Continued Prime Weapon NA Review

Most people (save a couple) were well-behaved, the discussions pretty civil, and any derailments from Primes short-lived. In fact you're by far the least well-behaved person "shitting things up" in truly bizarre form, while ironically telling people to grow up.

It takes a degree of naivete to expect forum threads not to evolve into discussions. As long as those discussions aren't total flame wars and remain relatively on-topic, who cares?

Sorry people failed your silly social experiment by engaging in some of the tamest discussion ever seen on AH. After offering pages of feedback that had gotten repetitive.


No idea where this utopia is, but "most other places" are not like that at all.

Social experiment lmao. First of all, and you may not have been around when this was true, there used to be standards for threads. Important topics were culled and curated, and separate discussion threads were used for the general shitassery. The reason you've all gotten so comfortable and complacent with being able to do whatever the *** you want and turn every single thread into the same tired *** arguments is because the moderation has become close to nonexistent. Thankfully, that might be changing soon.

So yes, expecting certain threads not to devolve into arguing is actually completely fine and used to be the norm. There's a fun button called "Post Topic" where, if you want to talk about something that isn't a part of the thread, you can make your own thread to talk about it.

The fact is, the posts were not what the thread was for. You can whine about the decision to lock it all you want, but it is what it is. So far the only defense against are bad faith arguments of "but that's just how it is, how could you expect someone to actually follow what the thread was created for??"

And yes, the irony of the fact that I'm doing the same thing right now isn't lost on me. Difference is, if my posts were removed for it, I wouldn't whine about it.


To quote someone,

Closing the previous thread so this shitshow could start was totes the right call my doods

I know right...

Still need a forum place for prime, its not like we're gonna stop talking about it.

That's fine, no one is telling anyone that there can't be a place to discuss primes. But what I am telling you is that the other thread was not the place to do it.

"Hey guys, what are your feelings, thoughts, and opinions about Prime weapons?"

"Why are you guys arguing about the design of Sortie?!"

This is exactly why the thread could have waited. All the information we know is already provided by Gama-Shama.

Sortie is directly related to the forging process so actually it wasn't a problem at all to have people giving their thoughts on that and how it relates to Prime Weapons, the arguing part was though!

I'm not really getting the warm and fuzzies with hearing that there are placeholders for the next stages, and that there's MORE gallimaufry involved. I get it, need something to stop players from being able to finish in a few weeks. But to tie it to gallimaufry is disappointing. I would have liked to see an alternative option. Like 1 mil Gallimaufry OR a certain number of low drop rate stones? At least that way I could feel I might get lucky each run and make progress. I need to work on my FOMO not kicking in when I miss a Sortie run...Going to be a long few months.

In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for the results from testing the new WS in Sortie. Got my eyes on a few in particular, but it's hard to see myself completing a weapon just for completion sake or love for the job it's tied to, if it involves this much effort / time. Double so if the weapon doesn't have a solid use case.

Unfortunately, most of the weapons seem to just offer straight damage increase, as opposed to working off the jobs. Though I can understand that since some weapons have multiple jobs. I really liked the direction they seemed to be going with Relic R15 augments, Mythics, and SU5 weapons. Even if they sometimes missed the mark, the idea behind them were so cool in my opinion. Playing up the strengths / niches of a job as opposed to just providing more damage.

I think we know a fair bit at this point. We may not have exact requirements in front of us, but we know that they expect players to be 'shocked' by the final requirements and that they expect only a few hardcore or 'fast' players will finish in six months. When you combine this with what we know about Sortie after running it for months and the 1m requirement for mostly useless weapons, I think it's enough to form an opinion on where it is going based on what we do know and their mindset.

Not that it matters much, though, I'd be surprised if SE is paying much attention to this forum. More than likely they will, a year from now, run some query and see how many Primes are floating in various stages, then decide if they overreached or not. They may also listen to the JP community feedback, but I doubt they'll take much from here. It is somewhat reassuring to know that I'm not the only one with the same complaints/concerns, though.

Honest and constructive feedback about prime weapons. I think each weapon should have a reason for a player to actively want to make that weapon.

1.) Can SE give us a demonstration of the weaponskills or skill gains/properties? (Otherwise, it's difficult to know what to look forward to for weapons that are appear underwhelming or not obvious winners).

2.) If development is going to slow considerably, can the prime weapons be re-tweaked? They don't have to be ultimate weapons necessarily, but perhaps increase the utility of those jobs. (Think Burtgang, Carnwenhan, Yagrush for PLD, BRD and WHM, respectively and compare them to Liberator for DRK, Claustrum or Spharai for BLM and MNK).

