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20th Anniversary Reddit AMA
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-05-24 10:48:43
Quote: It all goes back to SE just giving them some free money, which seems to be a problem as they're expected to have XI pay for itself.
Which is kind of silly, because XI doesn't get to keep any of its money to invest in itself. I realize that's how businesses work, but still... you'd think they could give them literally anything to help keep the project moving and growing.
other similar testimonials found recently regarding how companies spend their revenue. Thought y'all might find a kindred spirit here.
"I'm upset that profits from Coca-Cola sales go into improvements for Diet Coke and other frivolous flavors. I want all the money they make from sales of Coke Classic to only be spent to improve Coke Classic."
"I just found out that McDonald's takes profits from their Salad Sales and applies them across their entire operation without deference to Vegans. This means that my Salad is funding the slaughtering of animals! How could you do this to me, Ronald?"
"I find it absolutely offensive that when I buy an electric car from General Motors the employees who worked on their Gas Guzzler models get paid. I refuse to allow any of my hard earned loan to benefit planet killers."
Asura.Bootus
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 62
By Asura.Bootus 2022-05-24 10:56:30
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »Quote: It all goes back to SE just giving them some free money, which seems to be a problem as they're expected to have XI pay for itself.
Which is kind of silly, because XI doesn't get to keep any of its money to invest in itself. I realize that's how businesses work, but still... you'd think they could give them literally anything to help keep the project moving and growing.
other similar testimonials found recently regarding how companies spend their revenue. Thought y'all might find a kindred spirit here.
"I'm upset that profits from Coca-Cola sales go into improvements for Diet Coke and other frivolous flavors. I want all the money they make from sales of Coke Classic to only be spent to improve Coke Classic."
"I just found out that McDonald's takes profits from their Salad Sales and applies them across their entire operation without deference to Vegans. This means that my Salad is funding the slaughtering of animals! How could you do this to me, Ronald?"
"I find it absolutely offensive that when I buy an electric car from General Motors the employees who worked on their Gas Guzzler models get paid. I refuse to allow any of my hard earned loan to benefit planet killers."
I get what you're saying, and you're right. Those are also not good comparisons. It's more like if I said "man, I wish Pepsi would take some of their sales from Mountain Dew and refine the recipe instead of using it to come up with new Doritos flavors."
Bismarck.Dekusutaa
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 496
By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2022-05-24 10:58:10
FFXI development was also funded by profits of Square's single player games. I imagine FF purists complaining XI isn't a real numbered game and they didn't approve of their support of FFX going into XI's development.
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Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-05-24 10:59:15
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »Quote: It all goes back to SE just giving them some free money, which seems to be a problem as they're expected to have XI pay for itself.
Which is kind of silly, because XI doesn't get to keep any of its money to invest in itself. I realize that's how businesses work, but still... you'd think they could give them literally anything to help keep the project moving and growing.
other similar testimonials found recently regarding how companies spend their revenue. Thought y'all might find a kindred spirit here.
"I'm upset that profits from Coca-Cola sales go into improvements for Diet Coke and other frivolous flavors. I want all the money they make from sales of Coke Classic to only be spent to improve Coke Classic."
"I just found out that McDonald's takes profits from their Salad Sales and applies them across their entire operation without deference to Vegans. This means that my Salad is funding the slaughtering of animals! How could you do this to me, Ronald?"
"I find it absolutely offensive that when I buy an electric car from General Motors the employees who worked on their Gas Guzzler models get paid. I refuse to allow any of my hard earned loan to benefit planet killers."
I get what you're saying, and you're right. Those are also not good comparisons. It's more like if I said "man, I wish Pepsi would take some of their sales from Mountain Dew and refine the recipe instead of using it to come up with new Doritos flavors."
...which is still 100% perfectly OK. About the only way you can guarantee these days that dollars spent on a product will 100% be dedicated to the costs associated only with that product and its longevity is to shop local farms.
This idea of consumers thinking they can dictate billion-dollar corporate policy needs to die, and die fast. This is how we end up with companies spending more on social messaging than their employees and quality.
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Asura.Bootus
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 62
By Asura.Bootus 2022-05-24 11:03:58
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »Quote: It all goes back to SE just giving them some free money, which seems to be a problem as they're expected to have XI pay for itself.
Which is kind of silly, because XI doesn't get to keep any of its money to invest in itself. I realize that's how businesses work, but still... you'd think they could give them literally anything to help keep the project moving and growing.
other similar testimonials found recently regarding how companies spend their revenue. Thought y'all might find a kindred spirit here.
