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anyone got a drg guide ( bg wiki been deleted)
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19610
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-06-25 12:24:50
Most of the people who own BGwiki don't give a crap, they don't play and don't care one way or the other. Spicyryan can rub his *** all over the site for all they care. If they cared he would not still have admin rights.
This is why it's important to never be reliant on one wiki, all information where possible should be mirrored on both.
I don't disagree that relying on a single point of failure is stupid especially when it comes to information (how much has been lost to time due to the burning of ancient libraries etc); there really isn't a "good" XI wiki though when it comes to absolute morality etc.
Remember the reason that BGWiki was ever even made
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By Viciouss 2024-06-25 12:28:13
(you literally have to pay the US gov't for a copyright, and it has to be granted. Yes, it can be rejected.
Really? I believe you get it automatically the moment you created something in most countries.
https://www.copyrightlaws.com/how-to-get-a-copyright/
Quote: When it comes to how to get a copyright, you don’t need to do anything! That’s the best thing about obtaining copyright protection: it’s automatic in close to 200 countries around the world
It's just that bg-wiki is a different case because it uses CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 License. If you want to own all the right of your work then you can not publish on bg-wiki. If you publish your work somewhere else you shouldn't need to apply for it.
You have to pay for the right to protect it. So if someone were to steal your work, you can't do anything if it's not registered. In this case, it's silly because BG-Wiki has a legal disclaimer on their website.
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By Afania 2024-06-25 12:29:17
Plus, he wants this attention, so best to let him have it removed and gone
That doesn't matter. I only discussing who owns content on bg-wiki from legal pov. Whether the community needs the content or not is a different discussion.
If the author wishes to be gone and forgotten they are free to remove their name according to moral right. If people wants to share or use the content on bg-wiki they are not breaking the law afaik.
Just take away his mod privileges (seriously?) and repost the guides. Call it a day. They aren't intellectual property, they aren't copyrighted (you literally have to pay the US gov't for a copyright, and it has to be granted. Yes, it can be rejected. Can pretty much guarantee no one that has ever written a guide has attempted it) Morals and FFXI divorced 20 years ago. repost the guides and make him a *** pariah? Do not feed his ego
This discussion isn't just about Spicyryan and his attention. It's also about the role of BG-wiki and community guides legal problems.
I think such information is useful for future references.
VIP
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 495
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2024-06-25 12:34:19
You have to pay for the right to protect it. So if someone were to steal your work, you can't do anything if it's not registered. 
 Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 300
By Asura.Hya 2024-06-25 12:37:17
This is why it's important to never be reliant on one wiki, all information where possible should be mirrored on both. Well then you'd best get to work on mirroring the information to another source if you are so serious and concerned about the issue. Because posting on ffxiah about how it needs to be done isn't going to actually do anything.
By K123 2024-06-25 12:46:37
Plus, he wants this attention, so best to let him have it removed and gone
That doesn't matter. I only discussing who owns content on bg-wiki from legal pov. Whether the community needs the content or not is a different discussion.
If the author wishes to be gone and forgotten they are free to remove their name according to moral right. If people wants to share or use the content on bg-wiki they are not breaking the law afaik.
Just take away his mod privileges (seriously?) and repost the guides. Call it a day. They aren't intellectual property, they aren't copyrighted (you literally have to pay the US gov't for a copyright, and it has to be granted. Yes, it can be rejected. Can pretty much guarantee no one that has ever written a guide has attempted it) Morals and FFXI divorced 20 years ago. repost the guides and make him a *** pariah? Do not feed his ego
This discussion isn't just about Spicyryan and his attention. It's also about the role of BG-wiki and community guides legal problems.
I think such information is useful for future references. Noone is breaking the law, but let him disappear for the sake of future generations
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19610
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-06-25 12:49:16
This is why it's important to never be reliant on one wiki, all information where possible should be mirrored on both. Well then you'd best get to work on mirroring the information to another source if you are so serious and concerned about the issue. Because posting on ffxiah about how it needs to be done isn't going to actually do anything.
