Lilith HTBF

Sticking to E on PUP, that N was crazy, but many props.

I'm in the process of devising a viable strategy to dual-box this consistently on Normal with a PLD and a COR, and I want to share some fight-mechanic-related observations that may not yet have been detailed in-full. I'd love to see others use this to come up with creative ways to take it down fast.

This will also answer some of the questions on the last page.

The mechanics in this fight are very unique, especially when it comes to enmity and the ability to use multiple trust-parties. It's a lot more flexible than initial observations and attempts let me to believe. Here goes:

1. Generally, When you see the encircling gyves "attacking" animation it means that they are "activated" and that they will attack anyone who runs within 6 Yalms of them. Activation does not mean you're being attacked, only targeted, per se.

2. The activation mechanic is a bit odd, it appears they only become activated when a player with enmity on Lilith is within a certain distance of one. I didn't note the specific distance, but I observed that if I stood in the dead center, none were "activated".

3. The encircling Gyves' Auras are upgraded in the same manner as the spawned ones in higher difficulties, but their enmity mechanics are much different. I don't recall the spawned Gyves ever auto-attacking.

4. Importantly, the Aura of the encircling Gyves hits anyone in the BC, irrespective of enmity. Their auto-attacks also hit anyone irrespective of enmity, when activated, but the Spawned Gyves only apply an aura on those with enmity on Lilith.

5. Attacking a spawned Gyve or attacking a Spitewarden does not give enmity on Lilith. You can and defeat either as an outside-party participant and still retain the ability to reform the party to summon trusts.

6. The auras of all gyves are smaller than their attack range at 5. You can be attacked by them and out Aura range.

7. Importantly, none of Lilith's attacks, including meteor, hit anyone outside of the party that has enmity on her, however; all of the Spitewardens' attacks hit everyone in the bc.

8. I'm about 90% certain you can call for help on the Spitewardens. This is kind of important. I know you can with Lilith. Doing so would allow your tank keep hate on Lilith and Spitewardens, while still giving your outside members the ability to form up and get trusts out later. I have no idea if calling for help on the Spitewardens impacts the loot pool's available slots. If it does, it sounds like a new mechanic. The same unknown applies to killing them claimed in a separate party. There's a good change that it's a simple flag set at the "BC level". Calling for help on Lilith does nix all but personal drops, however.

9. The Spitewardens and Lilith link initially to whomever has hate on Lilith when spawned, but upon reset they return to their fetters like the Disjoined ??? mobs. They can be pulled separately. I'm not sure how far apart they need to be for this to work and whether they still technically link, but they do both have a similar aggro range of less than 20.

10. Alternatively, you can aggro Lilith on pretty much any job with reasonable magic defense bonus and DT and hold her indefinitely. Her auto-attacks are weak on normal. If you were inclined to, you could Spawn the Wardens outside of or on the edge of the arena, sack her away, and kill them with your outside party, though the CFH method is probably faster.

Have fun!

It's probably a lot simpler, i.e. Differences in character model height. Galka vs. Taru, etc. The "Doughnut" is real as the aura's range is smaller than max melee range. Maju-tier coding excellence. It can be avoided altogether by splitting parties, if you're inclined to do so.

Do you need to split parties tho?

Can't you simply pull Lilith on tank and dont do anything on other party members, then let her spawn gyve, then sack her away from it, still without doing anything with other party members. Then when she is far away with tank, kill gyve, then kill her with everyone, then hold phase 2 on tank again, wait for Spitwarden and kill Spitwarden, kill phase 2 Lilith?

Does meteor work against the Gyves?

With merc as prevalent as it is in XI, why do you think locking specific pieces behind D or VD would lower queues?

The players soloing now would just solo the easy drops and merc the rest. It'd likely take longer to get 9/9 and stop clogging the queue, due to more-common E/VE drops taking up D/VD slots.

So tank just has to survive long enough to spawn gyves, other party kills gyves THEN they can start curing the tank? I guess the main healer can stay in tank’s party and melee split out, right?

How many gyves have to be killed on N to make the 1 warden targetable?

+1 on that question, also just tank on PUP, can hold her forever without healer.

Until doomed

So Automaton is immune to death but not doom? At least I think?

What master gear did you use mainly?

That's the part where I'm lacking.

I'm pretty sure you just have to kill the Gyve(s) the respective Spitewarden(s) spawned from to enable targeting. Unless it was coincidence, that's what I observed.


