One more step towards socialism. America is going down the gutter with Obama.
I'm Canadian and we have socialized medicine here. I think it would be a huge improvement if the USA had a better healthcare system. lol
Not to sound like a troll, but if it's so good up there, why did 2-3 of my friends from Canada spend so much time trying to get surgery, and ultimately they each ended up getting treated in America?
Spend time surgery?
Too much lack of detail. Could you further explain what happened?
It's like this you see; Insurance > Surgery > If they can't help you they send you to another "specialized" hospital.
I really don't understand what you're trying to say with "trying to get surgery".
Do you mean the long waiting lines?
EDIT: You do sound like a troll, because you throw out indiviual cases with barely any desription.
Why do you think so many Canadians travel to the United States to receive medical care
Only on page 7 of this so far, but as a Canadian, a lot of people requiring special treatments travel to the US because before this new health care bill it was faster to pay for treatment and get it within the month in the US, then wait up to a year or more in Canada and get it paid for by our health care system. You will now start seeing what we do... 26hours in the emergency room lying on a gurney waiting for a doctor to see you because you have pneumonia. Even in smaller communities emergency room wait times are reaching 10 hours for something as simple as stitches. Which if people aren't aware of, there is a limited amount of time where stitching a wound is effective.
Only benefit I can see with this health care bill, is our Canadian nurses and doctors that moved to work in the US because of a higher pay potential may return to Canada. Leaving you with an even larger shortage and longer wait times.
The extra 50 million people this bill is designed to insure a majority of them will now have to choose between housing and food or health insurance. How is that fair to them? For the others this bill will make it so those that have survived cancer or have another pre-existing condition will be insured at a decent rate of insurance. Those are the only people who will benefit from this new bill.
So, can I come and live with you now? pretty please
@people that compain that hospitals are charging too much and that doctors make too much money...
I agree in principle, but let's digress for a moment, could the educational system be in part responsible? Why does the cost of schooling have to be so F-ing high? To become a doctor you are looking at 8-11 years of school, and 6 figures of student loans. WTF is that all about? answer? EVERYONE is greedy.
Universities want more money to educate people
Doctors want more money to fix people
We want more money for whatever reason.
My wife says that in Colombia you can become a doctor after 3-4 years and do the same things our doctors here can do in 12 years. So while I do think Doctor's and hospitals charge too much, I think we need to dig deeper into the problem...
Yeah.. sure.. Justify it however you want.. we are far from free.. we are not represented and we continuously harm people with threats of violence and actual violence while declaring we are the most free idiots on earth. We are blind, stupid, and fat. (fat because of trade tariffs on sugar cause us to use corn syrup that is harder for some people to digest) Take the test some day man.. just try it out a little.. feel the bite.
Oh ***bro this is too real and scarey they goint to tear you down you know the masses want to stay ignorant. What the hell is this conspiracy ***.. GTFO ^^ NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
To be honest, thats all just one opinion on the history of the world.
If you really believe that, then I feel sorry for you.
Why? I have a great life. The truth has a way of making everything in life clear.. you begin to know what is important in life. I feel a little sorry for those still trapped in the matrix.. but some will wake up.. just like I did.
Why? I have a great life. The truth has a way of making everything in life clear.. you begin to know what is important in life. I feel a little sorry for those still trapped in the matrix.. but some will wake up.. just like I did.
I'm curious how you live outside of these human livestock farms.
Explain then, why you don't think this would be a disaster. Explain why you don't think the economy will drop out from all the taxation caused from this? Explain why you don't think that companies will go out of businesses because they can't afford to keep up with all these new taxes they have to pay? Side note of this question, actually look at the bill, they have to pay 2 more taxes for each employee because of this, one for the insurred, and one for the uninsurred. Explain why you don't think this won't cause a higher unemployment rate, or that companies, in order to survive, have to lay off people to pay for this new tax. Explain why you think the government is actually responsible to say what medicine you should take, how much of it, and who you should go see. Explain why you think this is a good idea to limit research and development from medical companies by taxing them higher just because they have to charge more to pay for the R&D. Please, explain it all to me.
It will affect the economy, nobody said it wouldn't. Did you forget the HEALTH part? Could help a little bit fixing a problem called Obesity. I heard it's a big health problem in america!
your not gonna get skinny going to the damn hospital.. why are ppl so retarted?? plus Obesity isnt as "big" of a problem as the NEWS would have u think... once again, cant ppl think for themselves anymore?
Dude.. you live in a closet? Heart Disease is the Number 1 killer of Americans.... Obesity is a BIG problem.. (no Pun intended)
I feel a little sorry for those still trapped in the matrix.. but some will wake up.. just like I did.
