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By Afania 2018-02-02 13:45:58
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm just making argument.

Its all luck based, DM augments and Kin body drop. I'm not throwing out a blanket price of 200M and saying "You'll get those augments for that price" (very unlikely), I'm just using it as a an argument for Valor DM augment body vs Kin Body. You roll the Random Number Generator in both instances. How much would you pay for a Dagon Breastplate? How many runs has everyone collectively done of Kin Omen on your server? Thousands? How many Dagon breastplates have you ever seriously seen another person wear or know of someone who has it, let alone that same breastplate drop in Omen? Less than 10? 5? It's just as rare as seeing an augment from DM.

It's luck again.....and don't underestimate hardcore players ability and determination to farm gears, lol. I know at least 2 person in my connection that has Kin body, maybe more since I don't check everyone's gear. I also know at least 3 person in my connection that has Gin body. I even know someone with multiple Omen bodies on the same char.

Some people do have the ability to multi box Omen bosses. In that case just kill them every day and maybe after 100 kills you'd see one. If you multi box you have zero competitor for the lot.

I think omen body may be easier than DM for those who can clear boss by themselves or have very small static. If you can't then DM may be easier.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-02 14:12:04
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at least farming omen bodies you walk away with cards to upgrade gear versus DM where you're just tossing gil down the drain.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 14:12:04
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I'm with you, but what you are suggesting is a very particular scenario where the player utilizes multiple accounts (money) to farm an event (which takes times) to get a drop. If you can solo an Omen run in 30 minutes and see a drop after 100~ runs, that's 50 hours of farming to get that one item. How much gil can you amass on multiple characters farming for 50 hours straight?

Its luck and then its more luck. You can make an argument for either scenario, Omen being the case where its once a day. If a player has that much determination to farm 100 runs off of multiple characters, that same determination can be put towards farming dark matters or a billion gil for the same luck based dice roll.

Really you just need to do a spreadsheet and see what are the minimum number of augments you'd need to get on DM to surpass a Dagon Breastplate and then get to rolling. I'm not saying that method is better or worse, but you can make the case that both are equally as frustrating and totally luck based, so you can take your pick.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 14:13:41
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
at least farming omen bodies you walk away with cards to upgrade gear versus DM where you're just tossing gil down the drain.

You can spend the same amount of time farming DMs that you do farming Kins, and you'll walk away with money as well. Time is money. Farming Kin is money. You throw money down the drain in both scenarios.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-02 14:23:47
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
at least farming omen bodies you walk away with cards to upgrade gear versus DM where you're just tossing gil down the drain.

You can spend the same amount of time farming DMs that you do farming Kins, and you'll walk away with money as well. Time is money. Farming Kin is money. You throw money down the drain in both scenarios.
That doesn't make them even remotely comparable. Your logic is no different than "farming crabs for a crab shell takes time, and farming Kin for body takes time, and time is money, so you're throwing money down the drain in both scenarios".

Farming for DM augments will literally take you orders of magnitude more time on average as it does to get a Kin body.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 14:28:29
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No it wouldn't. Perhaps it would. You just admitted last page you have a wonderful DM augment body that is on par with dagon. It's all luck in both cases. Never seen a body drop in over 200 runs and someone else has probably seen it in 20. Never got a sweet DM augment like others have but it's luck luck luck. Takes time and is luck in either case
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-02 14:39:33
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No, my wonderful Valorous is using Fern stones, not DM.

Also, you know that they are completely different levels of luck, right? There's a difference between the luck to get three heads in a row on a coin toss, and the luck to win the mega millions lottery on your first ticket.
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By fonewear 2018-02-02 14:57:17
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm with you, but what you are suggesting is a very particular scenario where the player utilizes multiple accounts (money) to farm an event (which takes times) to get a drop. If you can solo an Omen run in 30 minutes and see a drop after 100~ runs, that's 50 hours of farming to get that one item. How much gil can you amass on multiple characters farming for 50 hours straight?

