Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

This is why people laugh at the forums.

It's true flat isn't an accurate description, it's percentage based (Was wrong about that so I went to look it up) but the point is, it's easier to get use out of store TP when your overall attack rounds are faster, simply due to it taking far more store TP to go from a 4 hit build to a 3 hit build than it does to go from a 12 hit build to an 11 hit build.

Like most things, there's a diminishing return, and in this case everyone who has tested it has seen better numbers from Ternion +1 as an offhand than other options. I have a colada that has STR+11 ACC/ATTACK 13 WSD 3% on it, and it gets beaten pretty easily by Ternion in all the testing I've done, with the main drawback being it's [Ternion's] accuracy.

Much of that can be attributed to the fact that dual wielders typically prioritize store TP less in their TP sets than someone using a 2 handed weapon would (for a variety of reasons, gear availability, where they currently sit in tp/hit, etc) meaning the increase in percentage from SAM roll affects someone with less store TP more than it would someone who's already stacked with loads of it.

So sure, I was wrong about how I got there, but the end result is still the same.

It's the other way arround, Store TP is a bit easier to work with when your using 400+ Delay weapons because of the increased TP return from WS. Ultimately it's still a percentage increase in TP gain, meaning +7 Store TP is exactly 7% increase regardless of the delay of your weapons.


Only you could possibly think this...

Utilizing Store TP trait/gear/rolls is SO MUCH EASIER on 2h and ranged weapons than 1h- if you haven't personally experienced this, pick up a gun and try it out. Why do heavy DDs worry about it? The time between swings/shots is so much, and the TP gain per hit/WS is astronomically larger than a 1hander. I can't believe I'm actually typing this.

---Or put another way---
When your swings come every .4seconds, subtracting one swing per cycle of building 1000TP isn't increasing your WS frequency over a 10 minute fight that much. But if you're swinging/shooting every 1.2 seconds, cutting an attack round out results in 3 times the benefit that our 1 hander gets in WS frequency.

---Or even another way---
Gear options for a 1hander are clearly skewed in this game towards multiattack, whereas gear options for 2handers and ranged attacks lean toward Store TP. Bucking the trend and trying to fight against what "fits" only leads to poor results. Hell, even WAR, the job defined often by its double attack rate, still gears often for an "xHit build". We don't see SAMs tossing their aeonics and masamunes for ilvl Soboros. RNGs gear to get to a WS in as few shots as possible, unless you're riding empy/mythic AM3, and in those cases, TP gain is ignored as you're only aiming for white damage.

---And one more final thing---
A RDM/NIN dual wielding swords both with 224 delay, with 48 Store TP(pretty standard high end RDM build- store TP cape, telos/sherida/anu, chirich/rajas as your "standard" TP slots) needs 14 hits to reach 1000TP. you have to add 30 Store TP just to drop it to a 12 hit build. Thats a ridiculous amount, almost impossible for a RDM to hit in just gear....even adding 20 Store TP and SAM roll is difficult in that setup.

By comparison, a RNG/WAR using a 600 delay gun(ammo delay doesn't factor into math when it comes to delay/TP gain for ranged attacks) with 66 store TP(again, very standard endgame gear) has a 5 hit build. By adding just 10 Store TP, it drops to a 4 hit build. You can't even compare the benefits that 1/3 the value of Store TP gives to our RNG in our example when compared to our RDM in this example.

Well firstly don't get lost in the rabbit hole of taking x-hit's as absolutes. The important thing is TP per second, not number of hits to 1000.

A Sequence is a 240 delay weapon with 75.67 TP per swing. That gives a 0.3152 TP per delay value or a 18.91 TP per second. A Lionheart is a 480 Delay weapon with a 134.33 TP per swing. You get 0.2798 TP per delay with a value of 16.79 TP per second. Anguta is 528 delay with a TP per swing of 146.07, 0.2766 TP per delay, 16.59 TP per second.

Low delay weapons have an advantage in TP generation speed until you get to 150 delay where it mostly flatlines (DW swords reach this).

Store TP +40 is exactly 40% more TP per swing reguardless of delay. It's [TP per swing] * [Store TP] = [TP Gained].

A five hit with an Anguta is 528 * 5 = 2640 Delay or 44 seconds requiring 37 Store TP. Giving that same Store TP to Sequence we get 103.667 TP per swing or slightly faster then a 10-hit, 240 * 10 = 2400 delay or 40 seconds. The Sword is approximately 11% faster in TP generation then the Scythe.