Tell me Morpheus, where can I find the blue pill?
Why, you want to stay in the matrix? That's like saying you wish to remain ignorant. :P
I got several responses. Maybe I hit a nerve ehh.. I'll tell ya.. the last thing you want to do is actually think about it.. just label me as "crazy" or something.. than you can dismiss it.
I don't waste my time going to church or voting that's for one.. lol. I live free in my mind. I do what is right not because there is a law.. but because it's the right thing to do or because it's a good idea. My actions have purpose related to my aims in life, not because I am forced to do it. I strive to be moral at all times, and people whom know me but I don't know well tell me all the time that they respect me.. sometimes I think that's funny but I just try to be my own person.. It's really not hard to reject using force on people.
Why are we arguing about obesity in the health care thread? Most obesity issues aren't even a health care issue but rather a self control, can't-put-down-the-cheeseburger-and-get-off-my-fat-*** issue. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that DO have medical issues linked with obesity but a good portion of it isn't even medically relevant. Those people need to go to a god damn gym, not a hospital.
Why are we arguing about obesity in the health care thread? Most obesity issues aren't even a health care issue but rather a self control, can't-put-down-the-cheeseburger-and-get-off-my-fat-*** issue. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that DO have medical issues linked with obesity but a good portion of it isn't even medically relevant. Those people need to go to a god damn gym, not a hospital.
Might become relevant.
Will you march in the street if government mandates weight programs? Nahh.. I already know you won't. lol
Oh, I won't say if I agree or disagree with you, a forum for an MMO is hardly the place for a political discussion, but that's just my opinion.
Your wording to support your argument however was hilarious, I always found phrasing like that kinda fun, just a personality quirk of mine (which isn't carried by everyone I'm sure).
@people that compain that hospitals are charging too much and that doctors make too much money...
I agree in principle, but let's digress for a moment, could the educational system be in part responsible? Why does the cost of schooling have to be so F-ing high? To become a doctor you are looking at 8-11 years of school, and 6 figures of student loans. WTF is that all about? answer? EVERYONE is greedy.
Universities want more money to educate people
Doctors want more money to fix people
We want more money for whatever reason.
My wife says that in Colombia you can become a doctor after 3-4 years and do the same things our doctors here can do in 12 years. So while I do think Doctor's and hospitals charge too much, I think we need to dig deeper into the problem...
This is an addition to the problem. There are many of them. I think All in all change is/was needed. Whether or not this is what we need we will find out in the coming years, but it seems that people who are not far right or far left can see that admitting there is a problem is the first step to a solution. I really want more input from [Level headed] people on either side. Not the people that say this is doomsday/Communism or the people that think this will fix everything and now I'll learn how to ***rainbows.
What can we address in the coming years that will improve this or make it more user friendly. For the naysayers, this has been rammed up your *** whether you like it or not, what would you want to add/fix to at least give it some lube?
@people that compain that hospitals are charging too much and that doctors make too much money...
I agree in principle, but let's digress for a moment, could the educational system be in part responsible? Why does the cost of schooling have to be so F-ing high? To become a doctor you are looking at 8-11 years of school, and 6 figures of student loans. WTF is that all about? answer? EVERYONE is greedy.
Universities want more money to educate people
Doctors want more money to fix people
We want more money for whatever reason.
My wife says that in Colombia you can become a doctor after 3-4 years and do the same things our doctors here can do in 12 years. So while I do think Doctor's and hospitals charge too much, I think we need to dig deeper into the problem...
Aha, but schooling is only a tenth of what they pay.
Ever hear of Malpractice Insurance? Forget $250/month health insurance for a family, Malpractice insurance can run into four digits a month! At least a third of any practitioner's income goes into Malpractice insurance anymore.
See how this works? Insurance companies drive up Malpractice insurance costs, Insurance companies make more money. Doctors drive up medical costs to pay their malpractice insurance, insurance companies make more money. Persons eventually requiring medical care pay more for coverage on the higher doctor/hospital visit costs, insurance companies make more money.
In some states, Malpractice insurance is mandated like Auto insurance... guess who lobbied for it?
Why are we arguing about obesity in the health care thread? Most obesity issues aren't even a health care issue but rather a self control, can't-put-down-the-cheeseburger-and-get-off-my-fat-*** issue. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that DO have medical issues linked with obesity but a good portion of it isn't even medically relevant. Those people need to go to a god damn gym, not a hospital.
Might become relevant.
Will you march in the street if government mandates weight programs? Nahh.. I already know you won't. lol
I'd actually be all for it. People shouldn't be allowed to eat themselves into oblivion and then expect others to compensate for them. "Duh... why are these chairs so small? I demand bigger chairs to accommodate my 200lb *** cheeks."