To put a spotlight on someone actually putting their money where their mouth is: Kaius has already written an almost fully functional DRG gear guide replacement in less than 24 hours. Be the change you want to be!
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-06-25 12:52:34
Valefor.Prothescar said: »To put a spotlight on someone actually putting their money where their mouth is: Kaius has already written an almost fully functional DRG gear guide replacement in less than 24 hours. Be the change you want to be!
Nveee as well, with THF
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Dragoon_Guide_By_Kaius
Needs to actually be moved into the guide subsection though
Is there now
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By K123 2024-06-25 13:13:17
Why would relic hands+3 be optional? Making Angon 25% DEF down instead of 20% is huge.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1219
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-06-25 13:19:19
Why would relic hands+3 be optional? Making Angon 25% DEF down instead of 20% is huge. +3 versions aka $$$
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-06-25 13:20:10
It is unnecessary to upgrade them to get that effect
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By K123 2024-06-25 13:20:38
Sure, but make a comment to say +1 is essential at least then.
119+1 just to maintain ilvl and defensive bits, before someone else makes an obvious comment.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1219
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-06-25 13:26:06
It seems pretty obvious. You either enjoy completionism or you enjoy having gil.
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By K123 2024-06-25 13:42:23
It seems pretty obvious. You either enjoy completionism or you enjoy having gil. Not to new players that need a guide maybe.
By Foxfire 2024-06-25 13:46:37
Kaius' guide is on the DRG main page guide section now.
edit:
It was the weapon section and only so many ways to say "it comes from blank, it is better than blank" I removed his personal thoughts and opinions, since they were not great to begin with.
yes, i'm aware, but leaving his flowery ***in there along with his typos made it too obvious i imagine. i'm not going to defend his actions, just saying it is what it is.
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Bismarck.Tyconus
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 27
By Bismarck.Tyconus 2024-06-25 13:53:52
yes, i'm aware, but leaving his flowery ***in there along with his typos made it too obvious i imagine.
I actually fixed all his typos and linked to all the pages.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-06-25 13:56:16
I'd remove half the weapons in the first place and only bother to mention where and why.
Only get this because you can't get that/until you get it. So much wasted space. Quick and to the point.
Like literally, Iziikoh. Ipetam. Atoyac. Jugo. Sabebus. It isn't 2015. (But it's not my guide, there's no point in telling me why you would leave them there)
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By Foxfire 2024-06-25 14:14:31
yes, i'm aware, but leaving his flowery ***in there along with his typos made it too obvious i imagine.
I actually fixed all his typos and linked to all the pages. You left a "preform" but yeah otherwise the descriptions were similar enough to what he had so shrug
if anything, not specifically a guide, but guide "enough" for what a lot of people look for, we still have izanami's gear sets for every job. not sure how much that has changed over time.
Bismarck.Tyconus
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 27
By Bismarck.Tyconus 2024-06-25 15:25:23
It didn't stick around long enough for me to proof read and fix. :D
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1219
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-06-25 15:42:50
It seems pretty obvious. You either enjoy completionism or you enjoy having gil. Not to new players that need a guide maybe.
Yes the guide will give them common sense and the ability to make their own decisions, everything must be spelled out for them.
The guide is literally on a wiki that provide the information to make it so they can look stuff up if they don't feel like they are being guided in the right direction. A thing that everyone should be doing. 'Maybe' there is a pretty strong indicator of, you have a choice to make.
By Meeble 2024-06-25 15:56:26
If the author wishes to be gone and forgotten they are free to remove their name according to moral right. If people wants to share or use the content on bg-wiki they are not breaking the law afaik.
It's not a legal issue, it's a social one. Saying "eff what he wants, use his work anyway" sends the message that the community gives no ***** about the people who write guides and contribute to the wikis. Regardless of how you feel about spicy personally, respecting his choice to remove his contributions is important, even if there's no law that requires it.
