism mentioned above it

I'm not too fond of 28(29) Days of every year being spent throwing "Civil Rights" and "Slavery" into my face, as if I'm supposed to be putting these "Heroes(And Heroines)" on a Pedestal, whilst simultaneously being ashamed because I share the same skin color as the "Oppressors" they fought so hard against.

I've got no problem with someone celebrating or recalling their heritage, so long as they keep it out of my face.

More toward the Subject, however, if there's a Black History Month, I don't see why there couldn't (shouldn't?) be one for Confederate History, or any other "History" for that matter. Hell, we only celebrate our Independence on one day. Personally, I'd consider that much more deserving of a month than "Blacks" or "Confederates."

Come to think of it, isn't there also a month for Breast Cancer Awareness? Perhaps we should set a couple months aside for Prostate Health?

You know how our society works.
If it's black only or Hispanic only or Asian only, it's okay.
White only? Racist.

Just look at high school/college clubs.
Almost every race has a club, but you can't have an all white club.

What's being thrown in your face for 28(29) days every year is OUR history. A history that is generally left out or glossed over in our educational system. Yes, despite the amount of time that is spent on slavery, the civil war, and the civil rights movement, it's not enough in relation to the how drastically these have affected our country, even into current issues. You can remove the quotations around the words Heroes and Heroines, because there were many, all while experiencing discrimination you can't even imagine. Their accomplishments, and the accomplishments of many other groups (those who have months, and those who don't) deserve to be taught just as much as the White Male history that gets taught all 12 months out of the year.

Do I expect you to personally feel guilty for slavery? Of course not. Do I feel that every American should be reminded of the fact 45 years ago my father couldn't use the same water fountain that your father or grandfather used, or had to pass a literacy test to vote? You're damn right. And if you think stuff like that's not important, maybe that speaks to greater issues about you. I mentioned above I'd be fine with a Confederate History Month; I'd much rather see history being taught accurately and equally, then we could do away with all of the months. But since apparently that's just a little too tough, we get history months.

National Prostate Health Awareness Month is September.

I remember an English class I had in high school. We had just read Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass. One of the kids in class spoke up: "I don't know what he's complaining so much about, I'd rather be a slave in America than a king in Africa ...".

So a kid in your English class made a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE statement about something he obviously had no clue about. Your point? Or was it simply to back up that the evils of slavery are not properly taught?

That kid sounds like every little white boy over Xbox Live, haha.

Sev is correct, Lincoln freed the slaves as a political maneuver.

The Civil war was fought over the issue of state rights and the dual sovereignty issue created by Federalism in the US; that the states and the federal government were both considered sovereign entities equal in power until after the Civil war.(Not going to get into the supremacy clause in the constitution.) Look at pre-Civil war cases such as Collector v Day in the Supreme Court.

The South likes to remember the Civil war not as for or against slavery, but as the states fighting for their right as an equal sovereign to the federal government. How slavery got mixed in was several northern white abolitionists wanted to free the slaves, and send them back to Africa (see Liberia), and tried to use the power of the federal government to do so. The southern states felt this was an infringement against their constitutionally protected rights and sovereignty. John Calhoun and Daniel Webster particularly had many battles on the Senate floor over this infringement on states rights. Lincoln himself suspended the rite of Habeas Corpus and held a majority of the Maryland government in prison the the entirety of the war, violating the Bill of Rights.

Slavery is ugly, but to think that it was the reason for the civil war is fallacy; states rights was the issue and that is what Virginia wants to remember.

Sorry Political Science/History buff.

KKK?



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Joking aside, I think it's simply a ploy to bring in the votes when it's time for the Virginia elections. It'll surely draw votes from supporters but also take away support from those who are offended by the proposal.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of material in terms of "heroes" and events will be offered as learning material in schools for the Confederate month.

*hugs*

i guess actually capitalizing and punctuating makes your post look a lot more credible. also going to law school ;_; i gotta try that after nursing gets old, like, the first day

This may sound harsh but I in no way intend it to be. Slavery was a horrible practice and should have never been condoned but rather than dwell on it, since you weren't the slave focus on what it brought about. Instead of growing up on the Ivory coast in Africa, dieing from aids, starving to death, getting body parts chopped off by rival tribes you live here in the United States. A chance at an education, a hopefully long and happy life and the ability to do whatever you aspire to. Again I think slavery was horrible but if those events never transpired do you think there would be a Barak Obama, Tiger Woods, Oprah Winfrey, Martin Luther King Jr., 80% of all professional atheletes. The list can go on and on forever. Im sure this isnt what the governor of VA was thinking but remember the ones who suffered through slavery (of course not on their own accord) because ultimately it could have been the seperation between all those great black individuals or a kid on one of those hunger commercials.

Well, you have to consider that Africa (as well as America) would be totally different places if slavery never took place.

I think America would be similar in regards to a chance at success. Odds are Africa would also be similar to what it is today. Again this is meant more as remember the past, remember their sacrafice and look to the future. I think its time for the animousity between races over this issues ends being the fact that none of us were there or had anything to do with it.

On a side not at the OP compareing useing somone to work for you, while usually providing shelter and food (Remeber not all slave owners were cruel some actually taught them to read and write)is a far cry from systematically exterminating and experimenting on millions of people.
Slavery=Bad /// Holocaust=Unmentionable Evil

I wouldn't say that America wouldn't be successful, but if all the mixed races didn't cause all the various diseases to spread and such, it wouldn't be so bad.

We'll never know unless we get a time machine.
...hmmm...

Lol yeah Time machine that be nice but only if it took you to an alternate reality and not the current time flow. Suck to sleep with your wifes mom or some ***and come back and she be your sister!

I like you Haseyo becuase you are civil in this discussion. Some pople would just barge in with profanities and racial slurs ect.

^This
It's completely unfair in this day and age to be a white male. Everything is "let's be fair to blacks, muslims, hispanics, asians, women, etc." but no one gives a *** about white males. I'm all for equality but not when every group is becoming equal to each other at the expense of another which seems to be the case when it comes to white males.

I'm not even white, but who gives a *** if they want to dedicate an entire month to Confederate History Month? Last I checked, Americans can pretty much do whatever the *** they want as long as its in the realm of the Constitution, which this is in.

If this bothers you, you're an idiot and really need to focus your concern elsewhere. This in no mean promotes racism, inequality, or anything else you may deem "offensive".

Hate to sound like a *** but get over it.

Supreme Court decided that anti-discrimination laws are there to protect historically disadvantaged classes. Being white and male you are a historically advantaged class, meaning that by definition of where and from whom you were spawned, you have a better chance of education opportunities, jobs and generally not being discriminated against. In a sense it is nearly impossible to discriminate against a WASP, have fun.