Its luck and then its more luck. You can make an argument for either scenario, Omen being the case where its once a day. If a player has that much determination to farm 100 runs off of multiple characters, that same determination can be put towards farming dark matters or a billion gil for the same luck based dice roll.

Really you just need to do a spreadsheet and see what are the minimum number of augments you'd need to get on DM to surpass a Dagon Breastplate and then get to rolling. I'm not saying that method is better or worse, but you can make the case that both are equally as frustrating and totally luck based, so you can take your pick.

Playing a game should not involve me keeping a spreadsheet to figure ***out. This is a game meant to be fun. If I want to punch in random numbers into an Excel spreadsheet I'd be an accountant.

Random augments is a pointless time sink that is a result of poor game design. Throwing tons and tons of stones on a piece of armor to maybe get something perfect. You could in theory augment your armor forever. Because there will always be a chance that something will be better.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 14:57:21
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I'm aware, but that analogy is not fitting for this scenario. I'm not suggesting hitting the jackpot with DM augments, only that you can put forward the same effort towards getting a comparable body from DM augments by stockpiling and rolling those numbers, as you could farming Kins. If you have the ability to multibox Kins for your body, it will take time, but you'll eventually get it. That might take 6 days or 6 months. The same effort toward hitting some useful comparable augments on Valorous Body to put you close to Dagon Breastplate can be made, but its extremely risky from a financial perspective.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 14:58:17
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fonewear said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm with you, but what you are suggesting is a very particular scenario where the player utilizes multiple accounts (money) to farm an event (which takes times) to get a drop. If you can solo an Omen run in 30 minutes and see a drop after 100~ runs, that's 50 hours of farming to get that one item. How much gil can you amass on multiple characters farming for 50 hours straight?

Its luck and then its more luck. You can make an argument for either scenario, Omen being the case where its once a day. If a player has that much determination to farm 100 runs off of multiple characters, that same determination can be put towards farming dark matters or a billion gil for the same luck based dice roll.

Really you just need to do a spreadsheet and see what are the minimum number of augments you'd need to get on DM to surpass a Dagon Breastplate and then get to rolling. I'm not saying that method is better or worse, but you can make the case that both are equally as frustrating and totally luck based, so you can take your pick.

Playing a game should not involve me keeping a spreadsheet to figure ***out. This is a game meant to be fun. If I want to punch in random numbers into an Excel spreadsheet I'd be an accountant.

No argument there, I'm just saying for getting something close or better, you probably don't need to go crazy farming Kins for the body. That's not fun either.
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By fonewear 2018-02-02 15:02:03
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The Omen body drop rate is a joke. I don't even care about getting the drop anymore. It isn't worth endless Omen runs but maybe to other people it is.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-02 15:05:07
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fonewear said: »
The Omen body drop rate is a joke. I don't even care about getting the drop anymore. It isn't worth endless Omen runs but maybe to other people it is.


SE has trapped me in the omen body quest no doubt. hate to admit it, but I'll keep truckin, beatin my head against those fights until the end of time.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 15:06:29
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Good luck. I'm done with that ***, and Ou. I'll do them occasionally as I have time but I'm not doing the Kin once nightly. Because by the time I finally get the drop, relic +3 bodies will outperform it for the jobs I care about and I'm going to be pissed. FOH with that.
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-02 15:09:35
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
No it wouldn't. Perhaps it would. You just admitted last page you have a wonderful DM augment body that is on par with dagon. It's all luck in both cases. Never seen a body drop in over 200 runs and someone else has probably seen it in 20. Never got a sweet DM augment like others have but it's luck luck luck. Takes time and is luck in either case
*cough* 12 *cough* come at me jellies
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By fonewear 2018-02-02 15:09:45
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They should add some decent armor/weapons to the AH. I can't tell you the last time I wanted armor/weapons from the AH.
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By fonewear 2018-02-02 15:10:49
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Hell with adding new armor and the such we got more Dynamis yay. Dynamis yay.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 15:13:46
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clearlyamule said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
No it wouldn't. Perhaps it would. You just admitted last page you have a wonderful DM augment body that is on par with dagon. It's all luck in both cases. Never seen a body drop in over 200 runs and someone else has probably seen it in 20. Never got a sweet DM augment like others have but it's luck luck luck. Takes time and is luck in either case
*cough* 12 *cough* come at me jellies

EAD!

