Does Playing FFXI Take Skill?

This again?

The "standing in one spot" is the perfect example of why this game takes literally zero skill

You just *** stand there. and hit buttons. Is typing a "skill" yeah, is reading a "skill" yeah.

RDM zipcna at 75 took actual skill(see; ability/capability) (without tools)

Same thing with "Veteran". "skill" is too broad of a term.

Is FFXI smigly based on my personal deeply-ingrained (but not consciously known) definition of smigly?

If you give me some reason it's smigly I'll just say it's not smigly and will never introspect as to what "smigly" actually means.

I will then say that "FFXI is a meaningless, low-tier game" because it doesn't meet my arbitrary definition of smigly.

If someone acts cocky with only 5 years of FFXI under their belt I'll just nod and pat their head.

It's cute.

I have zero issue with how people define "skill", personally.

But I do find it weird that people compare FF11 with FPS, competitive games or other action oriented MMO then made claims that people excels in those games would excel in FFXI instantly with a max geared character because of it's low reflex requirement.

They won't, and I'd be really really surprised if anyone can without prior FFXI experience.

"Skill" in this case is using the right thing at the right time. To prepare the right tools for the right problem. That's pretty much FFXI.

It's like playing Go. It takes "skill" in know what to do and when to do it. You don't need super reflex or whatever. Just enough brains to put things together and be prepared.

Considering the number of people who used Clipper/JA0wait to achieve what changing gear does, I'd argue that FFXI's difficulty is more about stupidity than lack of skill.

Hell, I saw a guy use Clipper a few days ago, ***was unreal.

this seems to boil down to a discussion of dexterity (finger speed, etc) versus knowledge(sets,mechanics,etc). I'd easily say that FFXI takes more research than most modern games because the answers aren't right there in front of you, ala FPS or fighter games, but is extremely low on the dexterity scale.

It doesn't help that you could be a complete expert on game mechanics, needs of certain fights, and the capabilities of differing jobs, yet because you use vanilla macros/gearsets you'll never get the performance of someone with less game knowledge but more add-on knowledge. It really creates multiple layers to our world, and most of us force that deeper layer on new players from moment one they either return or start the game...which I've seen often results in "copypasta" luas and no game knowledge of why they select a specific piece for a specific set- they just do it because their LS members told them its BiS.

Skill is such a variegated word. I really don't think its nearly specific enough for the discussion you want to have.

Takes skill to write code to play game for you while you watch anime.

Does it take skill to post pointless topics on an obscure forum ?

This...while I agree that FFXI requires less reflex than many other games and whether playing video game can be considered skill or not is debatable (not really interested in arguing semantics here), some of the statement about players from another competitive game get to perform at top end level right after they jump in with a max geared character is exaggerating, lol.

I think the amount RMEA you have defines your skill.

This isn’t every game?

Knowledge is power and experience is irreplaceable. Players who struggle to adapt gain the most from repeating content on the same job. A good leader pointing the group in the right direction makes everyone better. A poor leader brings any skilled players down with them.

Being able to research the gears you need to create good equip sets, and putting them into action, is usually the biggest hurdle. You could have solid reflexes, but no equipsets as your knowledge is limited. You could have the best gearsets made for you by someone who isn't, yet your reflexes will hold the character back from its potential.

Automated equipment changes require good sets and the knowledge of code to implement. Not everyone can do this, but it can make for smoother gameplay with fewer clicks. As long as the same goal is met (winning), it's neither more, or less skilled than anyone who plays vanilla. Only difference being (vanilla) they may have to work harder to match. Players who macro manually by typing and/or menu clicks, still need gearsets and better reflexes for long periods.

After all, it is a combination of knowledge, implementation, reflexes, decision-making, and teamwork. Finding what the player is comfortable with helps. Knowledge can be passed on, but knowing and doing are not the same. Everyone is different, and the term "skill" is subjective. Some are better soloers, others are better in groups. Some are excellent with time management, while others are wasteful. Qualities defining skill falls to the individual.

So no, I don't think anyone needs to be skilled to do the basics. Anything beyond that? They'll need some, but not a lot. And they'd need to be prepared to do the minimum they need to do. Not every job requires skill to play. The willingness to learn from defeats, and the job(s) they play, is enough to see them through. But it doesn't take any skill to be carried. It takes skill to punch above your weight and progress quicker than others thought possible. Skill makes the game quicker, but you're not driving an F1 car. It's not a race, so kick back and enjoy the scenery. Or not.

Yeah. I know for some (myself included), when you talk skill for video gaming, that's what's meant. As something balanced with knowledge. A turn based strategy game may take no dexterity to play - if you know what you want to do, you can do it, no question. Something like a fighting game, you may academically know what you want to do, but actually pulling it off may take practice.

FFXI takes a lot of knowledge to play well. That includes things like what gear sets to build and when to use them. To a large degree, that's how you win, as this is a game of stats versus stats. You can't outplay that, as you often can in games that lean more heavily on skill.

To me, it's not insulting the game, just categorizing.

No, not even close. Look at a game at the pinnacle of skill, something like StarCraft where they literally perform 600 actions per minute.

Then look at FFXI where I have completed every single thing in the game (up till i stopped giving a ***) with literally 2 macros.

Large difference.

DDR/Guitar Hero/Rock Band takes skill. Mobas take skill. FPS take skill.

MMO takes zero skill. CCG takes zero skill (ie; 100% luck)

That's reflex, lol. (And no, I'm not mad at people saying MMO/FFXI takes 0 skill or whatever.)

In real life we consider fixing a toilet, coding for a website, using Microsoft office "skill" and we put that on our resume. None of these needs reflex, just learned knowledge and practice.

So I feel the word "skill" can be used in something that's more than just reflex. In fact, irl most people used the term skill to describe knowledge in certain field.

If "skilled" can be used to describe someone's ability to play a video game, then it makes sense to apply that term to both reflex and knowledge in a video game.

Better question. Does it take skill to create stupid arguments about gaming and semantics?

I'd say its one of the few legitimate semantic arguments. The OP is defining skill within a limited set of parameters that aren't really used at all in this game, while asking in the same post if said game requires skill. Some others have posted different skill sets that are applicable to this game while at the same time admitting the the author's definition of skill doesn't come into play much.

interpersonal skills are the most important ones to develop in an MMO imo~

I'd say it depends on the job.

Puppetmaster is absurdly complex, it takes a good mind to really master Blue Mage and jobs like Ninja need really good reflexes.

You can have all the skill in the world and still not know how to mine for fish.

menu fantasy xi

I've been soloing really stupid stuff to get a better feel for Ninja. Lots of T1/T2/T3 Stuff in Zitah, T1-T2 Ru'Aun/Reisenjima. Not exactly the most efficient way of doing things. Yeah some of the fights take longer than they should, but I figure it's experience/something fun to do.

I need to do the same thing on RUN to suck less at it.

It isn't rocket science.
But it takes a bit more skill than buffing up/popping drinks/doing a 5 step on my WAR or DRG.

No it doesn't. You use San, sange, then proceed to five step with heishi. Recast San and repeat 3 more times during sange timer. Then you get mildly defensive for a second or two. Ninja does not take a large amount of skill, rather, I'd say you just need to be able to count from seven to one and know how many shadows each tp move can absorb. Ninja=math