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Rdm/nin HNM Tanking Advice Can I Haz It? |
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Rdm/nin HNM tanking advice can i haz it?
Quote: 2. OLD: "Hmmm i'll wait till he attacks me again and slip an ichi in between attack rounds" NEW: "I'll cast now, possibly avoiding a hit and getting ichi recast started again that much faster." This seems like a benefit to SIR but overall pretty unnecessary unless the mob in question depletes shadows at an alarming rate. Quote: 3. I just claimed cerberus... solo... and the closest member is ten minutes away. No matter i'll just sit here shuffling shadows and stoneskin whilst spamming slow and cures till the LS shows up. (pop meds when low on mp) Can solo hold Cerb really easily even without this. Barely more difficult than a standard solo target (and you have Convert for low MP!) Well, you could be right. Been AGES since I fought Cerb but I don't remember him being particularly challenging (granted I have never tried to solo hold); how on earth do you make the inventory space for it? <_<
doesnt spell interruption rate have a hard cap of 50%?
Nope, can achieve 100% SID. Need 102% in gear/merits/Aquaveil to do it though.
1. 15 min Aquaveil ftw!
2. If you dont have firecarol available - i dont worry about equipping my barfire set (too inconsistent)- just go magic set till you have a brd around. (example is tiamat specific) Just to elaborate on what others have said about resist builds.
Basically they either work or don’t. If you can get enough resist for the mob in question then they are the most effective way of mitigating magic damage as a full resist will be near single digit damage. But if you fall short of the mark (even by a relatively small amount) then you will take nearly full damage. So unless you have a decent WHM (or cast your own Bars) a BRD and the right amount of gear, they aren’t worth it. Where as MDT/MDB builds work progressively, so as the set gets better you take less damage, but even 1 piece of Coral/Merman will start to reduce damage. They are nice an predictable and easy to evaluate, but at best you are only going to mitigate 50-60% of the damage (capped MDT = 50%, a bit of MDB can add up to another 10%). Holy *** Deadwing just gave me a massive hard-on. I *** knew I was right about Blind II way back when we had that argument, btw. Know your place ***.
At any rate, @Raen; Cerb does hit pretty hard, and at a high rate. Being able to hold it for 10 minutes solo is actually quite impressive. Then again, each his own. Hitting a spell and then letting spellcast do the rest isn't exactly what I consider "skilled", but I won't argue. MDT is pretty important and any serious tank should consider in getting one if they don't own one already. Who needs PLDs etc. Personally I haven't even meritted blind II. That being said I use blind all the time and it makes a noticeable difference on anything that doesn't cap acc on you to begin with no matter how much evasion gear you put on. Wonder if anyone has actuallly seriously tried to make blind II work. And then actually taken the time to try and figure out how well it did. Since it's not as obvious as say paralyze proccing or slower attack speed
Asura.Despayn said: Then again, each his own. Hitting a spell and then letting spellcast do the rest isn't exactly what I consider "skilled", but I won't argue. so its clear - spellcast makes your more efficient - that's all nothing more, spellcast is useless if the player has no or little "skill and experience"
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Isn't this discussion kinda... Dead, now? Any sort of serious tanking is going to be very difficult for RDM now, since they stripped our hate tools.
Fenrir.Graywolfe
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/sigh
Sorry, there wasn't a necro bump warning when I responed this, and haven't found a way to edit my previous remark. Anyways, previous statement can and should be ignored.