It would be nice if we could use the test server to get some hard numbers on Dark Matter. Oseem fully stocked Techniques, so we could run a script and see what the probability of landing a certain augment would be. Because currently it's really really really really really too broad of stats to even get a good gauge of whether its worth it. One day you could get TH, Refresh, WSD, Mag burst, and QA/TA/DA augments, the next you get Pet store tp, conserve mp, and enmity-10. There's no consistency and it's too broad sometimes. I hate that about DM augments.
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By Caerda 2018-02-02 15:40:31
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Over a year straight of Omen and I have never seen a body drop. Treasure hunter only seems to get you double scales on the regular bosses and Ou drops regal neck 90% of the time.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-02 15:47:59
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Doing omen since release pretty regularly- I'd estimate since inception I've probably used about 90% of available canteens. I've seen 1 shamash, 1 dagon, 1 nisrosch (lost lot), and 1 udug jacket. The udug went to someone's mule.

But basically, I estimate it at around a 1% drop based on that. I've seen 4 bodies, and at the current refresh rate of canteens minus Ou runs, its a safe bet I've done 400 omen runs.

The thing I do like about it is that the bodies aren't buyable. You might get lucky and see on your first run, but hell that's how DRing worked back in the day. More likely than not, you're just gonna grind it. And there's not much left in the game that isn't buyable.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-02 17:14:35
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I'm totally cool with it not being buyable and I've never mentioned once that there should be a process to buy it. I just know that if I did 400 omens and finally saw my dagon drop and it went to someone else, I'd probably commit a murder irl over it and my heart cannot take that kind of trauma.
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By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2018-02-02 18:06:05
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Doing omen since release pretty regularly- I'd estimate since inception I've probably used about 90% of available canteens. I've seen 1 shamash, 1 dagon, 1 nisrosch (lost lot), and 1 udug jacket. The udug went to someone's mule.

But basically, I estimate it at around a 1% drop based on that. I've seen 4 bodies, and at the current refresh rate of canteens minus Ou runs, its a safe bet I've done 400 omen runs.

The thing I do like about it is that the bodies aren't buyable. You might get lucky and see on your first run, but hell that's how DRing worked back in the day. More likely than not, you're just gonna grind it. And there's not much left in the game that isn't buyable.

They'll make drop rates higher or the bonus floors more common once they decide to outdate the content.

As it stands though, with no major expansions or new content announced, I think they much rather people grind them.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-02 18:20:57
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Doing omen since release pretty regularly- I'd estimate since inception I've probably used about 90% of available canteens. I've seen 1 shamash, 1 dagon, 1 nisrosch (lost lot), and 1 udug jacket. The udug went to someone's mule.

But basically, I estimate it at around a 1% drop based on that. I've seen 4 bodies, and at the current refresh rate of canteens minus Ou runs, its a safe bet I've done 400 omen runs.

The thing I do like about it is that the bodies aren't buyable. You might get lucky and see on your first run, but hell that's how DRing worked back in the day. More likely than not, you're just gonna grind it. And there's not much left in the game that isn't buyable.
dibs on next jacket, though
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-02 20:20:12
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Doing omen since release pretty regularly- I'd estimate since inception I've probably used about 90% of available canteens. I've seen 1 shamash, 1 dagon, 1 nisrosch (lost lot), and 1 udug jacket. The udug went to someone's mule.

But basically, I estimate it at around a 1% drop based on that. I've seen 4 bodies, and at the current refresh rate of canteens minus Ou runs, its a safe bet I've done 400 omen runs.

