Dev Tracker - Discussion

Don't jump the gun before we get the more detailed update update in a week.
It's very possible that this is just a MLv increase without the new mobs for exemplar points. Though those have already been said to be coming... they just never said if it's this update or a later one.

Will be nice if they don't go the apex route and give us something more along the lines of the stuff in odyssey. (e.g. lots of farmable camps all over a place instead of 7~8 mobs in a small area)
Or just a "new" zone that's the same as odyssey but without the time limit.
With TVR updates, it's possible to get a new "escha"-like zone with exemplar point heavy mobs all over.

Seems a few people are socially accepted here to jump the gun on topics. I think Sechs was just excited.

I do agree that an alternative method that isn't a lot less efficient for getting EP is a cool idea.

Without something new or something to keep up with the sharp upward curve of EP required for the next level, it's just going to entice people to find less-than-honorable methods to get EP. Cape? Campaign?

They do want people to buy from the bots. Useful bots stay subbed. They just don't admit it. Then a year later they throw you a bone with an EP cape. Like see, we heard you!

The biggest thing I want to see for any new possible Exemplar mobs is some targets that don't basically require the same support lineup to feasibly do them. At a certain point, all of the BRDs and CORs are going to be capped. Then what happens for people who don't roll with 2-3 alts to do a piss poor job of attempting to replace those missing people.

No one wants to do the Spire exemplar camps without them because it's frankly pretty miserable in comparison.

The issue with EPing isn't the lack of camps, but the fact that support jobs like BRD quickly cap out on EP because they're so in-demand (both for the EP itself, and for normal content, which incentivizes getting it ASAP).

This results in a severe lack of buffers after the first few weeks, which makes the plentiful Empty (like 15 full camps) and Gear (like 10 camps) spots inefficient, so weaker camps that are also used for JP get saturated.

I know many who believe this and at times, while it seems pessimistic, I honestly wouldn't be surprised in the very least if this was part of the strategic plan. Heck, a guy from higher up in Blizz was selling raid clears.


But man, you can get that old classic level 75 pre-sushi era feel for missing most of your hits and doing a WS every 30 seconds. Nostalgia is a heavy seller.

Exactly. There's also the whole effort v reward ratio.
If they gave us ultra-super-mega apex mobs, but those only gave you ~2x what a normal apex gave you... all with 50x the HP...
People are going to go farm the normal ones twice (or more) than the new "good" ones.

This is also why odyssey is good for exemplar points, the "low" amount of HP the mobs there have combined with the large amount of points they give you (atm) means an hour in odyssey is generally better than an hour on some apexes.
The time limit though makes odyssey not really the most viable source.

It was really odd of them to make D.Dynamis and Omen mobs give you all of 3 exmp, especially when MLv is going to increase to (likely) 99.
The whole current situation evokes the original, pre-everything, leveling. At least to me.
Perhaps they'll change that at some point to increase the lifespan of those content.

Or perhaps whatever content is coming down the line with the Voracious Resurgence (or however it's done).

I'd rather see it be preferable to use the job in actual content to get MLs and leave grinding Apex as the slow method. Sorta like turning in Job Points to unlock REMA rankings.

I'm honestly anticipating that the new content we'll be unlocking after completing the voracious resurgence storyline (the content that will enable us to upgrade empyrean to +3) may end up giving us all the exemplar points we'll need. One of the reasons we have issues farming exemplar points right now is a shortage of easily farmable camps. We can already get 35-45K exemplar points from a single Sheol - C run, but outside of Sheol-C the only other mobs that are high enough Ilvl are apex camps.

We haven't been given any specifics about how the upcoming content is going to work of course, but we do know that it's slated for release relatively soon. And if the scaling is correct, there should (hopefully) be plenty of trash mobs we'll have to kill for whatever tasks they put us up to while we collect the McGuffins needed for our empyrean upgrades. I'm keeping an open mind here, because exemplar points aren't really that hard to farm. We just need more high Ilvl trash mobs than we currently have access to, and that's something s-e can and probably will implement as time goes on.

I was actually thinking about that myself recently. They do have some potential for Voracious. I am not holding my breath but hoping some new zones come out of it that could tie into EP.

You're greatly exaggerating the differences. Promy Apex mobs have about double the HP of low 130s Apex (around 250k vs 130k) and give about double the EP. Odyssey mobs also have sbout half the HP as said lower Apex and give about 60% of the EP.

However, while Odyssey mobs might be comparable in terms of HP vs EP, proper Apex parties still give far more EP/hour for two reasons.

The first (and most significant) is the Odyssey parties generslly do not get very high EP chains, because there is often downtime caused by running between camps, killing NMs, rebuffing, or Agons. EP chains have no cap (or a very high cap) in their benefits and have a shorter limit, so they break fast if not killing constantly and are very significsnt.

The second is that you're usually focused on segments in Odyssey, not EP, meaning you usually have a tank that spends a lot of their time not helping with damage, and the COR doesn't give COR roll, a bigger buff for EP gain that offensive rolls.

