Which Runes To Use? Gathering Info.

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Which Runes To Use? Gathering Info.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 15:05:57
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Hi guys, I'm new to Rune Fencer so I've been researching enemies to find out which Runes I should be using. However, there's so many enemies it's impossible to retain all the information without putting it all in to one place. This is an attempt to gather all the best Runes for every given situation based from logical sense and other's experiences. The "Rune Fencer Quiz" served as inspiration for this.

I'd like to do this in three stages:

1) Which Rune Do I Use If I Want To Resist "Status Effect"?
2) Which Rune Do I Use If I Want To Lower Damage Of A Monster Family?
3) Which Runes Do I Use In Special, Endgame Fights Which Differ From Those Listed In 2?

Already started with #1, but I'm sure there's some status effects missing. Would be grateful if you can add any that are. #1 is taken mostly from FFXIcyclopedia's answers to the RUN quiz.

1) Status Effects

"Virtuoso" is the element the monster uses, so it gives you protection to said element.

"Stomach" is the element the monster cannot stomach, so it gives you the element to weaken it.

RUNE----- Virtuoso----- Stomach----- Status Effects
---- ---- ---- ----
Ignis Ice Fire Paralyze, Bind, Frost, Eva Down, AGI Down
Gelus Wind Ice Silence, Gravity, Choke, Def Down, VIT Down
Flabra Earth Wind Slow, Petrify, Rasp, Acc Down, DEX Down
Telus Thunder Earth Stun, Shock, MND Down
Sulpor Water Thunder Poison, Drown, STR Down, Atk Down, M. Def Down*
Unda Fire Water Addle, Amnesia, Virus, Burn, Nocturne, MAB down, INT Down
Lux Dark Light Blind, Bio, Sleep, Dispel, Geist Wall, Drain, Curse, Doom, Zombie, M. Eva Down, HP Down, MP Down, CHR Down, Absorbs
Tenebrae Light Dark Dia, Repose, Finale, Charm, Lullaby, Sheep Song, MACC Down


2) Monster Family (standard)

This may take time to complete, and it must be finished before we can focus on special boss fights. I'll be listing them in order of how they appear in BGwiki Bestiary Page. An example below of what each entry will look like. Only including TP moves/spells the Rune protects against, as well as any status effects. List may also include moves restricted to NMs from earlier content.

Family: Runes -- Moves -- Status

Crab: Sulporx3 -- Bubble & Venom Shower -- Poison

**In case of multiple choice, decide if mitigating damage is more important than protecting against debuffs.

--------------------------------------------------
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 15:18:33
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Second post will ask questions about particular status effects and monster families. It will be edited when questions have been answered. Can also serve as a place for special boss fights.

Mid Tier NMs

[Delve] Mastop: Can inflict AoE Addle + Stun, Slow Silence Sleep Dispel Break Plague Def Down & M.Def Down. Has access to Booming Bombilation and spells. Unda Telus Flabra Gelus Lux Sulpor are our options. Breakga is the worst = Flabrax3. Otherwise consider Unda Gelus Lux to cover more range: Virus Addle Silence Def Down Sleep & Dispel.

[Sinister Reign] Rosulatia: Flabrax3 to negate Stone spells, slow & petrify. If Dryad's Kiss cannot be dispelled, switch to Tenebrae for possible Charm. She can also do AoE Paralyze (ignis). -- Infected Illusion, Wildwood Indignation

------------------------

High Tier NMs

*These are from Ruaumoko's BGwiki guide found here: Quiescence: Rune Fencer Guide


Shiraj's Geas Fete Runes & Barspells

As stated in the title, this information can be credited to Shiraj of Asura. Descriptions have been condensed some, although key information remains.


---Much thanks to everyone who contributed information to the collection!---
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 Ragnarok.Casey
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-11-16 16:09:32
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Add: Sulpor for Attack Down (leeches)

you can resist it most of the time with 3x Sulpor + barwatera from WHM or Water Carol II. The caveat is it seems that you have to do a full resist of the damage to resist Attack Down, if you don't full resist, it appears you just get hit with the debuff anyway. Probably this is because the Attack Down seems to be additional effect to the damage -- but I could be wrong.

Lux runes should help with Curse/Doom resist, seeing as those are traditionally dark based.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 16:11:48
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Ragnarok.Casey said: »
Add: Sulpor for Attack Down (leeches)

you can resist it most of the time with 3x Sulpor + barwatera from WHM or Water Carol II. The caveat is it seems that you have to do a full resist of the damage to resist Attack Down, if you don't full resist, it appears you just get hit with the debuff anyway. Probably this is because the Attack Down seems to be additional effect to the damage -- but I could be wrong.