"I'm upset that profits from Coca-Cola sales go into improvements for Diet Coke and other frivolous flavors. I want all the money they make from sales of Coke Classic to only be spent to improve Coke Classic."
"I just found out that McDonald's takes profits from their Salad Sales and applies them across their entire operation without deference to Vegans. This means that my Salad is funding the slaughtering of animals! How could you do this to me, Ronald?"
"I find it absolutely offensive that when I buy an electric car from General Motors the employees who worked on their Gas Guzzler models get paid. I refuse to allow any of my hard earned loan to benefit planet killers."
I get what you're saying, and you're right. Those are also not good comparisons. It's more like if I said "man, I wish Pepsi would take some of their sales from Mountain Dew and refine the recipe instead of using it to come up with new Doritos flavors."
...which is still 100% perfectly OK. About the only way you can guarantee these days that dollars spent on a product will 100% be dedicated to the costs associated only with that product and its longevity is to shop local farms.
This idea of consumers thinking they can dictate billion-dollar corporate policy needs to die, and die fast. This is how we end up with companies spending more on social messaging than their employees and quality.
At what point did I imply we should be dictate their policies? I just was saying I wish they made an actual investment into the game to help ensure its longevity. They can't keep running on PS2 Devkits and Playonline forever -- eventually it will be impossible to continue updating the game. Zero dollars profit is a lot less than a few million.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 487
By Asura.Beatsbytaru 2022-05-24 11:06:49
They will throw XIV devs at it to quickly convert over if it's profitable enough. If not, you're only getting ambu swaps until they shut it down.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-05-24 11:10:28
my apologies. My comments are much more based on the general thought I see expressed than your personal feelings- your post was simply the latest to be in that sphere of thought and so I quoted that one.
But your comment of "they can't keep running on PS2 Devkits and Playonline forever"- so very true. For the longest time I felt that SE would constantly invest in making sure that XI was at least available for its fans to play, seeing how it is a numbered FF title, and that does mean something to the company and its history. But I've always felt that approach doesn't guarantee two things that I see people just assume- first, that "always available" translates to "always being maintained/updated"- and second, that it will be modernized to keep it relevant.
But I do strongly feel that SE execs wish they could let XI just die on the vine. I'm sure in a way Yoshida et al feel a lot like Henry Ford after the Model T. Sure, it created an entire industry and was beautifully made for its purpose so well there was almost no need to change things. But as a creator, all he wanted was to improve and move on...while all his customers wanted was that trusty Model T. Its a damn good thing he didn't listen to just his customers.
Bahamut.Shozokui
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 460
By Bahamut.Shozokui 2022-05-24 11:29:39
How much time have you spent reverse engineering FFXI, analyzing FFXI network traffic, or doing anything that would give you this knowledge? Do you have any concrete reason to believe playonline would effect anything inside FFXI? The only part of playonline that remains when the game launches is a single structure that gets passed off. Private servers don't even use playonline to launch the main client. Why do you feel so confident speaking as if your completely unsubstantiated thoughts are fact, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about?
This is the point I've been preaching for ages. MXI has existed for half the game's lifespan at this point iirc. "Decoupling" is just creating a series of web services and a new launcher.
It's not an insurmountable task. It's a task with measurable requirements and a fixed budget. Realistically it's more web development than anything. Protocols like JWT, OAuth, etc make authentication relatively trivial..
I'd hazard a guess that it's nowhere near as difficult as they make it out to be. More likely is they don't want to risk a 100-200k investment and hope people will just quit playing.
I've also made the point that the XI community will buy just about anything they sell. So the opportunity to generate increased revenue for an undertaking like this is there.
Bahamut.Shozokui
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 460
By Bahamut.Shozokui 2022-05-24 11:45:15
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »"they can't keep running on PS2 Devkits and Playonline forever"
I've heard this somewhere before. Oh right, it was Blizzard right before 1 dev at the company proved to them how it was not only possible, but not that difficult to modernize a legacy version of the game with a lot of the same limitations.
They subsequently took advantage of that and the demand to revitalize their failing live service.
Only difference here is XIV isn't failing, but instead bringing in a ***load of money from the store.
Excuses are rough.
By Musashi232 2022-05-24 12:01:55
Valefor.Prothescar said: »ok thank you for noticing me 14 dweeb <3
Asura.Bootus
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 62
By Asura.Bootus 2022-05-24 12:34:20
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »"they can't keep running on PS2 Devkits and Playonline forever"
I've heard this somewhere before. Oh right, it was Blizzard right before 1 dev at the company proved to them how it was not only possible, but not that difficult to modernize a legacy version of the game with a lot of the same limitations.
