Dev Tracker - Discussion

Your choice to do so, knowing you would receive no reward.

Omen was completely "new". Originally, each run was different and mysterious due to the random mid-boss. We had to learn how to defeat those and the caturae--which represented multiple paths to explore. So much more gear was introduced, and much of that new gear was actually worth chasing.
The fun of nostalgia wears off after a run or two, at most. I still go when there are enough friends on interested, of course. But I go for the friends, not the content.


Merriam-Webster:
buggy
adjective
Definition of buggy for English Language Learners
: having many insects
of a computer program, system, etc. : having many problems or errors that prevent proper operation : having many bugs

I think that qualifies as buggy.
Boost is the same, in that in prevents proper operation of engage.

I dunno, I see different pros and cons in both events, but overall despite the flaws I think Omen was a much better planned out event in terms of what it gave to players on several different levels.

I don't dislike Dynamis Divergence btw, granted I'm still a bit disappointed how they clearly pushed on the brake when it came to updating the majority of those items (they kinda pushed the accelerator instead when they did the reforged AFs...)

Of course it's buggy; the point in contention was whether it was intentionally buggy, which there is absolutely zero evidence for. Even if the programmers knew that there were notable unfixed bugs before it went live (not proven), them proceeding anyway doesn't mean they are intentional.

Effort > reward ratio, omen is miles away from failnamis D so far, that's why people like it more imo.

Well it was released buggy. Users (NA and JP) notified the developer of the issues upon release. It is still buggy.
I'm not sure where on the scale your defense of SE falls between ignorant, illiterate, incompetent or belligerent...

Let's not forget the phrase:

Probably mostly a combination of the programmer division being undermanned, and bad priority on the part of the higher ups who could fix that problem.

New Dynamis actually has better effort > reward ratio, it's just random as *** and not very rewarding for mercs. In Omen you had to farm cards as that job, one lower NM run would net you 3~4 cards and you needed a ***ton of cards for each piece. To get the feet, which are the cheapest, required 36 cards, the body required 60. That is 10~11 runs for the feet and 18~19 runs for the body. But here is the kicker, you have to do this runs on the job you want it on which isn't necessarily the job people need you on. You can't purchase the cards outside of the event meaning your restricted to the tag timer.

Dynamis drops 500~600 currency per run along with random shards, we've had guys upgrade from +1 to +3 within two runs just because that's how the shard drops worked. I tracked our currency and shard drops and there is easily enough to upgrade several AF items per run, just not necessarily the items we want. Also you can trade with other players for their currency to expedite the upgrade process. I had the WAR +2 head after a single Windy run for example and have enough medals on hand to upgrade to the +3 if I wanted it now.

Overall Dyna is a far more relaxed and fair distribution system, people only need the clear once and then can go back to being the BRD, GEO, WHM or other required job. In Omen we had to start using alts to do the BRD / GEO / WHM stuff because those support crew needed cards on other jobs. That is not a very fair system to the general population who doesn't have access to well geared support mules.

The only thing that hurts new Dynamis is how random the drops are, the player is 100% at the mercy of SE's RNG and that can result in some runs sucking for AF while others being epic. We just had a Windy run that was epic beyond measure, we've also had Sandy runs that were just absolute ***for JSE drops, like no *** body wanted the MNK, PUP and SCH drops we kept getting. I really wish SE would give 100% JSE drop slots to the NM's, not like you can kill more then 1 of them per wave.

Your analysis is assuming that you have all of the (non-body) Omen drops you already want, and that cards are the only thing you're doing Omen for. For most players, that doesn't happen for quite a while, so they're getting full gear in addition to the cards.

I really just have one question about all of this......has that 2nd Time Extension ever been found?

I'm asking for a friend.

You probably won't see this because I think you have me blocked, but don't forget that Omen can be solo'd for cards.

Omen canteens recharge faster and multiple can be held so soloing here and there doesn't completely block someone out from participating in an unexpected boss run or two or three.