As I said, if it's an actual medical problem, please by all means see a doctor but if it's something you caused yourself and you know you caused it yourself, go do yourself a favor and call Jenny Craig.
I feel a little sorry for those still trapped in the matrix.. but some will wake up.. just like I did.
Tell me Morpheus, where can I find the blue pill?
Why, you want to stay in the matrix? That's like saying you wish to remain ignorant. :P
I got several responses. Maybe I hit a nerve ehh.. I'll tell ya.. the last thing you want to do is actually think about it.. just label me as "crazy" or something.. than you can dismiss it.
I don't waste my time going to church or voting that's for one.. lol. I live free in my mind. I do what is right not because there is a law.. but because it's the right thing to do or because it's a good idea. My actions have purpose related to my aims in life, not because I am forced to do it. I strive to be moral at all times, and people whom know me but I don't know well tell me all the time that they respect me.. sometimes I think that's funny but I just try to be my own person.. It's really not hard to reject using force on people.
K, so you're free in your mind ... got ya.
You are still a cow in a human livestock farm. You just imagine you are some how more free than the rest of us cows.
Cow: "mmmm this grass is the best stuff ever!! ^^"
Enlightened Cow: "That's what they want you to think man! I say eat whatever grass you want man! And *** the farmer!"
Cowboy watching the cows eat: "Well that one over there never eats with the rest of the cows ... kinda funny 'cause they're all gonna taste like steak anyway!"
Ever hear of Malpractice Insurance? Forget $250/month health insurance for a family, Malpractice insurance can run into four digits a month! At least a third of any practitioner's income goes into Malpractice insurance anymore.
While they have increased dramatically over the past decades, medical malpractice premiums still make up less than 2% of average health provider expenses.
If you guys are going to quote statistics in favor or against either side, it's best to provide a link or reference for the reader to fact-check it for themselves.
Why are we arguing about obesity in the health care thread? Most obesity issues aren't even a health care issue but rather a self control, can't-put-down-the-cheeseburger-and-get-off-my-fat-*** issue. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that DO have medical issues linked with obesity but a good portion of it isn't even medically relevant. Those people need to go to a god damn gym, not a hospital.
Might become relevant.
Will you march in the street if government mandates weight programs? Nahh.. I already know you won't. lol
I'd actually be all for it. People shouldn't be allowed to eat themselves into oblivion and then expect others to compensate for them. "Duh... why are these chairs so small? I demand bigger chairs to accommodate my 200lb *** cheeks."
As I said, if it's an actual medical problem, please by all means see a doctor but if it's something you caused yourself and you know you caused it yourself, go do yourself a favor and call Jenny Craig.
: sigh :
Well I've explained to you that force is wrong.. you.. seem to just disagree or enjoy using force on others, and want to use more force on them.. so yeah.. that's a pretty discussing thing to say.
I think your barbaric and I wouldn't have anything to do with someone like you.. you should get a job as a prison guard so you can hurt people all day to your own sadistic pleasure.
I feel a little sorry for those still trapped in the matrix.. but some will wake up.. just like I did.
Tell me Morpheus, where can I find the blue pill?
Why, you want to stay in the matrix? That's like saying you wish to remain ignorant. :P
I got several responses. Maybe I hit a nerve ehh.. I'll tell ya.. the last thing you want to do is actually think about it.. just label me as "crazy" or something.. than you can dismiss it.
I don't waste my time going to church or voting that's for one.. lol. I live free in my mind. I do what is right not because there is a law.. but because it's the right thing to do or because it's a good idea. My actions have purpose related to my aims in life, not because I am forced to do it. I strive to be moral at all times, and people whom know me but I don't know well tell me all the time that they respect me.. sometimes I think that's funny but I just try to be my own person.. It's really not hard to reject using force on people.
K, so you're free in your mind ... got ya.
You are still a cow in a human livestock farm. You just imagine you are some how more free than the rest of us cows.
Cow: "mmmm this grass is the best stuff ever!! ^^"
Enlightened Cow: "That's what they want you to think man! I say eat whatever grass you want man! And *** the farmer!"
Cowboy watching the cows eat: "Well that one over there never eats with the rest of the cows ... kinda funny 'cause they're all gonna taste like steak anyway!"
Are you saying you agree with me? lol And at least I don't eat the ***they feed me too. Right?
Sounds like we have dozens of economics amongst us.
Amazing how everyone's suddenly an expert, no?
What's equally amazing (and a little depressing) is that due to the state of the country's politics, judging by how someone responds in this thread, I can probably tell you what news stations they watch, and what their views on gun control, abortion, global warning, drugs, foreign policy, religion, etc are with surprising accuracy.