You probably want to kill the spitewarden if you're gonna reset, entirely, but you really shouldn't need to. Realistically, and in the worst case, the tank should be able to survive Lilith's and the (CFH'd) Spitewarden's attacks until its respective gyve is dead. Many jobs are able to do this. Since her meteor won't hit the outside party, and because you can actually damage the Spitewardens outside of the circle, I planned to fight them back by the entrance. There's zero danger in stacking.

I also don't know if the wardens stay stuck on the tank once a trust starts to cure said tank in response to an aggressive action (on Lilith or on a Gyve) or if a paired in-party player-mage were to do the same while the tank was super-tanking. Fetters have always had weird enmity mechanics, so that should be tested too.

In reality, a PLD/RDM with a bit of automation, a good phalanx set, and a MDB build won't need outside attention. Something to assist with turning when she charms and lowering your max hp when she readies the 3/4th move might be advisable. You'll want to be able to feed her TP to spawn them, in the least.


Maybe - I haven't tried. Post WotG SE really loves party hate and the less I have to contend with meteor, the more I enjoy logging in.

Youtube video description:

So if on Normal there is only one spitwarden I still need to wait and kill all types of gyves in phase 1, because I dont know which spitwarden will come out in phase 2?

Oh thanks, not used to reading those haha.

Now a different question: in the event that you just farm E and aren't using Overdrive every run, what would you be using?
I seem to have no problem surviving even in mostly damage gear but my damage is really low it seems and I'm not sure I can just go full puppet DD and survive (I'll be checking the PUP threads tomorrow morning, too, as I haven't checked in a few months). Bruiser has been underwhelming so far but I know it's due to my master gear, basically.

Also what are the Taeon augments? I guess I need to farm a 4th set.

Thank you for all of the valuable information on this fight! Never considered having the “DD” split party once fomors pop to get their own trusts and handle them alone. In D and VD that could make a lot of sense since the healers typically are SCH and Geo which makes it tough to cover everyone.

With a setup of SCH PUP RUN GEO COR BRD how do you guys handle the fomor Aquila? She seems to spam some magic aoe which also can paralyze and other ***and the SCH nor Geo are able to silence her. I guess dropping and making a trust side party could work but was wondering what people were doing who weren’t making side Party.

Using the Bruiser automaton with Light/Wind/Fire and Companion's Roll you can get like 4-5 min clears even without OD.

The main issue with the main DD puppet (VE/SS) is that its TP speed is pretty slow without Inhibitors, but those very same Inhibitors make it skillchain Gravitation which massively heals Lilith.

Taeon pieces are all augmented with Accuracy/Double Attack/Damage Taken-.

run tank lilith with 3 lux for 0 tp gain on melee hits. MB until fetter#1 spawns. kill fetter then pup pull add outside while party pop and kill 2nd fetter/add. then kill add#1 with pup tanking it

correct

Automatons are pretty much only immune to certain death effects, like the "Death" spell, Ahriman Deathly Glare and possibly Thar She Blows, not death effects in general. Ka-thwack, Zantetsuken X, Endeath, Extremely Bad Breath etc. and any Doom all have full effect on Automatons just like real players.

Thanks for the heads up!

You guys make it look so simple put every pug I do we’ve been wiping with that setup (actually been using a bard instead of thf). Aquila add aoes spells spells and para and the galka add does mdb down on rune who then gets Merced by Lilith and galka. Then Pup can’t get hate on fomor to tank it away from Lilith and other fomor.

Just trying to figure out what I’m missing. Either too many people soloing so not learning the fight mechanics or this ***is just evil or probably both... sorry sounding frustrated but with the lines was kinda hoping to kill this to then be able to complain about drop rates lol.

Thank you!

I had a friend come COR and give me rolls, it indeed made E very quick, even for my subpar PUP. I'll look into making a new Taeon set, I kind of overlooked it as I was mainly PUP tanking and had Rao set already.
I used the same attachments and it was already faster than what I had tried earlier (I had one less inhibitor).

Do COR rolls transfer over like pro/shell, reraise, sublimation etc.? Or have to reroll inside the HTB?

I'm pretty sure you lose it upon zoning but it may have been updated, I haven't paid attention last Dyna.

He buffed inside. Just /COR and try zoning in an easy HTB?

So you know.. pro/shell/refresh/regen go across zones.

Rolls wear upon entry.

Subjugating Slash does 75% on N, not 37.5%.

Ok, had my 97 cor alt ready to roll me before entry, but nvm.

Am I misunderstanding the note on the BG wiki Lilith page saying that her all of her TP move enfeebles are irresistible? I've definitely resisted the likes of Durance Whip and Moonlight Veil.