A Swing And A Myth: Guide To Liberator

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A Swing and a Myth: Guide to Liberator
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 08:16:39
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To be blunt, I didn't know we were comparing doing a Light SC with Calad against a Dark SC on a scythe, I was merely referring to the general habit of having better 3+ step chains with a scythe than gswd, not discussing properties.

Also you completely went full boar on dissing Liberator's darkness SC potential, and ignore me saying flat out that I think Redemption is a much better option these days, no matter how much I love Liberator myself.

If you wish to question what are "good" scythe multistep darkness skillchains, then let's compare apples to apples and compare Scythe vs Gswd darkness chains, and then Scythe vs Gswd light chains. Not one against the other.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:02:15
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I did it, because that's not the first post from various people, who talk about Liberator specifically being good for self SCing in general and Darkness was mentioned more than Light. Im not gonna waste time searching specific posts now, unless you will tell me it never happened, but you know its not true, so I hope you wont argue about it.

If you mentioned Gsword vs Scythe tho. I think for Light SC Scourge > Resolution > Torcleaver is probably competitive to what Liberator can do and simple Torcleaver spam with Caladbolg can potentially beat Scythe skillchain too, depends how big is skillchain weakness on target.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 09:10:23
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SimonSes said: »
I did it, because that's not the first post from various people, who talk about Liberator specifically being good for self SCing in general and Darkness was mentioned more than Light. Im not gonna waste time searching specific posts now, unless you will tell me it never happened, but you know its not true, so I hope you wont argue about it.

If you mentioned Gsword vs Scythe tho. I think for Light SC Scourge > Resolution > Torcleaver is probably competitive to what Liberator can do and simple Torcleaver spam with Caladbolg can potentially beat Scythe skillchain too, depends how big is skillchain weakness on target.

I agree that Gswd has workable Light options in the 2 and 3 step format that extremely powerful. In fact, I'm currently strongly debating building a Ragnarok just to add that mix into my options even as a Calad owner. So on that front, no doubt we're on the same page.

I do think people generalize mythics a lot by saying "oh they're good for skillchains", its true. And when you're working with the attached WS (Insurgency) having so much potential not only for solo multistep light options, but also plays well with friends on that side, no doubt when comparing what Liberator can do, the stronger option is going to be light vs darkness.

But for some, in particular in Odyssey:Gaol fights where you're going to be lacking Hasso, that AM3 on a mythic can make up for less than ideal sets and making that chaining a thing that happens vs doesn't- and that's a big difference from comparing best option to another option that still works, just not as strong.

With strong enough sets and buffs, 3 and 4 step chains with Apoc or Redemption are quite possible and very productive as well, but I do think they require more. And for many, AM3 becomes a crutch to avoid truly analyzing sets and buffs to improve them, rather than a tool added to the mix in a positive way.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:20:30
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SimonSes said: »
What's that DPS store TP build for Liberator that is so much better in DPS than Sakpata? Attack capped and uncapped if possible. Im only getting 6-8% difference in damage compering 5/5 Sakpata and store TP build. Is this a difference you are talking about?
Using Flamma Head/hands, Hjarrandi body, Odyssean Legs with 8 STP augment, and Valorous feet with 8 STP augment, when a 60 STP Samurai roll is up I'm getting about 8.9% lower with 5/5 R20 Sakpata than full STP set when uncapped, 5.8% lower when capped. The differences increase to about 12.7% and 9.6% respectively if you don't have SAM roll for whatever reason or other.

Given that Liberator is already a bit behind Caladbolg in DPS, this much of a further drop when you have to play defensive is significant.

SimonSes said: »
Ok this is something that really gets me confused. What are those famous long Darkness skillchain with Liberator, that you keep talking about? Especially not involving "crap WSs"?
I never said anything about long Darkness SCs.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:39:16
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Asura.Geriond said: »
I never said anything about long Darkness SCs.

Fine, what are good darkness SCs with Liberator. Short or long w/e. Unless you just meant that you can make Darkness self SC at all with Liberator and you can't with Calad, so it automatically is better if Darkness SC is super effective? :)
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:41:37
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Neither, because I'm talking about making Darkness with others, not self-SCing.

If a mob takes significantly higher Darkness SC damage than Light SC damage (like 25% vs 100% or 50% vs 130%), you can use Entropy or Cross Reaper (preferably the latter) instead of Insurgency when applicable to participate in better SCs with others than Caladbolg can work with, and the SC damage will make up for them being a bit weaker than Liberator Insurgency.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:48:28
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Yes, the latter. If a mob takes say, 25% light SC damage but 100% darkness SC damage, you can use Entropy or Cross Reaper instead of Insurgency when applicable to participate in better SCs with others than Caladbolg can work with.

Well to be fair if you take other people into the equation, then Caladbolg can make a massive Darkness, since Torcleaver is Distortion/Light. So as closing WS to make Darkness with some Graviation WS Caladbolg/Torcleaver is actually very powerful. It's only a problem when you need to self SC and want Darkness. I agree Liberator is more flexible here tho, since you can use Distortion or Gravitation. That being said, if I would use Scythe to make Darkness skillchain with someone, because I need Gravitation WS, I wouldn't use Liberator probably, unless that's only REMA Scythe I have.
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:52:21
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This was just a comparison between Liberator and Caladbolg, not a comparison between Liberator and other scythes, though. I agree I'd probably use Anguta or Redemption if Darkness SC flexibility was important, but that wasn't the conversation.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 11:28:00
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Setting up lua for what Absorbs to swap in Liberator, I assume it does nothing for Absorb-Attri? Does it work for TP?
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By Nariont 2021-11-07 11:38:08
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Pretty sure its only for the base stat absorbs and maybe abs-acc, doesnt work on the rest
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By Kyniker 2021-11-07 11:45:58
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm gonna consider making Liberator, I'm really drawn to Redemption but the Chloris farm is just so damn awfull xD, I'm working towards the TP sets on the HighEnd DRK tread for Liberator, but I doubt I'll ever use it since all the content I do with DRK is Odyssey and Ambuscade V1VD, and without Sakpata I'll probably end as a floor tank
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2021-11-07 12:23:42
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Kyniker said: »
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm gonna consider making Liberator, I'm really drawn to Redemption but the Chloris farm is just so damn awfull xD, I'm working towards the TP sets on the HighEnd DRK tread for Liberator, but I doubt I'll ever use it since all the content I do with DRK is Odyssey and Ambuscade V1VD, and without Sakpata I'll probably end as a floor tank

You won't regret it, I'm switching between Calad and Lib depending what I'm doing. Redemption only useful in niche situations.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 12:31:52
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Nariont said: »
Pretty sure its only for the base stat absorbs and maybe abs-acc, doesnt work on the rest
That would follow with what I have found on wiki
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Category:Absorb_Spell#Equipment
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 12:33:10
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
You won't regret it, I'm switching between Calad and Lib depending what I'm doing. Redemption only useful in niche situations.

Its so interesting- I could say the exact same thing about Calad/Redemption and its Lib that has grown into more niche- but a lot depends on play style, typical buff situation you face, and content. DRK really has grown up in the past 5 years into a very complex and enjoyable DD in my book.
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 12:36:43
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In the world full of Savage blade spam Insurgency is nice for making lights off of it.
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