Best Mage

You seem to have forgot the point, which was that I can match or beat my own BLM so I can certainly do the same with yours.

And you seem to misunderstand. If you care enough, prove it to yourself. I, on the other hand, have already proven it to myself and don't care enough to prove it to anyone else. I'm just having a good time watching people let themselves get trolled.

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

I have proven to myself that reading Nezea's posts is a waste of time.

edit: @maverick, :)

I lol'd

even though I do plan to play as 99drk/49rdm

Well.
it seems that SCH beats WHM

SCH and RED seems equal

and as for blm. SCH wins.

SCH beats WHM? How was that determined? lol

When a SCH can cure V many times for no hate, haste, devotion and Raise III then I'll say they win. Until then WHM > SCH

Also, no one addressed my point on MP efficiency, as far as I can tell.

BLU gets hateless nukes.

if your point is MP efficiency, then pup owns all.
Whitemage puppet: has access to cure5 and regen3 , and mp never run out due to deactivate and activate (full mp)
Blackmage puppet: has access to all tier 4 nukes except thunder, and i have nuked for 2.5k+ with it already. for mp,just deactivate and call again.
redmage puppet is a mix of both, and their tier 3 nukes can do up to 1200 dmg. mp: see above

if you want to start flaming over mp efficiency, the other jobs dont nearly stand a chance.

and btw, any mage job running out of mp without recovery tool up either sucks, or has crappy DD's .
only place where scholars "conserve mp" shines is : when they solo! but then, i dont care one bit about that. a blm in best gear will always deal more damage then a sch in best gear on the same nuke except for resist. a WHM will never lose his slot in endgame to a scholar and a redmage laughs at scholar enfeebles and flexibility. but!
SCH heals better then a RDM, nukes better then a WHM and enfeebles better then a BLM. that you can say, and noone will not agree with you.

/nod

You can say whatever you want, but it doesn't change the facts with respect to SCH versus each job. If you want a job that can fill multiple roles in a situation that is not so demanding that Arts timers are an issue and you don't need the unique abilities of WHM, RDM, or BLM, then sure, SCH wins. As it is, you're just spouting blanket nonsense and trying to pass it off as facts.

Hell of an informative thread when the OP opens and closes with the same foolishness with no regard for the evidence presented in between.

What's the most important stat in the game these days?

I think it starts with and "H" and ends in an "E".

And until level 80+ happens, it can only be cast by 2 jobs.

SCH may well be the best at doing lots of things, but it is only worth putting in once you have haste covered (which means BRD + RDM or WHM).

(I feel bad for perpetuating this thread though, this SCH > BS needs to end)

What?

Go back to lvling your sj.

I'm just here to say, my 61 brd/blm nuked with fire for like 3k dmg.

I was using etudes naturally.

I've proven it to myself, I don't need a SS.

Also nezea:



I don't think there has ever been more of an appropriate time for this.

From my own experience with SCH and RDM i can tell:

both are very good - the situation decides which one is superior, period.

For example (bolded for rantreasons):

Dynamis - SCH wins handsdown. Stoneskinga, Enspells and whatnot (im not listing everything here) and being able to protectra, shellra and curaga(!!!) other parties in your alliance at any time is just pure win. SCH can easily focus on keeping everyone in the alliance alive while even enhancing his/her own party defensive aswell as in an offensive way:

SCH + event with a lot ppl = win


On the other hand:

Nyzul Isle - RDM is superior to SCH since you have ppl that needs special care, enemies that needs special care, need to control the situation (sleeping, superior debuffing) and on top of that focusing on the strategy and keep the important members alive. Refresh and Haste are essential, time is running against u and u need them for those "oh sh*t"-situations - simple as that.

RDM + the necessity to focus on one party = win


If i summarize it, for me SCH is a job that considers the whole battlefield due to being able to -aga other and his party a lot and RDM is a job that focuses on keyparts like paladins mp, enemy debuffs, Haste.

I dont say that one of them cant fullfill more or less, theese are just the parts i see them the most.