The thing I do like about it is that the bodies aren't buyable. You might get lucky and see on your first run, but hell that's how DRing worked back in the day. More likely than not, you're just gonna grind it. And there's not much left in the game that isn't buyable.
dibs on next jacket, though

eegads!
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2018-02-08 06:25:57
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2018-02-08 06:30:26
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AR petasos + 3 [head] allergy prevention 115 HP+56 MP+52 STR +24 DEX + 24 VIT + 24 AGI + 24 INT + 34 MND + 29 CHR +29 Hit +37 Magic + 43 鄺攵 +55 Avoidance + 56 Evasion +95 Magical +7 Spirit Magical Skill + 21 Heist 6% Hostile-7 Ancient Magical Damage Up Lv 99 ~ Black <ItemLevel: 119>

AR bay +3 [head] all-purpose prevention 120 HP +56 STR + 31 DEX +29 VIT + 22 AGI + 37 INT + 25 MND + 31 CHR + 26 flight +37 +62 magic + 37 evasion + 64 evil avoidance +73 Magical + 4 Hast + 8% Enemy 0 - 8 Rapid Shot + 14 Recycle + 38 Recycling Exciting Up Lv 99 ~ Hunt <Item Level 119>

Google translations. Not sure why the one on blm isn't translating.

I'll do a better job when I get to work if no-one beats me to it.
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By Afania 2018-02-08 07:18:32
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BLM head:
Def+115 HP+56 MP+52 STR+24 DEX+24 VIT+24 AGI+24 INT+34 MND+29 CHR+29

Acc+37/Macc+43/MAB+55/Evasion+56/meva+ 95/mdef bonus+7

Elemental magic skill+21/haste+6% enmity-7/Increases Ancient magic II damage

RNG head:
Def+120 HP+56 STR+31 DEX+29 VIT+22 AGI+37 INT+25 MND+31 CHR+26

racc+37/rattk+62/macc+37/evasion+64/meva+73/mdef bonus+4/ Haste+8%/Enmity-8/Rapid Shot+14/Recycle+38/ "Enhances 'Recycle' effect"

Edited to match English translation.
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By Asura.Chiaia 2018-02-08 08:17:15
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Wonder if cor head will stay like +50 but like 5 or 10% chance to bump it to like 110% of a job bonus at +3 since they been messing with stuff lately or better yet phantom roll +1 go (that actually stacks)
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By fonewear 2018-02-08 08:37:12
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Doing omen since release pretty regularly- I'd estimate since inception I've probably used about 90% of available canteens. I've seen 1 shamash, 1 dagon, 1 nisrosch (lost lot), and 1 udug jacket. The udug went to someone's mule.

But basically, I estimate it at around a 1% drop based on that. I've seen 4 bodies, and at the current refresh rate of canteens minus Ou runs, its a safe bet I've done 400 omen runs.

The thing I do like about it is that the bodies aren't buyable. You might get lucky and see on your first run, but hell that's how DRing worked back in the day. More likely than not, you're just gonna grind it. And there's not much left in the game that isn't buyable.

So basically you are wasting your time.

When I heard version update included a new hat I thought of this:

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Afania 2018-02-08 08:42:58
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Wonder if cor head will stay like +50 but like 5 or 10% chance to bump it to like 110% of a job bonus at +3 since they been messing with stuff lately or better yet phantom roll +1 go (that actually stacks)


I have bad feeling about this.....COR already won the relic +3 jackpot twice....
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By fonewear 2018-02-08 08:44:26
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Afania said: »
Asura.Chiaia said: »
Wonder if cor head will stay like +50 but like 5 or 10% chance to bump it to like 110% of a job bonus at +3 since they been messing with stuff lately or better yet phantom roll +1 go (that actually stacks)


I have bad feeling about this.....COR already won the relic +3 jackpot twice....

You are missing the point it's a new hat !
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