New Impeachment Scam Thread. Nice People Only.

Jim Jordan’s Speech About the Whistleblower Prompts Laughter at Impeachment Hearing
Seattle Stranger.

Its paraphrased first, them quoted.

Paged!

There are a lot of reasons for people to hate on Trump. If anyone hates him for being uncontrollable, it's the establishment Republicans. Everyone else hates him for his long laundry list of cruel, corrupt, inept behavior and decisions.

Loving him because he can't be controlled is admitting you're given to his cult of personality.

Not quite-- the media is overwhelmingly made up of neoliberals, which ideologically make up most of both parties, as well as independents. Media dominance is driven by money, and that's a problem with nearly every media outlet (NPR and PBS excluded since they're not profit driven).

It's worth recognizing the difference between leftists and neoliberals, since it's the main divide in the party, which became most apparent during the 2016 primaries between Hillary and Bernie. In the current primary, it's visible between Bernie/Warren and the rest of the candidates. Meanwhile, on the right, Trump and his crew are not of the same ideology as McConnell and the other establishment Republicans, but the division isn't as pronounced since there's much more overlap in their goals.

?

In the American political spectrum, leftism and neoliberalism are not mutually-exclusive terms. Leftism is a very broad designation and certainly fits the bill for many of the largest media outlets. The media isn't exactly extolling the virtues of capitalism and bashing socialism like you would expect neoliberals to do. Sure, they all benefit from free-market capitalist practices, but so do Bernie and Warren.

If only because in the US, "left" and "liberal" became synonymous in most political discourse, whereas elsewhere they are distinguished (in part due to many countries having more than two parties). If you (and Nausi) wanna say that most major media outlets (CNN, NBC, etc) skew in favor of Democrats, then I agree.

These media outlets don't have to hit us over the head with overt neoliberal messaging to be blatantly neoliberal, but their business structures depend on neoliberal practices and ideology, and their leaders are very much neoliberals. Bernie and Warren benefiting to whatever degree from free-market capitalist practices doesn't make them neoliberals, of course, when their ideologies and platforms are explicitly much further left.

More simply, whether or not you or I agree on the exact use of terminology is less to the point than agreeing most major media outlets and politicians are largely guided by money & markets and do not want a major overhaul of the economic system that they clearly benefit from and can, to a degree, control.

They are all leftists. Some maybe have the flair of mao and some of Stalin, but they are all radicals. Raised on the ideology of the likes of alinsky and ayers.

They all seek the ring of power and the authority to silence their critics, render them defenseless, and ruin them with punitive economic measures. They fundamentally believe america is unjust, and must be remade so that its citizens cannot embrace their own individuality.

They, are the governing CLASS, and their class makes them better than us. Thats their most consistent argument against trump amd the motives behind it all including this impeachment scam. He doesn’t belong there, hes not part of the class.

These people will literally destroy the world if they gain power over it. Grinding the wheels of capitalism and progress to a halt because the preservation of their class requires competition to be extinguished. This will sentence billions to starvation and death. Thats what always happens when radical left wing authoritarians come to power.

lol, the fearmongering is unreal sometimes.

Eh, I'll agree with a portion of that, but I really don't think the major media outlets would be that badly hit by an overhaul of the economic system. They already benefit from being in bed with Washington's elite, and I would expect them to continue to scratch each other's backs to keep the money flowing in a society where the government controls the faucet.

I should add that when i say leftist i am referring to people who believe both in systems of great authoritarian power AND people who believe in predominantly collectivist economic identity. This is the us democrat party.

This as opposed to people who don’t believe in powerful government authorities and subscribe to predominant economic practices that exercise individuality. Right wingers.

Thats how you boil the 2 axis compass down to left and right.

At least economically speaking, we're not heading anywhere near a situation where a right-wing authoritarian would be in a position to take power. The American left is heading in that direction, and they already have the propaganda arm in place to do it.

Before you go there, yeah, I know people like say Trump is authoritarian and literally Hitler because they don't actually know Trump and they don't actually know Hitler, but Trump is deregulating the crap out of everything. That's not exactly the mark of an authoritarian. To be fair, he has some policies that dot all over the political spectrum, but still.