Dynamis - SCH: RDM performs better in both a buffing and enfeebling capacity. Sleepga and... what are those buffs called... Oh yeah, Haste and Refresh. SCH is good given Phalanxga and alliance-wide C4ga, but only once you have enough mages in place to Haste and Refresh all who need it, at which point odds are you're covered for healing anyway. Now if you'd said mob holding in Einherjar... given the amount of undead potentially present you'd potentially have an argument for SCH given Bindga and Graviga.

Stoneskinga isn't even worth casting. Phalanxga ftw.

no, segaia.

In a nutshell: no
Enmity, hp/mp ratio, the fact that it is even more usefull together with phalanx and that it prevents dmg (other than directly need to heal dmg via cure) will always make it worthwhile to cast and is highly adviseable. I have never seen a situation where it wasnt - especially in terms of high damage income.


buffing: yes - as you mentioned Haste and Refresh, but there are more buffs than theese two in the game even if those 2 are considered the top.

enfeebling: singletarget yes - in efficiency and effect - no need to argue, on a larger range no - nothing what you didnt tell, just agreeing.

sleeping: RDM has Sleep, Sleep II and Sleepga, SCH has sleep and sleep II aswell but both can be turned to a -ga anytime. If you want to argue about skill - it is rly not hard for SCH to get enough enfeeblingskill either to be reliable, besides if it rly happens that 2 or more enemies for some unknown /randomreason resist there is stilla bindga or at hand - SCH still wins.

I guess it rly depends on what your tasks are and how big your guild is and im not being a ranthead and trying to force my opinion on anyone else here. Most of what you guys said (and im not saying that it is wrong at all) sounds more like that your ls's have a lot of members so all tasks are backuped at least once, tho i am more used to lowmanning where noone is allowed to watch TV while raiding (everyone knows at least one person of this kind). Personally if someone would put a well geared SCH and a well geared RDM in front of me.. i wouldnt know which one to pick unless i would know the definite situation and tbh.....

asking which mage is the best after the upcoming new spells and level caps... u cant tell at all can you?

Haste and Refresh are the top. Not considered the top, it's a fact. There are other buffs, and they come after those two. Thus, RDM has a massive priority advantage over SCH by the fact that they're effective debuffers and healers along with being required buffers.

SCH crowd control is tied to stratagems, RDM crowd control is not. Further, RDM has better PDT and Fast Cast (can cast under pressure). Continue along this line of thinking and SCH's efficiency will be compromised very quickly.

For the record, I was thinking lowman... if you've got numbers, nobody really gives a ***once the basics are covered.

Rinako is correct, Phalanxga > Stoneskinga in any situation where Stoneskinga doesn't prevent somebody from being 1 or 2-shotted.

What? Phlanxga is really bad , whoo -28 damage when everyone has shadows/third eye! Phalanx is WAAAAY overrated.

Stoneskin saves people from being 1 shot by astral flow, ga's, random AOE WS crap,etc etc. It is also the most mp effecient AOE cure in the game, along with regenga2(ignoring army paeon)

The argument you make against Phalanxga can also be made against Stoneskinga (save 1-shotting, which I addressed).

Um, stoneskinga saves a TON of mp just by being up at least every 5 mins(you want to SS yourself anyways for sublimation), phalanxga is a waste of a stratagem in most situations.

But is AoE'ing your Stoneskin the most effective use of your Stratagem given that you should also apply Phalanx to yourself?

phalanxga is mostly good in situations of low dmg or as just a sorta phalanx II for the tank.

Generally low dmg would be maybe something like salvage/merits or possibly like maybe frequent AOE magic dmg where the melees are getting lots of +resist to get that last little bit of dmg down to zero.

I would still rather have Stoneskin up.

Agreed like 99% of the time. Hell I very very rarely use phalanx. In the right situations it's rediculous. Most the time it's just kinda oh that's nice.

I'm sure we all know how phalanx works, so let's just say that its usefulness is situational, stoneskin isn't.

Anyway, come level 99, I predict it's going to be damn hard to beat sch/rdm...

We shall see. As it stands now yeah it will be crazy. But they already said they are doing things to make sure rdm main isn't completely shafted like stronger refresh and such.

i think with drk hitting 99, higher elemental magic skill then rdm, and access to tier 3 spells, they will become the best nuker since they can aspir and save alot of mp.