Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Why would this matter?
If you have geo-poison/para/gravity, by all means, you can test that quickly and find out. I dont have those unlocked, I dont care enough to drag my chars out to unlock it for this.
Limbus 2025
Limbus 2025
Are you new to FFXI? It matters because we've been cracking "spaghetti code" jokes for the last two decades in regards to this game. How many times has SE changed something and something completely unrelated broke?? Blindly assuming that "if it works for Indi-, it'll work the same for geo-" is a foolish thing to do.
If you have geo-poison/para/gravity, by all means, you can test that quickly and find out. I dont have those unlocked, I dont care enough to drag my chars out to unlock it for this.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Blindly assuming that "if it works for Indi-, it'll work the same for geo-" is a foolish thing to do.
...That's not the point though (and I never implied that, but i digress). What I am saying is, Wotasu claimed that aggro alone (without first tagging) triggers geomancy spells to activate, which I was unsure about. I suggested the Indi-Poison test, since Indi is a passive debuff the GEO casts on himself (not other mobs). If this truly works the way he says (it does), you can immediately see health tick down.
Nobody really cares if a GEO spell has the same effect, because all offensive GEO debuffs are monster-centered Luopans; you will always be registering hate/tag on the mob by simply casting on them. It matters even less since we already know mobs will lose all geomancy debuffs the moment initial aggro is lost. The indi test was just to confirm what he originally claimed.
Testing whether GEO-debuffs work based solely off aggro is irrelevant to this discussion and his point, but to do what you are suggesting, you'd require a second mob to see the effect and then bring it back to the luopan. Ultimately none of that matters since the subject came from being the GEO puller in Limbus, casting indi-something (barrier) and holding all mobs. GEO spells don't matter because Luopans dont move. It's not really about "spaghetti code"
Not discussing utility, just discussing whether it works or not.
Sure, its useless knowledge because as soon as someone else tags the mob, the debuff bubble will fail to take effect until the GEO gets back on hate list.
Is there any applicable use case for this to matter? Not that I can think of. If GEO aggro pulls mobs, drops a geo-vex bubble on one expecting it to affect all the mobs as they're smacking the geo with 0 enmity, and turns out they're not suffering from macc down, it might matter.
It has nothing to do with "is this information useful", it has everything to do with "is this information correct".
Sure, its useless knowledge because as soon as someone else tags the mob, the debuff bubble will fail to take effect until the GEO gets back on hate list.
Is there any applicable use case for this to matter? Not that I can think of. If GEO aggro pulls mobs, drops a geo-vex bubble on one expecting it to affect all the mobs as they're smacking the geo with 0 enmity, and turns out they're not suffering from macc down, it might matter.
It has nothing to do with "is this information useful", it has everything to do with "is this information correct".
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
s there any applicable use case for this to matter? Not that I can think of. If GEO aggro pulls mobs
There is one, but it's more steps than a standard Limbus group would bother to do and it doesn't help newbs/lazy people, who this idea would likely stand to benefit the most.
Indi-Barrier (or attunement, wilt, whichever floor you're on and whichever is stronger), Minnes on GEO, GEO pulls. Bard Sleeps. GEO still has to tag hate by curing the Bard, then swap Indi Bubble, then drop GEO bubble. I guess if your bard sucks at pulling/is squishy and you want to take less overall damage, you can do that.
The other place this probably works is in Ambuscade/Legion, but it's only because of the weird rules in there. You can Indi yourself, drop GEO bubble at start via /groundtargetst and go afk, like the rest of them do.
Speaking of pulling and BRDs (GEO) getting wrecked, should start running with a set like this to reduce the need for healing, especially in groups with only GEO as the healer (Plat. Moogle Belt).
ItemSet 402466
At least wear the socks so you can proc flee (Resist Bind is the biggest one)
ItemSet 402466
At least wear the socks so you can proc flee (Resist Bind is the biggest one)
[+]
Honestly dispelga is the easiest way to guarantee the bubble is active on everything. Curaga can miss mobs in my experiences, and it's pretty easy to tell when the bubble is active or not. Dispelga is the most reliable method for tagging everything, and in temenos you usually clear a buff from stuff too since most of the mobs are casters with pro and shell up.
I still remember when sneak attack stopped working from the back and instead only worked when facing a mob. The update it happened in had nothing in it that related to directional abilities or thief. So whatever they did, it must have been one hell of a long noodle they tugged on.
Edit: Found the patch where it happened too. It was the June 2008 Version update
Quote:
How many times has SE changed something and something completely unrelated broke??
I still remember when sneak attack stopped working from the back and instead only worked when facing a mob. The update it happened in had nothing in it that related to directional abilities or thief. So whatever they did, it must have been one hell of a long noodle they tugged on.