Has anyone on either side stopped to wonder why their opinions on such diverse and (ideally) completely unrelated topics are so predictable? If that doesn't scare you, it should.
Since my attempts to lighten the mood keep getting rated down, here, have a more "serious" post.
Ripping each other to pieces over something that hasn't even actually happened yet (people are already trying to overturn things as I type) won't change a thing. This country is already torn against one another on so many issues and to me it's really scary and sad how people are treating each other over it.
I can understand people from other countries posting on here essentially pointing and laughing at our "archaic ways", but I found it interesting when people from the same countries responded that actually their health care wasn't that great pretty much went unreplied to. I stopped reading after a while so forgive me if I'm wrong and this did happen.
I don't really have a political affiliation, but my parents are fairly conservative and most of my friends are pretty liberal. After hearing both sides of the story that they've taken from various news media sources, none of it really adds up.
The humanist part of me feels badly for the honest people that are down on their luck and I'm happy that they might benefit from this.
The realistic part of me feels that many other people WILL take advantage of this.
The born and raised American part of me thinks that being "forced" to pay other people's way is wrong, because at a very young age I was taught that life is what you make of it in this country. That's what I think some of you non US people posting on here don't really get. This is something that has been ingrained into us from a very young age. It doesn't make us heartless, it doesn't mean we don't want to help the less fortunate. It's just our way of life and when that way of life is threatend to be altered, it's alarming to us.
My mom came over from Germany when she was 4 with my uncle and my grandparents. they didn't have a penny to their name and they couldn't speak English. Within a few more years they bought their own house my grandpa had his own company and he was still able to support the 4 more kids that came along. That's what the American Dream was...now..eh.. yeah we've pretty much all woken up at this point.
I personally feel like instead of a tax hike, they should make some sort of donation fund. That way all of the bleeding heart people can donate as much money as they want, and all of the people who don't want to be "forced" can still donate money if they decided to. A put your money where your mouth is type of thing :P
Why are we arguing about obesity in the health care thread? Most obesity issues aren't even a health care issue but rather a self control, can't-put-down-the-cheeseburger-and-get-off-my-fat-*** issue. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that DO have medical issues linked with obesity but a good portion of it isn't even medically relevant. Those people need to go to a god damn gym, not a hospital.
Might become relevant.
Will you march in the street if government mandates weight programs? Nahh.. I already know you won't. lol
I'd actually be all for it. People shouldn't be allowed to eat themselves into oblivion and then expect others to compensate for them. "Duh... why are these chairs so small? I demand bigger chairs to accommodate my 200lb *** cheeks."
As I said, if it's an actual medical problem, please by all means see a doctor but if it's something you caused yourself and you know you caused it yourself, go do yourself a favor and call Jenny Craig.
: sigh :
Well I've explained to you that force is wrong.. you.. seem to just disagree or enjoy using force on others, and want to use more force on them.. so yeah.. that's a pretty discussing thing to say.
I think your barbaric and I wouldn't have anything to do with someone like you.. you should get a job as a prison guard so you can hurt people all day to your own sadistic pleasure.
Barbaric? Hardly. Do you enjoy staring at the beached whales that parade up and down our streets spouting about how they're fat and proud of it all the while collecting disability for something that could easily be cured if they actually tried? I certainly don't. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything the rest of the population is already doing on their own. We force alcoholics and drug users into rehabs. Why not force obese people into rehab as well? Sure they're not a danger to society like alcoholics and druggies but they pass themselves off as being disabled and expect the world to treat them with respect and make their lives easier for them. Come on...
The only way to your promise land of anarchy -- the end of human livestock ownership -- is with a clinched fist.
Any change in leadership -- real change -- comes with a fight.
However, if ending up as steak just like everyone else is fine with you then yeah I guess keep on trucking. I admire your contentment; I couldn't be happy just making choices based on my own moral sail if I was still bound by laws I don't agree with. If the farmer still has the power to slaughter me, what does it matter what I eat?
Sounds like we have dozens of economics amongst us.
Amazing how everyone's suddenly an expert, no?
What's equally amazing (and a little depressing) is that due to the state of the country's politics, judging by how someone responds in this thread, I can probably tell you what news stations they watch, and what their views on gun control, abortion, global warning, drugs, foreign policy, religion, etc are with surprising accuracy.
Has anyone on either side stopped to wonder why their opinions on such diverse and (ideally) completely unrelated topics are so predictable? If that doesn't scare you, it should.
As a red-name, I'm not going to take sides either way. Regardless, it will most certainly be seen as a landmark decision in US politics for a long time to come.