Lux runes should help with Curse/Doom resist, seeing as those are traditionally dark based.

I was not sure if status like Attack Down could be resisted, so I'd like to add that #1 section. Does it do the same with other stat down effects?

Thanks for the Lux confirmation. I assumed but didn't want to put it in without confirming. I added Behemoth/Elasmoth just now, so let me know if anything is wrong. Cheers.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-11-16 16:20:27
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
I was not sure if status like Attack Down could be resisted, so I'd like to add that #1 section. Does it do the same with other stat down effects?

Yes they can be resisted, and yes they all have elements, some quite unexpected. Each stat seems to have an element associated with it and thus the debuff is the strong element.

Defense = Earth, Defense Down = Wind.
Attack = Fire, Attack Down = Water
Evasion = Wind, Evasion Down = Ice
Accuracy = Thunder, Accuracy Down = Earth
Magic Evasion = Light, Magic Evasion Down = Dark

Magic Defense Down is Water, I've experimented with it a bunch and I can land it on everything except Fish and Water Elemental's.

Those are the ones I've nailed so far, the ones I'm not sure about are Magic Accuracy Down and Magic Attack Down.
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 Asura.Tydis
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By Asura.Tydis 2018-11-16 16:22:23
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My guess for Magic Accuracy down would be fire but that's due to Addle being fire based.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-11-16 16:25:12
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Every stat(acc/atk, str/dex, etc) has an associated element. The status effect that reduces that stat will be the element that is strong to the stat's element.

Take accuracy. It's thunder associated. So acc down would be earth based. And thus resisted by Flabra Runes, which increase earth resist.

You can apply this to basically every stat down in the game, str/hp/mp, etc.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 16:25:16
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
I was not sure if status like Attack Down could be resisted, so I'd like to add that #1 section. Does it do the same with other stat down effects?

Yes they can be resisted, and yes they all have elements, some quite unexpected. Each stat seems to have an element associated with it and thus the debuff is the strong element.

Defense = Earth, Defense Down = Wind.
Attack = Fire, Attack Down = Water
Evasion = Wind, Evasion Down = Ice
Accuracy = Thunder, Accuracy Down = Earth
Magic Evasion = Light, Magic Evasion Down = Dark

Magic Defense Down is Water, I've experimented with it a bunch and I can land it on everything except Fish and Water Elemental's.

Those are the ones I've nailed so far, the ones I'm not sure about are Magic Accuracy Down and Magic Attack Down.

Thanks so much! Going to add this info to the OP. If we can get someone else to confirm the others that would be awesome.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 16:39:28
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Added them to the OP. Only runes that do not have some form of stat down are Telus, Unda and Tenebrae for now.

Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Every stat(acc/atk, str/dex, etc) has an associated element. The status effect that reduces that stat will be the element that is strong to the stat's element.

Take accuracy. It's thunder associated. So acc down would be earth based. And thus resisted by Flabra Runes, which increase earth resist.

You can apply this to basically every stat down in the game, str/hp/mp, etc.

You able to confirm anymore of these effects?

Also, is there a Rune to help with Terror? Is it the same as Stun?
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-11-16 16:53:51
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You can work a lot of them out from the element the Geo spell is.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 17:01:28
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Ok so I'm looking at geo spells on bgwiki (i do not have GEO leveled).

Let me see if I get this right. Indi-regen & refresh are light based, so HP and MP down would be dark based (Lux)?

To answer Saevel's going off of GEO spells:

MACC down light based as Indi-Focus is dark based. (Tenebrae)
MAB down fire based as Indi-Acumen is ice based. (Unda)

Going off this info I'm going to add as many other stat down effects to #1 soon.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-11-16 17:15:13
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I more meant the debuffs. But it's not fool proof. Like Malaise is thunder but Saevel says he found magic def down to be water.

Fade (MAB down) is fire.
Slip (acc down) is earth.
Vex (magic acc down) is light.
Languor (magic evasion down) is dark.
Wilt (Atk down) is Water.
Frailty (Def Down) is wind.
Torpor (eva down) is Ice.