Edit: Found the patch where it happened too. It was the June 2008 Version update
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Asura.Melliny said: »
Honestly dispelga is the easiest way to guarantee the bubble is active on everything. Curaga can miss mobs in my experiences, and it's pretty easy to tell when the bubble is active or not. Dispelga is the most reliable method for tagging everything,
How can "curaga miss mobs"? Bard Lullaby > Cure Bard, you get hate on everything the Bard hit with Lullaby. If the Bard misses via Lullaby due to mob being out of range so that your cure doesn't affect a certain mob via Geomancy, Dispelga can equally miss a mob out of range and also not tag. So from a tagging perspective, neither is really superior*. Lullaby's radius is usually larger than Dispelga, so it will usually hit more outer mobs than Dispelga would (though they are both large).
*I'm not disagreeing with Dispelga being the most effective, since you don't need to wait for the Bard to do it and it pulls double duty by removing a buff from the mob.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Lullaby's radius is usually larger than Dispelga, so it will usually hit more outer mobs than Dispelga would (though they are both large).
All other factors aside, it's impossible for any Horde Lullaby to have a bigger radius than dispelga. Best case scenario, Horde 2 is 7' (realistically) and 1 is 8. Dispelga is 12.
On a related note, bringing up another thing i touched on earlier RE: GEO pulling, I'm nearly 100% certain that the indi spell on unclaimed targets thing is bubble-dependent. Try using indi-gravity.
Asura.Melliny said: »
Curaga can miss mobs in my experiences
Not knocking your experience, but were there more than 15 enemies present in those scenarios?
Asura.Melliny said: »
Honestly dispelga is the easiest way to guarantee the bubble is active on everything. Curaga can miss mobs in my experiences
I doubt that is the case, first there are too many variables while running Limbus to eyeball FOR SURE when the bubble is or isn't active, but I know all too well how ppl will get paranoid and will try to eyeball all possible reasons to explain why a run was slower than usual, when it was enough to run a parser to understand it often comes from having underperformers xD
That being said, Curaga can't "miss mobs", at worst you can miss the puller if you cast it on yourself and you're not close enough.
BRD pulls, GEO follows and once BRD stops to lullaby GEO put up Frailty IMMEDIATELY, then cast the first Curaga to tag hate WHILE also healing BRD n others chip damage. No dispelga needed, also the pro/shell thing mostly apply in Temenos for Sahagin, not an issue for sure in Apo.
The idea of GEO pulling imo is also huge BS lmao, sounds hella unnecessary and slower. Never needed to cast a Dispelga to tag mobs, never will tbh for melee zerg climbs..
As GEO in a speedrun climb your job during a pull is to keep the puller alive and PUT UP THE BUBBLE ASAP, before going back to fulltime erase/na etc. But at the same time, the puller has to known how much he can manage and not to overpull. THe more chaotic things happen like multiple ppl pulling simultaneously needing heals, the later Geo-Frailty will come out, as simple as that! Ppl rush while trying to save time but what they get is often the opposite result xD. I swear i've seen so many times ppl overpulling way too much just to die miserably or leading to Geo-Frailty coming out 4-5 casts later than usual due to the NEED of CUre4 or Curagas spam.
But ye, no such thing as curaga "missing mobs" and if you're pulling more than 15 at the same time, something is already wrong and unnecessary imo XD
4 pages of discussion as to how to fit a geo in a melee speed run, only because some guy said you can in theory hit cap on hybrids if you stack every buff under the sun.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
[+]
Dodik said: »
4 pages of discussion as to how to fit a geo in a melee speed run, only because some guy said you can in theory hit cap on hybrids if you stack every buff under the sun.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
I prefer to bring a BLU over GEO, Tenebral Crush -20%DT. Yes Please. Oh, and BLU doesn't just stand there (You know who you GEO's are,) BLU can even contribute DD. Even help back up heal if needed. Yeah, you probably won't 9 lines. But you will get finished faster. /shrugs
[+]
Dodik said: »
4 pages of discussion as to how to fit a geo in a melee speed run, only because some guy said you can in theory hit cap on hybrids if you stack every buff under the sun.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
Are you guys okay? By the time geo puts up bubbles you could just be killing them with physical WS.
But that won't let you take epeen screenshot of capped dmg on mobs with 50 dt.
don't try to frame it like that... it's pointless.
You can apply this concept to other types of comps, same mechanics will apply. More chaos = bubbles comes out later, more unnecessary risks, slower runs etc.
It's not just because some guy said something about hybrids, we've been bringing GEO even before this post came up again.. are YOU okay bruh? XD let theorycrafters theorycraft.. live and let live!
We're far from that point where we can stop discussing things cause they're all well known and obvious. As long as they retain a reasonable direction, these kind of conversations are useful imo.