A top tier Odyssey group gets you about 45k EP in 30 minutes, while a top tier Apex party can do upwards of twice that.

I was indeed using hyperbole. It was to illustrate the point that if they just add bigger and bigger apexes (which will also require buff jobs more and more, especially BRD) then there will inevitably deal with the tunneling of those jobs' availability for adequate farming as a resource; as well as the greater and greater HP bloat for less and less of a return.
Plus the burnout from people with BRD et al wanting to play literally anything else.

Also: I would push back slightly on the idea of needing a tank for segment farming. My group goes just full DDs with BRD+COR+healer and we net 900k~1M gil a run. But I will acknowledge that it's based on the quality of your DDs (and healer). Tank farming is definitely safer. (I can't seem to go below 200k segments, so I can't tell you how much that is in segments since I have long stopped paying attention a while ago. But I do notice that sweet even mil on the regular.)
Not trying to dickmeasure, just using my experience as a proof that it can be done with no tank effectively.

I cite Odyssey because at the moment it's one of the best exmp per kill we have, and because all the mobs give you a lot with little effort. (allowing for less stringent job choice) If they add a escha-like "new" zone filled with similar mobs, that would essentially be odyssey without the time limit, which at this juncture would be an ideal place to have.

So I wouldn't want more and more apex mobs everywhere, personally. I'd prefer a nontime-gated zone of chunkybois to murder with abandon. (like any of the RoV zones was for exp and, to a lesser extent, cap)

Of course, likewise thinking on the future... the pittance of exmp we currently get from apex and odyssey mobs is going to be an insane timesink for those 50+ MLvs.
So I would imagine that there will inevitably be something (or things) that will bring the grind down. (and thusly give MLv0 people an easier catch-up)
And it will most likely be after they add the whole swath of MLvs.
I just hope it's not like Abyssea exp parties 2.0.

Which you are very right. There is a difference between "Nice job to have" and "Not possible or practical without that job". Even in the 75 era, you could level up in parties just fine without a Bard... Bards were just very nice to have.

HP bloat isn't really the problem; as as long as you're able to keep chain going, double HP for double EP is better for EP gain.

The issue is evasion bloat.

You know, I have to say, you all should worry about that when we get there. If we reach a point where gaining EP becomes unbearably shitty SE can alter the rate or manner at which we gain it however they like or not at all, and in either case this speculation is pretty pointless.

Just see how it all goes and if it ends up poorly, tell them so.

even if they gave us free wardrobes and only monitize the new ones you know the'd just increase inventory strain even more so that we are quickly back where we are now or even worse off.

It's not SE that causes worsening inventory strain, it's the players. SE has been consolidating equipment sets more often over time, with Odyssey being the most prominent case yet.

It's players that cause it, always filling their inventories with as many situational pieces as possible for as many jobs as possible. If SE doubles inventory, players will double their situational pieces and/or jobs they gear up.

I for one am looking forward to being able to make more capes.

First to remax their new entire inventory wins

not even gonna try to deny it with a wardrobe 5 i'd move all my mog case items to it and for a 6 my satchel and mog house would merge and it'd save me 15 mins when i change to nin/blue/rdm/run/pld and i'd be back to 80/80 lol. and then i'd ask for a 7 and 8.

everyone would fill the space up eventually simply because it would still not be enough. this one isn't like most MMOs where you pick 1 class and thats it. there are 22(?) different jobs with 16 equipment slots that all can be switched out mid combat, of course ppl run out of space when you only hand them the sparse amount of inventory that we get.

the way this game is built would justify at least 1 bag for every job, probably more and then some for stuff like medicine, currency and all the other stuff that clutters our bags.

after 20 years there would be so much stuff to do for every job to keep us engaged forever. instead they decide to keep us busy with inventory micro managing and daily chores, it's farcical.

You have all these different jobs, and content like Odyssey where it locks you out of using jobs if you want a bonus from three fights in a row. They give you the option of accessing your bags and storage slips. Yet, when you get to 6 or 7 mastered jobs, most players are either seriously running out of space, or have to cut back considerably on what they can bring.

When it comes to versatility in this game, I see many sticking to 3-6 jobs just so they can do well. Then I see others who could in theory, bring any job they like, yet they only perform to a certain point on most of them because they need to cut back so hard.

All the Rare/EX equipment, on top of job specific reforged, multiple capes, and the collection of Ultimate Weapons you cannot store, make being flexible on many jobs a chore. I call it the inventory management mini-game. I spend way too much time messing with my bags, instead of doing something fun.

Do players go overboard with very situational pieces? Yes, I think they do. Even more so those who use gearswap. But for most people, they only bring what they feel they need. I'm one of those, I've become less inclined over the years to bring gear I'm only going to use in the rarest of situations.

The game is so versatile that some people want to be prepared, so I can't blame them. With that in mind, SE should accommodate for the player base, but I also understand that RMT groups could abuse a severe increase in inventory space. Any increase in space needs to be done without giving them the means to exploit it.