But then Addle/Nocturne are Fire.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 17:24:18
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Ok confused as Saevel said Evasion Down is ice based but you say Slip is earth?? It says Slip reduces accuracy.
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-11-16 17:28:05
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Oh Slip is accuracy down. A mistake on my part. Torpor is eva down which is ice.

But you can see the association people mentioned. Accuracy is associated with thunder. Thunder is weak to earth and that's what acc down seems to be.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 17:32:55
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Sylph.Reain said: »
Oh Slip is accuracy down. A mistake on my part. Torpor is eva down which is ice.

But you can see the association people mentioned. Accuracy is associated with thunder. Thunder is weak to earth and that's what acc down seems to be.

Ok sweet I'm getting it now. Are there any other special ones breaking the rules than the ones already mentioned?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-11-16 17:56:21
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Terror is a... weirdo. There are some forms of terror that appear to be flat out unresistable via meva/ele resist(absolute terror, etc) And others that are easily resisted.(The Qiqirn terror move comes mind.. Faze I think?)

And there's a lot of uncertainty about the element for those that can be resisted. I've heard dark, I've heard earth along with claims that resist petrify works on it, and so on. I'd love to see things verified, but the testing is a pain in the ***, and... which terror do you test? Cause they aren't all the same.

Another thing to consider is that the same status effect can have different elements depending on the source... This is a relatively rare case though.

An example would be sleep from the spell sleep, and sleep from Lullaby or repose. The former is dark based, and the status is generally considered dark based, but lullaby and repose are light based sleeps...
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-11-16 17:58:51
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What Martel said. The spell element isn't always the debuff element. Can read more here https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110245-Debuff-Elemental-Affinity
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-11-16 18:33:11
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Magic Attack is ice, which would make Magic Attack Down fire.

My info comes from me testing WS's with debuffs. Like I had this idea if using shatter soul to make SCs on apex. Could never get the effect to stick on crabs or water eles. Can't get shield break to stick on wind mobs, that kind of stuff.
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-11-16 18:43:21
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I was able to land Shattersoul's Magic Def. Down on a water elemental in sky. I think for crabs it's possible that Bubble Curtain prevents it from landing though. Haven't tested though.
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By Ragnarok.Galiber 2018-11-16 19:01:54
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Thanks, I've been wanting to do something similar myself, good job!

Overall I just usually use Tenebrae for the MP gain with Vivacious Pulse. Sometimes use Ignis if I don't wanna get para'd too much.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-16 19:24:11
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Added more stat down effects to #1. Put an asterisks next to magic defense down as it breaks the laws of nature. Please let me know if anything isn't in place. Can start working on #2 if the status effects are ok.

Edit: "Beast" is complete.
 Ragnarok.Neyochimaru
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By Ragnarok.Neyochimaru 2018-11-17 11:30:05
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Tenebrae = Lullaby resist.
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 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2018-11-17 13:51:55
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Terror is a... weirdo. There are some forms of terror that appear to be flat out unresistable via meva/ele resist(absolute terror, etc) And others that are easily resisted.(The Qiqirn terror move comes mind.. Faze I think?)

And there's a lot of uncertainty about the element for those that can be resisted. I've heard dark, I've heard earth along with claims that resist petrify works on it, and so on. I'd love to see things verified, but the testing is a pain in the ***, and... which terror do you test? Cause they aren't all the same.

I actually did testing on the Blue Magic variants of Absolute Terror and Blistering Roar on Elementals in Sky awhile back, but went back right now to take pictures. Both spells are listed as Dark but:



Earth Elementals resisted both while they landed just fine on Dark Elementals. This is one of those odd cases since Absorbs on Dark Elementals bounce right off. I realize these are not the same as the ones from the NMs themselves, but it's something to think about.

For most cases though I've gone with "If the spell's only effect is the debuff, it will use the spell's element (Lullaby vs. Sleep / Blank Gaze vs. Dispel)" and "If the debuff is an additional effect, the debuff will be the element it's normally associated with". There are some out of the ordinary cases like the above and with spells like Pinecone Bomb or Impact.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Like I had this idea if using shatter soul to make SCs on apex. Could never get the effect to stick on crabs or water eles. Can't get shield break to stick on wind mobs, that kind of stuff.