Do you pug Limbus every week? I do and I'll tell ya it's in our best interests to have such conversations, while hoping that lazy GEO/WHM will read and learn something outta it. I care about improving the community and its players, otherwise i'd just shut up and avoid discussions in the first place, while 6 boxing my way into anything instead of wasting time typing in here xD
Pugging anything is a ***show no matter the composition. Have fun with that.
Man, forget all of that - what is the optimal 3 Trust setup for solo (when playing as a non-COR DD job, i.e. - WAR, MNK, DRG, etc)?
The Trust limit makes this tough. You don't really need a healer as you will likely be pulling single targets, but you can't get "all" of the buffs you want with just 3...
The Trust limit makes this tough. You don't really need a healer as you will likely be pulling single targets, but you can't get "all" of the buffs you want with just 3...
I haven't tested it thoroughfully, but for me the best combination I found was on BLU.
Sylvie, Joachim (or Cornelia when available) and Qultada.
You keep stuff like Haste, Nature's att buff, you can debuff others in several ways, mostly through tenebral crush or frightful roar depending if you can AoE or not.
Pretty confident there are better jobs/trusts combinations than this, but in the little time I tested things around at Limbus release, this proved to be the most efficient for me.
Sylvie, Joachim (or Cornelia when available) and Qultada.
You keep stuff like Haste, Nature's att buff, you can debuff others in several ways, mostly through tenebral crush or frightful roar depending if you can AoE or not.
Pretty confident there are better jobs/trusts combinations than this, but in the little time I tested things around at Limbus release, this proved to be the most efficient for me.
Ragnarok.Vargasfinio said: »
Man, forget all of that - what is the optimal 3 Trust setup for solo (when playing as a non-COR DD job, i.e. - WAR, MNK, DRG, etc)?
The Trust limit makes this tough. You don't really need a healer as you will likely be pulling single targets, but you can't get "all" of the buffs you want with just 3...
The Trust limit makes this tough. You don't really need a healer as you will likely be pulling single targets, but you can't get "all" of the buffs you want with just 3...
Koru/RDM, Ulmia, Sylvie. Start off with Qultada and then drop him after Chaos roll. You'll have ~5 minutes of a roll and be able to clear 1-2 floors or so. Repeat every time it wears off. It sucks having to use Ulmia (RIP Cornelia) and Jerry Rig a chaos roll, but it only takes a few seconds and you'll be happier you dismissed The Burning Blade Bandit.
Asura.Ayahuasca said: »
Do you pug Limbus every week? I do and I'll tell ya it's in our best interests to have such conversations, while hoping that lazy GEO/WHM will read and learn something outta it. I care about improving the community and its players, otherwise i'd just shut up and avoid discussions in the first place, while 6 boxing my way into anything instead of wasting time typing in here xD
Ditch the GEO and get another DD. You have to kill 4-7 mobs that die in 10 seconds each.
If the GEO is your healer and buffer and debuffer, I'm having problems figuring out where they have time to drop a bubble between all those other duties.
[+]
Hi,
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
Kojako2 said: »
Hi,
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
That's how the content works. That's the expected result.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Kojako2 said: »
Hi,
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
Could anybody help with limbus points not being granted after killing enemies. I get points for clearing floors but not off individual enemies. It’s happening in both areas. I have tried zoning and completed both areas to open the chest but no luck.
Any help would be much appreciated
That's how the content works. That's the expected result.
Thanks for clarifying. My memory is maybe a little off as I thought units were awarded after defeating a monster. So it’s units each time the bar is filled and when opening chests.
[+]
So, how many servers failed (or refused) to kill their U&O this time besides ragnarok
I've heard whipserings of a "*** this content" nature...
I've heard whipserings of a "*** this content" nature...
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Is FFXI dead yet? C'mon, any day now..
If enough servers fail, they'll just change the content or bring out the GMs to kill it again. It's not an issue.
I don't think matters are effected by O/U and the AH mats are all worthless now anyway.
That's what I'm looking for. Undeniable proof positive that if enough people say *** it, they'll fix it. (again, because no matter how many times it happens idiots never figure it out)
The thing I tell you people every day. Stop *** doing it if you don't like it so they get the message and change it.
The thing I tell you people every day. Stop *** doing it if you don't like it so they get the message and change it.
[+]
This is an idea based around nothing but my experience and love for the game.
Limbus should be a 2-3 hour a week endeavor.
Each "Wing" should provide a chest to open instead of having to do all 4 per chest. Yes, a solid group could easily get 4 chest in under an hour. 2 zones, 2 hours, 8 chest.
Roaming NMs turn into pop NMs. After you pop a chest in the wing you get a KI (NW Apollyon Shard) to pop a random (per tower) NM at a nearby ???. NMs are tuned for 6 well geared players. They give 1000 units and a chance at craft/shard items. Each person that gets credit for the NM has their KI upgraded. (NW Apollyon Shard turns into NW Apollyon Fragment)
Once you have NW/SE/NE/SE Fragments you can enter the basement. Tuned for Alliance based fights (6-12), all Fragments lost upon entry.