Yeah, Blizzard with Classic WoW is apples to oranges on this. It's a terrible comparison.
One, that's not AT ALL the same situation. I'm not calling for a classic server, I'm just saying we (eventually) need a new client if we want the game to continue existing (online) at all.
Two, the player base of WoW is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the player base of FFXI ever was, even at its peak. It's like comparing a regional chain of grocery stores like Meijer to say... Walmart.
Three, the limitations are not even close in scale. Like, not even a little bit. Final Fantasy's limitations were apparent even at initial release, AND instead of two years of content that needs to be remade (at least initially), we're talking about 20 years of content that would need to be remade or transferred over. It's not even remotely the same. It would be an insanely daunting and expensive task to create a new client for the game... but they need to do it eventually if it's going to continue existing.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 472
By Asura.Wormfeeder 2022-05-24 12:48:12
SE doesn't really care about the player base in general. this 20th anv is pretty much a slap in the face, look what they did for the 17th anv compared to the 20th. I mean really give us 6 days of all campaigns when they should have made it for the whole month. Anyone that thinks se cares about anyone but the JP player based is blind. If it wasn't for all the RMT accounts SE would have shut the servers down 5 years ago. They care about their bottom line and that is it.
EOR:
By Aerix 2022-05-24 12:48:56
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »But I do strongly feel that SE execs wish they could let XI just die on the vine. I'm sure in a way Yoshida et al feel a lot like Henry Ford after the Model T. Sure, it created an entire industry and was beautifully made for its purpose so well there was almost no need to change things. But as a creator, all he wanted was to improve and move on...while all his customers wanted was that trusty Model T. Its a damn good thing he didn't listen to just his customers.
I get the comparison, but cars ultimately all perform the same basic function. Whereas there's nothing like FFXI to move on to afterwards (DQX is JP only and still too different) because the setting, story and a lot of gameplay systems are unique. It's a holistic experience. Even if other games capture part of it that still won't scratch the itch.
So yeah, I don't want to see the game I've played for a large part of my life wither and die. And if that means I'll been seen as delusional and unreasonable then I'm fine with that.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-05-24 12:49:15
Aint no way we're Meijer. At best we're Piggly Wiggly, and more likely we're a run down Wawa.
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Lakshmi.Avereith
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1214
By Lakshmi.Avereith 2022-05-24 13:16:59
Bahamut.Negan
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2193
By Bahamut.Negan 2022-05-24 13:18:35
Bahamut.Brixy
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
By Bahamut.Brixy 2022-05-24 13:21:11
Dollar General only has everything if they get their weekly truck delivery with products. The last time FFXI got a truck delivery was in 2013. Now they are pulling products from the top shelves and they are running out of anything to put out. We have become more of a gas station I think. Everything is overpriced and you have to check the dates because there is no telling how long it's been there. They also don't carry everything you want, but they have enough of it to save you a trip into town.
By axetofall 2022-05-24 13:53:08
Don't buy FF16, or at least don't buy it in the first month if you plan to get it (even though it looks terrible). Because first month sales are huge to a ceo.
I don't think we can do much, they will manufacture FFXVI's success the same way they did it for FFXIV 2.0 even if it's bad, which it very probably will be.
Sprinkle a bit of Yoshida crying and saying he hasn't eaten nor slept for a decade, add a bunch of microtransactions and you have a success with no effort.
I stopped buying FF games since FFXV and I quit XI last year even though I can't find a game even seemingly close to it, sadly. I did my part, won't change a thing.
lol you're salty as ***
By Draylo 2022-05-24 14:04:22
Most people are right now, stop acting like that is somehow uncalled for or rare. Many people loved/love this game and want to see it do well. Apparently the will is there but SE and most likely Yoshida, dont want it to do as well as it can.
By Draylo 2022-05-24 14:05:34
How much time have you spent reverse engineering FFXI, analyzing FFXI network traffic, or doing anything that would give you this knowledge? Do you have any concrete reason to believe playonline would effect anything inside FFXI? The only part of playonline that remains when the game launches is a single structure that gets passed off. Private servers don't even use playonline to launch the main client. Why do you feel so confident speaking as if your completely unsubstantiated thoughts are fact, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about?
This is the point I've been preaching for ages. MXI has existed for half the game's lifespan at this point iirc. "Decoupling" is just creating a series of web services and a new launcher.
It's not an insurmountable task. It's a task with measurable requirements and a fixed budget. Realistically it's more web development than anything. Protocols like JWT, OAuth, etc make authentication relatively trivial..
I'd hazard a guess that it's nowhere near as difficult as they make it out to be. More likely is they don't want to risk a 100-200k investment and hope people will just quit playing.