Magic Def. Boost is associated with Water and Magic Def. Down is Thunder, I'm certain of this: M.Def Down on Thunder Trials, Malaise is Thunder. There is a hierarchy of Priority Buffs/Debuffs arbitrarily adhere to that isn't entirely researched so I wouldn't be surprised that what Reain said actually happened.
 Ragnarok.Casey
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-11-17 13:57:28
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Terror being stone makes sense, since you cant be petrified and terrored at the same time. It's probably just spaghetti code where they copied petrify and added an effect to stop animation
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2018-11-17 13:58:58
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For most end game content, you tend to stack Light/Dark runes unless you need to Gambit/Rayke something as most mobs are Dark or light based. Example: Omen NMs are darkness based and use dark-Moves. But overall, I can't say with a blanket statement on which runes to use because it depends on the monster your facing and/or the situation, sorry.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-11-17 14:28:32
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Sylph.Gobbo said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Terror is a... weirdo. There are some forms of terror that appear to be flat out unresistable via meva/ele resist(absolute terror, etc) And others that are easily resisted.(The Qiqirn terror move comes mind.. Faze I think?)

And there's a lot of uncertainty about the element for those that can be resisted. I've heard dark, I've heard earth along with claims that resist petrify works on it, and so on. I'd love to see things verified, but the testing is a pain in the ***, and... which terror do you test? Cause they aren't all the same.

I actually did testing on the Blue Magic variants of Absolute Terror and Blistering Roar on Elementals in Sky awhile back, but went back right now to take pictures. Both spells are listed as Dark but:



Earth Elementals resisted both while they landed just fine on Dark Elementals. This is one of those odd cases since Absorbs on Dark Elementals bounce right off. I realize these are not the same as the ones from the NMs themselves, but it's something to think about.

For most cases though I've gone with "If the spell's only effect is the debuff, it will use the spell's element (Lullaby vs. Sleep / Blank Gaze vs. Dispel)" and "If the debuff is an additional effect, the debuff will be the element it's normally associated with". There are some out of the ordinary cases like the above and with spells like Pinecone Bomb or Impact.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Like I had this idea if using shatter soul to make SCs on apex. Could never get the effect to stick on crabs or water eles. Can't get shield break to stick on wind mobs, that kind of stuff.

Magic Def. Boost is associated with Water and Magic Def. Down is Thunder, I'm certain of this: M.Def Down on Thunder Trials, Malaise is Thunder. There is a hierarchy of Priority Buffs/Debuffs arbitrarily adhere to that isn't entirely researched so I wouldn't be surprised that what Reain said actually happened.
This is an interesting case, and a strong mark in favor of Terror being earth based. Though I think it's going to need to be tested more broadly on actual monster used abilities to make sure that the blue spells aren't some kind of outlier.

As you noted, this doesn't mean the mob abilities are the same as the spell. Blue magic spells frequently differ from their monster used counterparts. Often significantly. For starters, I am very confident that monster used Absolute terror doesn't even have a meva check. Whereas the blue spell clearly does. I've done tests on for Absolute terror on Nauls with extreme levels of earth and dark resistance along with High meva+ gear, and bolstered idris geo spells and never managed a resist. vs a lvl 90 something mob. <,<

However, your findings may be directly applicable vs blue mage mobs in dynamis divergence. Since their blue spells might work the same as player cast ones, stacking earth resist could be a way to avoid a long terror on the NMs. Something that has happened to my namis group before and things kinda went to hell since the tank couldn't do anything to keep hate(happened right at the start of the pull too. Harsh.)
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By clearlyamule 2018-11-17 14:40:25
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There was already some testing done on this awhile back and the weirdness https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110245-Debuff-Elemental-Affinity
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-17 16:43:17
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I added Lullaby to the list. Going to work on the next set of Monsters. Please let me know if anything is wrong and I'll be sure to correct it giving that you provided adequate explanation to why it needs changing.

Edit: Added Dispel and Geist Wall.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2018-11-17 16:49:32
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
However, your findings may be directly applicable vs blue mage mobs in dynamis divergence. Since their blue spells might work the same as player cast ones, stacking earth resist could be a way to avoid a long terror on the NMs. Something that has happened to my namis group before and things kinda went to hell since the tank couldn't do anything to keep hate(happened right at the start of the pull too. Harsh.)

When Non-Monster Enemies (like the Volte Mobs) use skills and spells the players have, they tend to behave exactly like ours with some exceptions (NIN's Mijin Gakure). Like Skillchain damage is calculated just like ours would, including Job Traits they would have. So I think it's very safe to assume Volte BLUs follow the same rules our BLUs do, which is nice because as you said, they could cause havoc if left unchecked.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-11-17 18:19:59
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Finished Lizards. Do Vermin another day.
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