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Bahamut.Kaius
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Bahamut.Kaius 2024-06-25 15:57:19
Quote: Yes the guide will give them common sense and the ability to make their own decisions, everything must be spelled out for them.
The guide is literally on a wiki that provide the information to make it so they can look stuff up if they don't feel like they are being guided in the right direction. A thing that everyone should be doing. 'Maybe' there is a pretty strong indicator of, you have a choice to make.
Agreed, the guide I'm creating is targeted more toward a player with some experience, entering or moving toward "end-game". Hopefully I will be able to include enough explanation and bread-crumbs that newer players can learn from it apply concepts - but I am very intentionally not showing every "newbie" set of gear along the way, and there will always be a need to explore the game and resources online beyond reading a single guide. All that said, I did think it was worth while adding a note about what "upgrade?" means.
Everyone feel free to offer up any other ideas or suggestions on what I can improve.
I am also more than happy to use what I have as the basis for starting a community version that can be publicly maintained.
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-06-25 16:05:26
Your description of the emp legs is inaccurate, or missing one detail.
Crit damage + is only natively valuable to drakesbane, and if the assumption is "with shining one" then it should be stated
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1219
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-06-25 16:06:51
IDK if you want to include /DNC for Kraken Club silliness. It's extremely cost prohibitive, but it's also very effective in segments.
Bahamut.Kaius
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Bahamut.Kaius 2024-06-25 16:15:57
Your description of the emp legs is inaccurate, or missing one detail.
Crit damage + is only natively valuable to drakesbane, and if the assumption is "with shining one" then it should be stated Thanks, good call.
Quote: IDK if you want to include /DNC for Kraken Club silliness. It's extremely cost prohibitive, but it's also very effective in segments. Indeed, indeed tis fun. I will work on getting it added. I played with one for segs a bit. Have done just as well /war though so I sold it.
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Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 25
By Cerberus.Fishmonger 2024-06-25 16:21:04
Spicy is what FFXI-brainrot midlife crisis looks like.
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Fenrir.Zenion
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Zenion 2024-06-25 16:27:02
Agreed, the guide I'm creating is targeted more toward a player with some experience, entering or moving toward "end-game". Hopefully I will be able to include enough explanation and bread-crumbs that newer players can learn from it apply concepts - but I am very intentionally not showing every "newbie" set of gear along the way, and there will always be a need to explore the game and resources online beyond reading a single guide. All that said, I did think it was worth while adding a note about what "upgrade?" means.
Everyone feel free to offer up any other ideas or suggestions on what I can improve.
If you're not giving full stepping-stone sets, it would be helpful to make some space to discuss what to prioritize in sets: sTP versus DA versus Haste, which weaponskills scale best by crit rate/potency, which by WSD, which by multi-attack, maybe very important pieces to look into. Pieces that are good for a while but only with certain augments, because that's information that you can't easily access just comparing gear on FFXIAH item search.
Did you know that there are 42 unique ilvl119 pieces that dragoon can equip, just for the body slot? That's a lot to look at and just intuitively understand without some grounding in what the job requires and benefits most from.
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Lockethedark 2024-06-25 17:55:11
1-119 Guide is now gone. He deleted it.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2862
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-06-25 18:05:15
The beauty of this is that going forward, every time I will wind up looking back at something ive done and feel it was some childish immature ***, i can have assurance that whatever I did pales in comparison to deleting all my ***off the wiki of a 22 year old game because my feefees were hurt.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-06-25 18:14:24
Ragnarok.Lockethedark said: »1-119 Guide is now gone. He deleted it.
I copied the whole thing yesterday knowing that would happen.
I suggest you copy anything you feel you may want later, no ones going to rein him in.
now spicyryan has deleted his guide from bgwiki does anyone have a up to date one at all ?
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