I can tell you with 100% confidence that the feedback posted on Prime weapons has been collected. What is done with that feedback by Fujito can't be promised by anyone.

Same as before, gallimaufry requirement is way too high, -drite requirement (probably) too low. Surely it's bad design if the need for gallimaufry so greatly outpaces the need for every single event drop (besides case +1 of course).

People have varying tolerance for grind, but the reward is generally the motivation to complete the content. If we don't know how well/poorly these weapons perform then there's really no basis for an opinion about whether or not they are 'worth it'. That's why my opinion is better than everyone else. It's no opinion. More information is needed.

Some people should be at 900k+ Galli now. I'm expecting news about stage 4 requirements tomorrow maybe. Hopefully someone will decide to sacrifice one run to test WSs too :)

Dunno why you bothered to close the old thread, it wasn't even that bad.

The amount of time isn't really the problem, the duration of Sortie and having to do it every day is the problem. We had worse grinds back in the day and it wasn't so bad because you were only allowed to do it twice a week.

They need to up the reward and decrease how often you can do it, which will also make it easier for everyone to get into it too.

Quoting your post going slightly off topic compared to what you were trying to say to emphasize this, since I noticed many people said similar things.

Yes, we've had grinds in the past that were way worse than this.
The point is though that just because something was perfectly acceptable 15 years ago and perfectly in line with the industry standards at the time, doesn't necessarily mean it's acceptable in 2023 as well.

I thought the previous thread was good. Anyone remember when literally every post turned into a flame war and trolls ran rampant, to the point some left the forum because every little throwaway comment was blown up for entertainment? I do not miss those days. This forum has never been severely moderated, and I'm sure players appreciate that because they have freedom to express. So long as it is kept civil and topics do gradually get back on subject, it should be fine. When it's 6 or 7 pages of nonstop arguments, then sure, close it down.

I moderate a site and let people be themselves. You clean up the worst of it, but you also have to let commenters do things naturally. Now, on topic, I believe most of the constructive feedback was provided in the previous thread. We only need to come back to this when the first stage 3 weapons exist so the new weaponskills can be tested. Until then, any feedback on these weapons are based in assumption and will usually default to talking about Sortie and how it could/should be better.

Correct. Assaults used to be once a day too. Took ages just to get enough points to spend on Salvage KI, which were shared with gear that was really good at the time.

Forcing players to either spend them for mythic progress or getting gear. Sound familiar?

That said, given there are people about to get stage3 primes, two weeks after release, probably not excessive at this stage.

In before stage4 upgrade is 10M gallimuffins.

That feel when prime weapon can't replace Yagyu Darkblade.

What even was the point? So much potential wasted.

Based on old-wiki:
It used to be 2000 points (tbh I dont even remember this) when it was first introduced in Dec 2006, was changed to 1500 in June 2007. Assault was added April 2006, so thats already 8 months of accumulating points. RvB didnt come out until June 2007, with the Captain assaults that always awarded 1500 in August 2007.

As far as accumulating points:
Lamia 13 was available from the get go (well almost, just gotta do one rank up) and only needed 3 characters with dispel to get 1200 pts.

Someone wasn't around during the abyssean wars. Dark times...

I dont think threads even move here that fast to warrant stern moderating, only under special controversial threads probably

It's just a baseless guess, but I'm thinking the next stage will be just using the WS inside sortie like a thousand times or so

this would be a great idea!

At least the pre-requisites for Mythic creation did a great job of communicating the enormity of the grind and preventing people from starting weapons they'd never finish. Compare to the absolute mountain of players who started a Relic and abandoned it partway when they finally did the math.

I'm still amazed how they implemented a nearly perfect upgrade system for Primes (grind lots of stage by stage *ite drops on various objectives + timegated monthly psyches), only to sideline it and go with mass muffins instead. How do you get such an obvious answer so very wrong?

Well it wouldn't work for shield or horn

Sing Aria of Passion 100,000 times or block 1,000,000 times.

Kill X boss with weapon equipped 20 times would be fine with me rather than any Galli. But we know Galli is a part of it.

A nice dream, but SE didn't raise the Gall cap just to not sodomize their playerbase with it.

Last summer, SE also raised the Nyzule Tokens cap to 100M. I think it was raised to this number for technical reasons. Meanwhile, Gallimaufry was initially set at 100k to slow our growth rate.

Edit: Typo