Health Care Reform Passes

Actually it does interest me. But like I stated - "some." A lot of the plans for many of the native health care are complete crap - look at the Navajo for example. If you know much about their health care its crap, complete and utter crap. Most of the WW2 vets do not even get medical coverage. (Though thats in part due to US also.) But their health system is so screwed up - most haven't been able to get some of the few basic vaccinations.

I am lucky to be part of tribe that I happen to be in. I have learned a lot about the health care system - and its partly why I set my major to what is now. We're in a good location - we have UCLA medical center near us, that we have access to. As well as others. Yeah a lot of native health care is flawed, hugely I will add. But not all of them.

Wow, I am amazed you people dont even know what is in the bill or that we will start paying for it now, but wont be able to use get it till 2014.

The bill is 2000 pages long....

The government will tell doctors how much they are going to be paid. If a doctor has any specialties, he/she will be paid the same as the one without any.

Know what else was added to the bill. Only the government is able to issue student loans. No more private loans for Education.

If you refuse to pay for this, there will be penalties waiting for you when you file taxes. It will be $750 the first year and will keep going up.

You are forced to pay, even if you dont use it or dont want it.

^^ If this is true there is only one remedy for this, but it won't get done because like the rest of the world we are afraid of our government and we don't stick together like we used to, most of us still have our guns, but not for long....

This is kind of what i was saying a few pages back. Though a violent revolution is extremely unlikely. What will happen is the democrats will lose power for passing this, the republicans will regain it, do something equally infuriating to a majority of the people and Dems go back in.

Its pretty much an endless cycle, though with the Tea Party movement maybe there is some hope of ending it.

Who knows.

I am very fortunate to live in am extrodinary time where something like this can happen. The only thing I can think of that's going to top it is the tsunami backlash that will come in November when we finaly kick out of congress these arogant socialist lumatics!

This thing is a disaster! Everyone's premiums will go through the roof next year as insurance companies will no longer be able to deny coverage to people who are too costly to insure. Everyone else now must pay for them. Oh and now my tax dollars are now going to pay for other people's abortions. I can feel real good about that.

Thanks Obama!! Can't wait to vote against you again!!

I look at it this way, even if I don't agree with this universal healthcare(btw, I have medical insurance I pay for), on the bright side 30+ million people are going to get health care that don't have it. It's hard not to love and hate this considering the amount of people it helps, and the fact that I don't want to have to change the way my medical care works.

Really up a creek without a paddle on this.

I read somewhere about the things you listed here.
But I wasn't sure how reliable the sources were. Some of the other things I read were:
- About the death panels
- That the tax payers will also be paying for all non us citizens illegal or otherwise
- Government committee that decides the treatments and benefits you receive
- The health care commissioner will choose your benefits for you
- The government will have real time access to individuals finances
- The government will have direct access to your bank account for elective funds transfer
- Government is creating healthcare exchange to bring private healthcare plans under government control - government mandates all benefit packages for the private healthcare exchange
- AARP members healthcare will be rationed
- No company can sue the government price fixing, and no judicial review on government monopoly.
- Any individual who does not have acceptable healthcare according to the government will be taxed 2.5% - any nonresident alien is exempt from individual tax

Like I sated - its just something I read, and wasn't even sure it was reliable - but just seeing what was possibly out there.
If I was wrong on any - please let me know. Not sure myself how long it will be to verify the sources.

Oh, noes!! Health care reform passed! This is the end of America as we know it!! *Rolls her eyes then goes back to bed*

Edited to add: Anyone who thinks this is the start of socialism is ignorant, plain and simple. Social programs are a necessity in any society...try taking them all away, and then you'll have REAL problems. They are part of life. Build a bridge, and get over it.

I don't know if this was pointed out (I stopped reading at page 3, it was so full of ***) but has anyone realized a few fun facts about the US healthcare that we has before this bill was passed?

1) The US Research and Development portion of health services was the best in the nation. Who paid for it? Some of it was the government yes, but yet, it was the consummer who paid for a good chunk of it. People complained about the cost of healthcare, but they don't realize that it is not all going into doctor's pockets (not directly). Most of it was going to go towards research and development of new drugs (hint hint, thats how the pharma companies make money). Now that we are telling doctors and hospitals that you can't charge more than XXX amount of dollars, where is that going to take the biggest hit from? You guessed it, R&D.

2) People from other countries come to America to get much much better healthcare. It doesn't matter if your healthcare is free in your country, ***healthcare is ***healthcare. Thats why rich people in France, Italy, Canada, Chili, Brazil, Equador, hell, any socialistic country comes to the USA to get their services. Take away the service, there goes a lot of revenue.

3) Profit drives innovation. It also drives competence. Tell doctors that they can't make any money from treating you, and they won't care about you, which would lower the service and healthcare you receive. You can't sue the doctor if they left a glove in your stomache, because you are really suing the government, and the government always wins. The doctors are now part of the whole government, and that will lead to more bureaucracy where it doesn't belong. Do you really want to wait 10 hours for some middle management to decide if your bullet wound in your gut is worth 5000 of the taxpayer's money?

4) Last point, the whole care for others may now be gone, and so will the speed it takes to treat people in an emergancy. You won't be a person, you will be a digit. Your number depends on when you get treated, and by which doctor, and by what time. You will no longer have a choice in what you want to do, you are completely dependent on the government to do the thinking for you. Do you really want this last freedom taken away from you?

I don't.

Instead of going back to bed, maybe get a job so you will feel the effects of this first hand ;)

Don't worry, the rest of your post isn't much better !