Speaking generally...
Those players aren't using the tools available and are full of excuses every time.

Use Safe, Safe2, Locker, and up to the four Wardrobes for gear you can't throw on the Porter. This way you can access all of it even via Nomad Moogles.

Storage is for pop/rmea/jse items that accumulate but you won't use often at all or a few sentimental items.

Satchel should be for slips, food, meds, seals (all fit in Satchel just fine), Sack and Case for other stackables to collect.

Wardrobes get prioritized for gear multiple jobs can use. Porter your JSE, Ambu, etc. Really, it saves hundreds of slots.

Don't "muh craft" on your main character that you want to play a ton of jobs on.

Don't hoard dumb ***.

I play plenty of jobs. I have loads of gear for all of them. I have the most minute of situational swaps for them. There's plenty of space. The difference is I plan and you don't. You just make excuses.

If you're already using Windower and Gearswap, there's really no excuse not to setup Organizer and Porter Packer correctly to have a sensible system like this in place. If you're using Ashita and Ashitacst/Luacast, Packer is available to work like Organizer. None of these are necessary, they're just available and save a ton of time.

Yes, SE should have improved their inventory systems long ago. No argument there. You're still making dumb decisions that make it harder on yourself.

EDIT: Run this Lua on Windower to see all of the items you can throw on the Porter Moogle that are clogging your inventory.

I have to agree, inventory space is all about planning accordingly. I logged into a friends account and was looking around his inventory and discovered all sorts of useless stuff. 90% of it was nostalgia gear from 75 days... Adaberk, a HQ and NQ dalmy, full set of god gear and so so much more stuff that is nothing more than junk at this point. /trash

I also went thru my gear recently and realized that I do NOT need 4 pairs of val mitts. Sure, its cool that one has QA+3, in reality, I don't use them in any swap set and they are not overly worth me trying to gear around at this point.


On another note, I do find it rather amusing everyone is complaining about paying more money. This game has cost 12.95 for 1 character since release. This game is almost 20 years old and inflation is a thing. The cost to maintain the servers goes up just due to everything costing more from hardware to personnel. I'm not sure about you, but this is one of the games that I do enjoy playing on a regular/continual basis to the point that I have not unsubscribed multiple characters in several years even when taking multi-month long breaks just to help keep the game going. Sure, its not a make/break if I alone was to unsubscribe but every penny adds up.

So in short, I'm 100% ok with paying an extra measly $2 a month for something I enjoy to help keep it around. If they do give us an additional feature in the form of more storage space, I certainly appreciate it more that way, rather than them just straight up increasing the monthly subscription cost.

I'm with you man. I spend more than this subscription to have food delivered to my house because I'm lazy at least one time a month.

This. The average player base for this game has to be in there 30s or potentially even older. If you’ve got time for this game then you’ve got $2/month.

SE caused it by making us need to keep all those gear pieces. Even if some of them are situational, it's nice to know we have them in the event we need them. That one pair of pants adds a little more macc? While it may give you more than necessary for common content, could help ensure something lands on higher tier content.

And of course they're going to fill their inventories up. That's what space is for... for putting things in it. There are people who play several jobs and have to pick/choose what to carry or use mules/moogles. One could respond with "Don't play so many jobs" but that's how the game is designed, for someone to play as many as they want.

While odyssey gear is a step in the right direction, it's not a complete solution. They would have to design the gear to make other options obsolete and while it may do that for many pieces, it doesn't for all. Not to mention, it requires augmentation in order to tip the scales in some cases and from the posts I've seen, the higher tier fights are not feasible for everyone. I have to make sure to use the word "feasible" because you have those people who believe in their minds that they're the cream of the crop when in reality, they're credit card warriors who like to come at responses like that with "lol dat content is ez".


As others have stated, not the point. The point being that continuously adding more and more things for us to have to pay for in order to function properly is not only nickel and diming us but making the 20 year old game more expensive than the newer ones.

They have a chance to do better than that. WoW is nearly as old and it has never had a need for this. You have a lot of bank slots and can use bags in them. They make bigger and bigger bags you can craft or buy on the AH. FFXIV has additional retainers you can purchase but I don't even know anyone who does that. You would think some big time crafters but I know some and they'll laugh and tell you "if you need that, you're doing it wrong".

That's the entire point; we don't need all those gear pieces. It's player mentality that makes us think we do, not the actual game mechanics.

To someone not min/maxing sure. I filled up 4 slots in my wardrobe in the past month with gear pieces that nearly doubled my WS damage on one of my jobs. Yes, I need those. And you have 3 jobs. It's easy to say when you don't have several you play.

I did the same and found like 6 items I could move to Safe. Still have like 40 item in Storage that I would rather keep in Wardrobes, so changing to SMN would be much easier.
With the upcoming Wardrobes I will finally be able to put almost everything I need in gearswap access space and I will only need to swap capes, neck and JSE when I switch job. With 4 Wardrobes it's not possible at all.