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Asura.Deadwing said: Stumbled upon this reading old forum posts, yes rdm tanking is dead. As to why they killed it, I've given it some thought and I think between the changes to aquaveil and added fast cast trait/gear they realized with rdm casting an uninterruptable ichi faster than paladin can cast an interruptible ni that rdm tanking would eventually eclipse their beloved paladin. I personally think they went about it the wrong way and should have changed the CE on the hate spells only for 75+. After-all a level 75 rdm tank would be harmless against their new higher level endgame stuff right? ^.- Anyway, its still possible to setup a level 1 (or 30) character in some places and spam low mp cures on him for hate. The character has to be within 20 yalms of the mob and also has to be safe which isn't an easy combo to find, really only possible at nidd tia and khim and I suppose absolute virtue... I dont really know any plds who have that much trouble putting up ichi Also since when was pld the best tank :O
Asura.Deadwing said: Anyway, its still possible to setup a level 1 (or 30) character in some places and spam low mp cures on him for hate. The character has to be within 20 yalms of the mob and also has to be safe which isn't an easy combo to find, really only possible at nidd tia and khim and I suppose absolute virtue... Yet the effort required to do that is pointless when you could just bring another job to tank. Asura.Deadwing said: Stumbled upon this reading old forum posts, yes rdm tanking is dead. As to why they killed it, I've given it some thought and I think between the changes to aquaveil and added fast cast trait/gear they realized with rdm casting an uninterruptable ichi faster than paladin can cast an interruptible ni that rdm tanking Which means the best you can do is get is 2 sec ichi and ni cast in 1 sec with 0 fast cast gear. Anyways while they only have lol enspell 2 and /nin spells for CE it doesn't mean you can't tank with help. Get dual rdm/nin tanks with a couple of blu/thfs or just low hate DDs (pet jobs) and it should work. This works well because not only does it require to extra effort (unless you count hitting TA with SA lol) but blu/thf and smn are often used good DDs on hard stuff anyways Could also RDM tank via cure cheats, Dasva. We all know RDM has access to massive -HP and +HP armor as well as decent +enmity armor, cure4, cure 3, convert.
Edit: not as good as pre-nerf, but it's still doable for those die-hard RDM tanks. Pretty sure that was discussed. It's horribly inefficient CE gain and will only get less efficient as time goes on. You'd burn through your entire MP pool very quickly and still be a ways off from CE cap.
Unless you had lower lvl mules and such to cure that you could keep out of AOE range but within curing range
Valefor.Lisamarie said: Could also RDM tank via cure cheats, Dasva. We all know RDM has access to massive -HP and +HP armor as well as decent +enmity armor, cure4, cure 3, convert. Edit: not as good as pre-nerf, but it's still doable for those die-hard RDM tanks. true, but its 1) horribly inefficient ce gain per cure as it is, and 2) its only going to become more inefficient as level cap goes up (ohi September) because enmity gain per cure goes down as the cure target goes up. there are no diehard rdm tanks, there are only foolish people keeping a dying art (and thread) alive. IF someone wanted to argue that it was still doable, they would either have to concede that its limited to highly controlled situations (blu/thf fights and a few others where rdm can get away with /pld or /drk), or rdm loses a ton of what made it attractive (can no longer fulltime terras). I think what made rdm most attractive was she shear survivibilty. Stoneskin was basically an extra shadow or 2. Could make can't be interrupted sets. Had enough fast cast to get ichi and other spells off alot easier not to mention it made capping -recast ALOT easier. It provided it's own slow II, haste, refresh para etc. Great -pdt and mdt sets not to mention MDB trait.
I mean it's hate wasn't the fastest but it got there and kept it. And it's lack of dmg taking helped prevent the loss. But yeah now it gets jack worth hate and under normal circumstances wont keep it at all. So basically needs blu or sam/thfs or like a lvl 10 mule that keeps equining 2 astral rings then a cassie earring to cure. Though I havent tested I'd imagine a rdm with access to Sanguine Blade should be able to tank similarly to how plds do now. Yeah no flash or jas but still has higher surivivability and can spam ws that if properly geared will do good dmg on harder targets kinda like atonement does for pld. Along with much more cure cheating than a pld could dream of. And now with the aquaviel update a rdm should never get interupted out of a ichi or stoneskin cast from just dmg. It takes alot more set up (and or ALOT more gearing) but in theory a rdm can still tank Not sure rdm could get the accuracy and attack needed to tank with sanguine blade but i suppose anything is possible. I doubt its going to hit 750 though :/
Cerberus.Eugene said: Not sure rdm could get the accuracy and attack needed to tank with sanguine blade but i suppose anything is possible. I doubt its going to hit 750 though :/ I have hit over 1k with it on blu without food day/weather or outside support. I've been doing 400-600 on it without doing things like using any kind of pertinent buff or debuff. I can make up a set and see what that should do. Actually I think I will |
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