I don't know about other countries, but the only people I have ever heard of going to the US is for either:
a) A cosmetic procedure, the US plastic surgery is some of the best in the world and most 'socialist' countries don't pay for elective surgery.

b) Getting something that isn't offered in their original country. EG a drug treatment that hasn't been authorised in their country of origin (yet).

Neither of those are really points to boast about, or indicators of 'much better heathcare'. But yes they are a source of revenue for certain hospitals and clinics.

Responding to Frobeus waaaay back on page 2, who responded to my mention of Japan's healthcare system and why it is an example of socialized healthcare working.
If you're asking me who's lazier on a national level, yeah, probably Americans. But that doesn't mean there aren't lazy people in Japan, and they get taken care of too.
Anyway, that's not the point. Even if someone is a "leech," that doesn't mean they deserve to suffer or be kept in debt and poverty should they ever get sick. No citizen deserves that.

The talk about the education bill that has gotten thrown in here is off track and likewise people have it wrong because they don't understand how student loans actually work: the government already pays the money for student loans... all of them. Banks get paid by the government to make these loans using taxpayer money. The new bill ends subsidies to banks and makes education more affordable and more or less cuts out a lot of the middleman BS. So folks here in the US just got more affordable healthcare and more affordable education into the bargain.

This is what I voted my congressmen and president to do. People who can't see beyond the ideological hogwash that's getting passed around to see what a good thing this is going to be should wake up and smell the rubbing alcohol. In the long run, this is going to make for a healthier and smarter nation.

jesus christ i had a nightmare last night, which i just remembered when reading this thread x,x
i dreamed that since i didnt want to pay for healthcare for illegal aliens, the kids down the street, and my own sick butt, and lots and lots of white/black trash.... that the government just charged it to my ffxi bill ><; i started cryign when i had to pay 199 or somethin a month to play, and i actually paid it;; i remember being scared shtless.

People come to America for certain surgeries that are not cosmetic in practice.

San Antonio, Texas has the best heartcare specialities and research/development in the world (being near San Antonio, I heard that alot, Texans like to boast their achievements alot, so I don't doubt their statements) so I'm sure that if you have a heart disease and want the best possible treatment, and you are rich enough to do it, you would go to San Antonio to do it. I know this is the case because Santa Rosa has a special department for International patients, and they are a children's hospital!

I don't know about the details of healthcare compared to the rest of the world (I doubt there is much actual stats in the case, its all "he said, she said" boasting in my opinion) but several doctors and healthcare workers who visit other countries have told me, in person (my professor is the Chairman of the Board of my town's medical center, and he goes to seminars all over the world for new and improved medical treatments, so I believe what he says) that they rather be treated in America than in anywhere else in the world.

Although I can't prove this (all opinions, and I have no way in proving what I was told in person) but I'm just stating what my opinion on this subject is, based by what I see and thought about.

People do come to America to get better treatment. The government is taking it away, thinking that this will solve the "healthcare crisis" we are currently having.

Pretty easy for me. Helping other people out should be a choice. There is no such thing as a free lunch. In the end someone is paying for it and making someone pay for someone else is like this is inheritently against everything the founding fathers stood for

I <3 my city. :D

Why do you think Americans go up to canada to buy prescriptions?

That's an easy one. It takes forever to get things approved over here. Our drug trials and testing and such is rediculously higher than almost any country out there. Which also cost alot which gets passed on to the consumer until some time when the pharmecutical company has recouped there losses plus some

Correction: Because it's so God-damned expensive.

Yeah, why wait 5-6 years for a drug that is known to be effective and won't kill you or turn you purple.

You can get it in Canada for half the cost, and for a bonus, your *** falls off from a side effect!

Not reading all 9 pages, but in regards to "America having the best healthcare", what good is it to measure the quality of healthcare if millions can't afford to take advantage of it?

Wow.. you are as dumb as everyone says you are....

I'm talking about actual drugs that have been used for years and years. Not Experimental Drugs ETC

Um...

Learn2read, k?

What does not giving free hand outs have to do with the measure of any quality?

Are you gunna say that we have horrible gaming or technology because not everyone has a PS3. Maybe we should give those away too.

Or for something a little more related maybe we should just freely house and feed everyone. Yay. Go ahead if you think this is a good idea. Pay for it out of your pocket. Not mine.

And you are dumb for not realizing that that ***takes alot of time and money. You think the drug companies are just going to eat that loss up out of the kindness of there hearts?

They are a business and business only give ***out for free for tax breaks and publicity.

People go to mexico for drugs like that too, but half the time you don't the crap you bought lol

That, my friend, is the whole point of this healthcare bill problem.

I don't want to pay for some bum on the street who doesn't even try to get a job to have a nosejob, or some drug addict to get a bullet out of his arm so he can continue doing what he does best.

I don't want to pay for slackers or detraments to society to do what they do to become who they are.

But they are the "uninsurred" so its my duty to pay for their sorry ***.

I don't know about anyone here, but thought i'd share.

Hope Obama has a plan, and this thing does work. I know that the sick and the elderley will eat the coffers up and within 4 years, I can see something happening.

This bill will gradually give the federal government almost limitless control over the population of this nation. When the funding runs out, and it will...people are going to be turned away from receiving the health care they need to survive. Talented citizens thinking about going into the medical profession for profit will go into other professions for their livelihoods. Would you endure the 6-figure student loan debt and social sacrifice of being a doctor without substantial compensation? So we have the perfect storm of eventual tyranny, dramatic professional abandonment of the medical profession, LESS medical care for everyone...yes, LESS even for the poor people, AND the inevitable bankruptcy of the nation. The future just got ugly and history proves that this is the road we are now on. The ffxi update looks cool though! xD