New Dynamis can't be solo'd efficiently. And the details of its gated system ensure a player can't leisurely progress without missing out or excluding others that may not be immediately available.
Sure, you can buy your way through it. But that is just another cop-out feature of this weak content.

New Dynamis is not a superior system, not even from an effort/reward standpoint.

The key difference with Vanilla Omen and DynaDont is that Omen originally had 6 players. Cards were the focus, but you had to go through a Midboss and then the Boss. Both dropped at least 1-2 accessories, guaranteed, plus a mat. And they were all really good for every job, BIS most if not all of them. So you could walk away with a very nice Shiny and possibly a good chunk of gil for a quick 30 minutes, and you're only competing with 5 other people, assuming it was FL.

Then there's the fact that you could also get a Canteen from a free floor (or even gear, which was very common when the event first came out; it just gives gil mostly now). That doubles your ability to farm more quantities of cards. Cards are guaranteed to drop (in personal, so no competition) just from completing objectives. shards and voids are not guaranteed (they are on the rarer side. Just completed a full run and got 1 item within the last 5 min of the event. It's horrible).

And you also cannot forget that objectives are cumulative, so you can carry your objective counter to the next run. You can go once a day, or 3x+ in one day for the total of 90 minutes.

There were pros and cons of both, but don't make it seem like Dynamis drops were more even and fair. That's simply not the case when you consider all of the above

edit: beaten by Geriond

By all objective measures they are more fair. Subjectively Omen feels more rewarding because it's hitting your dopamine dispenser more consistently. It's the same as the erroneous belief that accuracy is more important to DRK's because they swing slower.

A person who wants to upgrade their DRG gear would have to come as DRG to Omen consistently for months before they finished. Someone who wants to upgrade DRG relic has to come to a Dyna farming event once as DRG and then go COR/WHM/RUN/PLD/BRD/GEO/SMN/ect.. from that point on. That alone makes it more fair, without getting into purchasable currency.

The one group of people this event doesn't really work for is the merc crowd who use's bots to do everything. It's too available for the drops to be high value for the time they would have to dedicate their bots to. They would be losing gil trying to do this, and thus they complain about it not being efficient enough.

Looking back, I composed that sentence very poorly. I meant that SE's defense falls somewhere on a scale between ignorant and belligerent. I did not mean to say or imply you are any of these things. If taken that way, I apologize.


To Saevel, I don't bot. Yet I can still recognize Dynamis is flawed to the point it could not exist and we'd not miss it. You do so well, but then you group the whole world into two categories, neither of which may represent reality well... Judge the content and the ideas shared, not the imagined intentions of the monsters under your bed.

As far as getting rewards on jobs other than the one being used, what's better:

1/10 conversion rate?
Or
RNG + gil?

I thought one of Omen's stronger points was that it gave players an indisputable excuse to use a favored job, even if less efficient. I mean, Omen is so easy even a Cavemnk can do it.

For newer groups if there are any left still its a "problem" if they have to go jobs they dont want cards on but at this point of omen's stage, i think people are just farming it for gear or mercing.

Omen can take a good while if you farming the cards but the gear has actual use for most jobs, there's only a few af2+3 worth getting and the actual gear that drops off NMs is niche at best, cant really compare it to omen gear.

So your trying to compare a mature Omen group's needs with a brand new Dyna groups needs. That's baised as ***.


This can be said verbatim for Dyna gear.

Relic +3 is no different then AF +3, 2/5 of the gear is "good" the rest is either super situational or outright useless. Empyrean gear will be the same, so get ready to repeat this sound track when that gets released.

The only difference is we got to .dat mine the entire AF+3 gear all at once and drool over those 2/5 good pieces immediately. They have only released 3/5 of the Dyna gear so far so there are 2/5 of the pieces that you can't droll over.

It's purely confirmation bias, you already judged the event based on Dynamis Sandy and now are just looking for evidence that confirms your conclusion and ignoring evidence that refutes it.