Tier 1 = Brown Chest: 3000 units, chance at matters/shards. The NMs have a Rare/EX drop item "Apollyon Dark Orb" that is used to advance to tier 2 the next week.
Tier 2 = Red chest: 3000 units, 100% Matter. To access you have to have your KIs and trade the "Apollyon Dark Orb" to the floor selection ??? by the alliance leader. The NMs have a Rare/EX drop item "Apollyon Red Orb" that is used to advance to tier 3 the next week.
Tier 3 Omega/Ulima = Gold chest: 5000 units, 100% Matter. (plus new drops TBD) To access you have to have your KIs and trade the "Apollyon Red Orb" to the floor selection ??? by the alliance leader.
Casual/Solo players can get 8 chest a week in 2/3 hours. Groups can get extra units/drops fighting NMs. NM farming requires a balanced group able to fight any of the 22 NMs. Alliance content to challenge the basement. 3 Weeks per Ultima/Omega.
Yes this will never happen but if Limbus was structured like this it would be extremely popular for all walks of FFXI player. It only speeds up R30 for the dedicated players but allows most everyone to work on ranking up the item sets.
Limbus should be a 2-3 hour a week endeavor.
Each "Wing" should provide a chest to open instead of having to do all 4 per chest. Yes, a solid group could easily get 4 chest in under an hour. 2 zones, 2 hours, 8 chest.
Roaming NMs turn into pop NMs. After you pop a chest in the wing you get a KI (NW Apollyon Shard) to pop a random (per tower) NM at a nearby ???. NMs are tuned for 6 well geared players. They give 1000 units and a chance at craft/shard items. Each person that gets credit for the NM has their KI upgraded. (NW Apollyon Shard turns into NW Apollyon Fragment)
Once you have NW/SE/NE/SE Fragments you can enter the basement. Tuned for Alliance based fights (6-12), all Fragments lost upon entry.
Tier 1 = Brown Chest: 3000 units, chance at matters/shards. The NMs have a Rare/EX drop item "Apollyon Dark Orb" that is used to advance to tier 2 the next week.
Tier 2 = Red chest: 3000 units, 100% Matter. To access you have to have your KIs and trade the "Apollyon Dark Orb" to the floor selection ??? by the alliance leader. The NMs have a Rare/EX drop item "Apollyon Red Orb" that is used to advance to tier 3 the next week.
Tier 3 Omega/Ulima = Gold chest: 5000 units, 100% Matter. (plus new drops TBD) To access you have to have your KIs and trade the "Apollyon Red Orb" to the floor selection ??? by the alliance leader.
Casual/Solo players can get 8 chest a week in 2/3 hours. Groups can get extra units/drops fighting NMs. NM farming requires a balanced group able to fight any of the 22 NMs. Alliance content to challenge the basement. 3 Weeks per Ultima/Omega.
Yes this will never happen but if Limbus was structured like this it would be extremely popular for all walks of FFXI player. It only speeds up R30 for the dedicated players but allows most everyone to work on ranking up the item sets.
[+]
You my mans 50 grand Taint, but you gotta accept it. The content's trash and it's gonna stay trash. Just like I wanted a different model with Gaol never happened, Limbus is what it is. But you gotta do it. Don't delay the inevitable, you are making this process longer. Sworn set needs you. Come on over to the dark side fam. It gets better after suffering through the first dozen (It doesn't but you'll get used to it).
Matter of fact I still need 5 Limbus tonight (3 Apollyon 2 Temenos) before reset. We can tag team it tonight. No worse than camping HNMs for four hours
Matter of fact I still need 5 Limbus tonight (3 Apollyon 2 Temenos) before reset. We can tag team it tonight. No worse than camping HNMs for four hours
[+]
I'd settle for making the alabaster and murky matter 100% drop rate
Those 30 minute HNM windows were great for working out and cleaning lol.
I just had to post my idea to help cope.
I just had to post my idea to help cope.
Asura.Melliny said: »
I'd settle for making the alabaster and murky matter 100% drop rate
This has been my biggest gripe outside of the content quality itself. 3k chest should always reward a matter no matter what (especially with upgraded box quality). 5k chest should reward 1-2 matter. It feels like a straight kick in my nuts when I don't get a matter/5k chest. Literally waste of my time.
I don't see any reason why shards are two guaranteed per 5k chest but matters are not. Literally the only reason to make it this way is to artificially prolong player progress (similar to how they initially capped gallimaufry to stall progress on the eventual primes). I honestly hate when they make systems like that with deliberate gates, because it adds more slogginess to the already sloggy grind. But it's their way of projecting out their roadmap for 2-3 years because they have likely no plans beyond Limbus and Besieged. So I can understand the reasoning a little.
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