I've also made the point that the XI community will buy just about anything they sell. So the opportunity to generate increased revenue for an undertaking like this is there.
Start the petition, ill sign it! They should know how many want an expansion or would be willing to pay for extras like race changes where they commented they would like to see if theres demand.
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1497
By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-05-24 14:47:43
If NA (or really non-JP) wants have a chance at making an impact on expressing demand, they would have to be properly organized. Between here, BG wiki, and reddit we already have 3 different community hubs. I'm sure there are more as I browse BG articles but usually not forums, I post here occasionally, and barely know anything of the reddit community.
The AMA showed off how unorganized and fractured the reddit experience was for a fair amount of people.
If we take them at their word (which people clearly don't) then we'd have to put together something on their official forums. One of the biggest problems I see there, other than its setup is mediocre, is that a fair amount of people are banned AF on the official forums. I assume these are the more passionate and outspoken members of the community and thus we are probably missing key and vital members of our communities.
I don't have a conclusion statement. I don't know the answer to trying to get their attention, but I'd love to see this game get a second wind. Anyone with suggestions, it seems like the time is now...before they blow all their extra money on NFTs.
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Bahamut.Brixy
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
By Bahamut.Brixy 2022-05-24 15:00:00
It would never happen, but having a month or two where everyone decided to drop all their subscriptions would be interesting. Money talks louder than words. It would be hilarious to see RMT shouting and nobody actually playing to buy their services.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2022-05-24 15:38:12
If people did that, they'd take it as a sign that FFXI is dead and just cancel it entirely. There is no path that we players can take that will make them give it an actual budget again.
If anything was to change, it'd require a big mindset shift from the SE bigwigs in charge of project prioritization, and none of them are people we can reach.
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Valefor.Esdain
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1154
By Valefor.Esdain 2022-05-24 16:04:36
Question: Do dev kits explode after use? Why are they said to be somehow rare?
I mean I get that no more will be made by Sony or whatever, but what happened to the ones they used to begin with?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2022-05-24 16:07:21
They're like 20+ years old now, and everything wears down, especially with use. They're probably just old and failing, and they don't know how to perfectly repair them.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Odin.Lusiphur 2022-05-24 16:07:46
A lot of PS2 dev kits are likely snatched up by retrogaming collectors for "muh museum."
Valefor.Esdain
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1154
By Valefor.Esdain 2022-05-24 16:10:10
I guess that's fair. PS2 limitations and spaghetti code. The anchor around FFXI's neck.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2022-05-24 16:18:08
I guess that's fair. PS2 limitations and spaghetti code. The anchor around FFXI's neck.
The scapegoat(s). Easily remedied. Simply by being willing to spend resources.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 176
By Asura.Yottaxa 2022-05-24 16:19:29
Dumb question, what makes a ps2 dev kit - a ps2 dev kit? In this modern era, what about them can’t be virtualized or emulated or whatever? Is it the physical ps2 hardware? Is it impossible to just emulate? It kinda gets old to keep hiding behind this “PS2 limits” tagline.
It seems so absent minded in the gaming industry, that if this is your “unfixable” crutch / huge problem, not to be at least activly working on this issue… or bring in experts… They literally have been off the ps2 / xbox plaforms for 7 or is it 8 years!
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2022-05-24 16:21:22
A "Dev kit" is just a specialized version of that console. That's all. it just has more stuff on it.
They can convert essentially any pc into a new dev kit, if they wanted to spend the $1000 for the parts.
(it's not quite that simple, but it is) https://www.retroreversing.com/playstation-2-development-hardware
Hello all!
In light of the upcoming 20th anniversary for FFXI, Square-Enix will be gracing us with their presence for an approximately 90 minute live event where the producer and director will be answering questions from the community!
Please see here for details, as well as below for our blurb on the subject:
Quote: We are pleased to announce that the Final Fantasy XI Development Team will be holding an AMA (Ask Me Anything) within this subreddit on May 23rd in celebration of the 20th anniversary! Square Enix has graciously agreed to once again work with us in coordinating this AMA on r/ffxi. Stay tuned and Producer Akihiko Matsui and Director Yoji Fujito will be answering your questions on the 23rd.
When: May 23rd at 6:30 p.m. PDT / 9:30 p.m. EDT
Where: r/ffxi (pinned thread)
Who: Producer Akihiko Matsui and Director Yoji Fujito
If you ever wanted to ask the Development Team a question, this will be your opportunity! We also recommend spreading the word about this AMA in advance, as it is a live event and is within a limited time window like most AMAs.
We look forward to sharing this opportunity with you all!
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