EX:
ZOMG SE IS SUCKING COR'S ***
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lanun_Bottes_%2B3
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Agoge_Calligae_%2B3


ZOMG WTF SE *** HATES COR
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lanun_Tricorne_%2B3
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Agoge_Mask_%2B3

In reality SE already has all sets planned but isn't putting them in the .dats because they don't want us mining them ahead of time. Like usual each job got two got pieces, with the rest being situational or trash. This is a pattern SE has followed since abyssea and should be absolutely no surprise to anyone. This pattern is also why I've been saving my medals up, I knew that as each slot was released there would be gear I wanted and would upgrade the first unlock I got. I got the +2 head within an hour of exiting dyna-Windy on my first run. "Progress" from Bastok and Sandy was carried over via currency. I could get the +3 right now but have chosen to instead get at least one shard and one voidhead to reduce the cost and save my remaining medals for future gear.

Again virtually all the protest boils down to
I WANT MY GEAR RIGHT NOW!
and
I WANT TO MAKE A BAZILLION GIL OFF IT!

Don't extrapolate one portion to make your point, while leaving out the others. You could very well do 10 Dynamis runs and never see one piece of your shard. Perhaps you get lucky and you get all of your shards in one run. It's a crapshoot. In Omen, you can run those same amount of runs (in a significantly shorter period of time) and complete a piece of gear, guaranteed. You can solo Omen, and guarantee yourself cards to convert to gear. The same can't be said in Dynamis.

I could argue that this scenario alone would make Omen more favorable reward-wise, but that'd be no more reasonable than what you did. You can't take one part of the event and just say it's now "more fair" just because you say so. Look at the full picture and compare the two. Omen literally offers more, with more guarantees, for a larger crowd, for less effort, time, and skill. Dynamis is what it has always been: luck, random, and time sink.

Again the DRK accuracy fallacy


On average it's objectively better. You only need 5 shards and 3 void-items, which it's possible to get all in a single run. We actually had a guy get 2 THF shards and 2 THF void items in a single run before, two runs later he got the remaining items and now can do +3 on this THF. Same with our DRK lotter.

I even said as much previously,



Your entire argument is a strawman based on emotions, specifically the lack of a constant dopamine hit that SE has had you addicted to. Instead of winning small amounts consistently over months, you win large amounts inconsistently over the same period of time.

I had WAR +2 head the very first day I ran Windy. I have already upgraded several pieces of RDM gear along with collecting pieces for WAR (feet / hands are not priority for me). I'm on track to finish these jobs to +3 within the next few months, body depending on how SE does it. This is about the same speed as me upgrading my Omen gear but without us having to rely on using alts to enable farming of gear.

Lol you can twist my words all you can but the thing is i didnt mention dynamis on my first sentence, i run an omen group now and the only veteran is me, in the period of 3-4 months we farmed all cards and most gear so saying the cards is a cockblocking issue is to lie and as you mentioned already, dynamis-D with old dynamis drops and NMs that require a zerg with 30 buffs or nukers for fail drops isnt something "hot".

You post 2 very good dynamis pieces, now post 15 good head/hands/legs af2+3 pieces like we have for the af+3, its embarrassing what they doing for jobs like BLU with this AF2, only a miracle can save this complete ser for blu (and many others) for being complete garbage.

And about your last comment, most people want to see some progress and not waste 90 minutes just watching SCH MNK shards drop, if they make it 100% drop 1 shard of the current NM job, that would still require time but not the "uncertain" of when it will drop, about the gilmaking all i can say there's no gil to be done (in ragna) anymore with mercs, all the gilbuyers moved to your server with the "number 1" player lulz.

So you started off with "Dynamis is more fair than Omen". Then switched to "on average it's objectively better". Then you threw in a totally theoretical scenario of receiving all of your shards and voids in one run, and you want that to be taken seriously? You don't even believe it yourself.