Right wing authoritarians dont really exist. You cannot BE a pure right winger and believe in a powerful government authority. The idea of economic individualism is not compatible with a highly authoritative government BECAUSE a highly authoritative government:

1) requires a collective economic effort to fund it.
2) becomes a corrupt beuracracy because its nature disconnects it from the accountability of the free market.

Its hard to imagine a successful example of a all powerful government that progresses towards the goal of economic individualism, because such a goal would necessarily dissolve the all powerful government.

By that same reasoning. Its hard to imagine a successful society of economic collectivism that does not also embrace a strong central authority.

The hippie commune comes to mind BUT those don’t work on any massive scale because:

1) people without talent flock to them to leach off the resources of the productive.
2) capable people end up putting forth all the work but receive a vastly disproportionate amount of their own efforts.

Productive people seek more fertile systems and everyone left starves.

Well, the political spectrum is a finicky thing. From an American viewpoint we connect right-wing with economic freedom and left-wing with a government-controlled economy, but on a more holistic scale right-wing authoritarians can exist. Like I said, though, we're not really in a position where we have to worry about one coming to power here, so the point is moot.

I'd argue that they are resistant to any change when they're effectively on top already. All businesses, by default, fear uncertainty. The corporate sponsors being upset by a candidate's policies is enough for beholden media outlets to start running pieces attacking those policies. The neoliberal elites in Washington aren't any different in this regard, since they are just as dependent on corporate funding as the media.

I cant really think of any highly authoritative economic individualism examples. Nazi germany was an economic collectivist state. There was no, everyone takes care of his own family, it was the “bundle of sticks” *** which is socialism.

Thats why I always chuckle when people say hitler was on the right.

I mean a national socialist is more right than an international communist, but literally everything is.

Thats why media is now controlled by what 6 corporations now instead of 100s (50 years ago)?

American left vs right is very different then European left vs right and since most of the present leftists are actually anti-american communists it's natural for them to think the European point of view is applicable.

Today "conservative" in the USA is the classical liberalism where maximum personal freedom and responsibility with minimal government intrusion was idealized. This is a large shift from the very old "right" of the Revolutionary war period which were authoritarians that believed a strong central authority was needed to dictate moral and ethical behaviors.

Funny ... how today's "left" is actually the revolutionary war periods "right".

Day three of the impeachment scam.

Will the pencil neck liar, move the needle?

Doubtful.

Here’s a summary so far:

Taylor said that
He heard from his aid that (3 months after he heard it)
The aid overheard a phone call that
The president allegedly said he only cared about investigating Biden.

This is that basis for impeachment from Wed’s testimony.

Bloenard Glormpf is finished!

Topic: Impeachment.

Not economic theory.

Thanks for dragging the topic back Nausi.

I figured a bit of drift during the intermission in the testimony was expected.

It's all connected anyway as both sides get into a fencing match. While the Democrats maintain control over the evidence presented, the Republicans switched out some of their personal and it's good to see the testimony get destroyed during cross examination.

New transcript is out of Trump’s first call with Zelensky.

In his first conversation with Zelensky, Trump invited him to visit the WH, so there goes the Democrat talking point that Trump was dangling a WH meeting as leverage to get Zelensky to investigate its meddling in our 2016 elections.

Lefties are lying to you about what evidence they have.

They have no evidence, only hearsay.

Trump was dangling a WH visit and the foreign aid in exchange for a bogus investigation into his political opponent. Releasing a meaningless call 3 months before the bribery started means absolutely nothing.

Rumor is that yivanovich will cry today on the stand.

Take THAT Blumpf!

Trump literally just engaged in witness intimidation during the testimony, add that to the impeachment articles. Please, keep live tweeting attacks on the witnesses, dummy.

Yep, Trump released the transcript...which differs significantly from the initial summary of the conversation that the White House released in April. Trump had initially spoke about "rooting out corruption" on the phone call, yet that was mysteriously missing from this new "transcript."

Doubt that, but her and others did respond to Trump attacking her on twitter. The attempted intimidation tactic was one more failure for Trump.