I can argue that in the same amount of time it takes to clear one dynamis run, I could "theoretically" get 3 Omen bodies from 3 different runs. Plus a every other accessory cuz i got 2 3x treasure portent rooms per run, which allowed me to nab 3 pieces of random gear (not including the midboss kills drops) and max out my rewards, AND extra canteens from 1/3 of the chests, to repeat the process indefinitely. In theory, I can accumulate all of the omen drops in the same amount of time it would take me to get something in one Dynamis run. Random ***is random ***, it applies for both scenarios. Dude stop man, you're literally grasping for straws and taking the most favorable (albeit extreme) scenario and applying it to Dynamis, but failing to apply it to Omen. You're deliberately being disingenuous, and nobody is stupid enough to fall for that.

Huh... now your just resorting to personal attacks and projection.

How is that a personal attack? Pointing out that you applied the most extreme scenario of receiving every Dynamis drop in 1 run, but conveniently ignored that scenario in Omen. the argument was about which one offered more and was overall more fair. You downgraded your argument from "dynamis is more fair" to "on average it's better".

No attacks were made, I'm having a dialogue. But you can't apply an unrealistic theoretical scenario in favor of one event and then not apply that same benefit to another event, for the sake of elevating one above the other.

It all evens out because the next day we get COR, THF, RDM and others that we actually want.


That's been my point this entire time, on average it's more fair and actually better reward then Omen. Individual runs have a much greater variance in their rewards which when combined with the 3 day lockout period creates very large differences in the highs and lows.


2/5 of the gear will be "good", the rest super situational or useless. I've said this several times now, you just refuse to read it. There are 110 total relic pieces, so only 44 will be "good" gear and out of that 44 40% hasn't been released so only 15~18 pieces would be "good" right now, which works out about right. I posted those pieces to show the dramatic differences between "good" and "***" people are getting twisted in. Before Windy people swore Dyna was "***" for WAR, then suddenly a brokenly powerful WAR item appeared. There are two more slots left, what do you think the chances are for other jobs to get a brokenly powerful item? But no we're all supposed to agree it's "***" gear because of what's available right this very moment without any considering to SE's usual JSE gear release strategy.

This is a pattern SE has followed since Abyssea, why would anyone expect this to be any different. As it stands each DD job will get a WSD +10% that doesn't conflict with it's Artifact piece. Then a handful of +JA boosting gear and possible some MAB / MACC / skill mage gear.

But hey you want your pony and it better be pink and delivered by 5PM or your gonna hold your breath.

Umm go reread your stuff in a few hours.

Classic Saevel move. Claim ad hominem attacks are made when convenient to sidestep the counterargument presented.

i mean, while we're talking ad hominem

it's pretty obvious that dynamis reward structure is ***, there's a reason nobody is standing up for it

That is personal attacks and projection. I actually didn't receive any shards in one run, I used my medals that I had saved from earlier runs to immediately upgrade to +2. You also rewrote my argument in your head and attacked that fictional argument.



More projection and personal attacks. Your own arguments ran out of room earlier, they were based on how you ~felt~ about the event and not on actual effort:reward. This is evidenced in your statements including the words "Dynadont" and other pejoratives.

Once someone reduces their position to using emotions as their reasoning source, it's no longer productive to reason with them.



Occasionally, if I'm bored, I'll continue screwing with someone's emotions just to watch them dig themselves into huge pits filled with vehement insults and anger.

Except this is incorrect. Only a handful of people don't like it, most of them are here on this site. You pretty much stated that you don't like it because you can't use your bot army to farm gil from it. That it was more efficient for you to use that same bot army to farm gil elsewhere and then purchase the medals for the gear.

Lots of people enjoy doing it, I happen to lead an entire group who enjoys running through a zone twice a week. We also know of many other groups that enjoy running through the zones. The only people I know bitching about it in-game are doing so because they want to run it more often, the exact opposite of not liking to do it. Of course those are also the same people who spend a few hours playing the game every single day, not exactly the majority of the population.