So immediately lets squash the myth that "Store TP is better for 2H because their big delay" because that's a bastardization and misunderstanding of a much longer answer. Weaponskill TP return is where 2H (and ranged) pull far ahead of 1H weapons because WS's are always two seconds long regardless of delay. That 240 delay sequence would do a WS (using one hit just for demonstration) and get 75.67 TP return in a two second time giving you 37.835 TP per second. That Anguta would give you 146.07 TP return in that same two second period for 73.035 TP per second, nearly double that of 1H. Store TP just exaggerates the difference.

There are two other reasons for the different feeling. First is the difference between JA haste and Dual Wield. JA Haste abilities like Last Resort and Hasso (Haste Samba too) are actual haste values and don't reduce your weapon delay so the user maintains full TP return per swing. Dual Wield on the other hand reduces delay and thus forces a lower TP per swing. The highest haste value someone can receive without DW / MA or JA Haste is 699/1024 or 68.26%. The second reason is the sub jobs involved, 1H players tend to sub WAR or NIN for the Multi-Attack and Berserk while 2H tend to sub SAM for the JA haste and free 15 Store TP. That Store TP counts even on Weapon Skills and thus raises the TP return from that flat two second period.

There used to be a gear argument, that heavy armor tended to have Store TP while light armor had Crit Hit rate / Multi-Attack, but that's ended with items like SR Tights and augmented Herc Gear. My DD RUN can get ridiculous Store TP wearing similar stuff as my BLU.

Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Store TP matters, it should never be ignored just because someone's Dual Wielding. It's a bit harder to calculated because DW gear changes your delay but it's still worthwhile to gear around.

I appreciate the TP/second argument, as it is a much better comparison when dealing with different weapon types (the generic type of ranged/2handed/1handed).

And yes, certain heavy DDs can get crazy amounts of multiattack AND store TP, my argument regarding gear being directed in certain ways is that its simply "easier" to get one or the other. I know my RUN, which isn't OP, but is solid, gears for multiattack and gets the Store TP where it can, and works out quite well naturally(I would also point out that RUN is an oddity of the 2 handers, being a light armor job primarily- no Odyssean/Valorous for example). And yes, a piece like Teodor tights which are so great for any job that can wear them do prove your point that multiattack is more prevalent these days for heavy hitters. I would say this- while what I stated above isn't a hard and fast rule, it does point out trends.

Again, like the argument of TP/second better than TP/hit, as it accurately factors in more variables that actually matter in DPS. Basically, it sounds like I gave the 7th Grade Earth Science explanation of plate tectonics, and you're in 300 level Geophysics in terms of the depth of explanation.

This is all good information, and I'm better for having had this conversation, but it doesn't answer the question that was originally asked, which was whether or not Dark Matter augments for Weapon skill damage made Savage Blade preferred to CDC. This conversation got completely derailed.

It was asserted that CDC would be your go-to option, but that doesn't seem to bear out when it's possible (albeit expensive) to get 10% WSD per slot.

Just to agree with this, you can figure this out in a TP calculator and you would find that STP and TA/DA have similar returns whether you are DWing or Two handing.

I think with twohanders the focus on STP comes from the fact that they always wanted to get an X number of hits to 1000 TP build where in the end all that really matters is what build provides more TP / second. This applies more-so now that a lot of skills have good TP scaling.

Also to get us back on track:



I don't think your Go-to option should be based on DM augments.

But I do agree that Savage Blade has the potential to be stronger on Red mage even w/o DM augments.

Just with current gear limitations alone Savage is (much) stronger white damage. There's no way anyone could possibly argue against that. The issue here is whether CDC spamming Light is overall stronger than spamming Savage or SCing Savage and something weaker (KoR>Savage for example). Obviously if you get to 2000 or 3000 TP, Savage Blade's damage takes a huge jump, making it almost untouchable in terms of white damage. RDM gear favors STR and MND gear compared to DEX gear and Crit damage/rate is almost non-existent outside Taeon and DM augments.

Crit Rate is

5% Base
5% Merits
22.5% (CDC 1750 assuming Sequence and Moonshade)
5% Rancor item (should be ring)

37.5% Before we get into situational stuff

0~15% dDEX This is where Almace and Gain-DEX really helps out
10% Cape

62.5% Crit rate isn't out of the realm of expectation so about 3 out of the averaged five hits shout critical.

The trick with CDC isn't to do something dumb like stacking crit (unless a very large amount is in one piece), but to stack DEX and Multi-Attack. RDM isn't on the Herc or Adhemar gear and the Chironic kinda sucks *** but the Jhakari and Ayanmo +1 is pretty solid though Ayanmo not having attack hurts it. Despair is practically screaming STR WS but it's accuracy seems low, though for what you'd be using RDM on it's probably just fine. I get each of the WS's being "best" depending on the situation and environment assumptions.

That is why you don't proudly exclaim one WS is "the best duh", instead try to understand the different situations that enhance or diminish each WS. If that's too hard then this probably isn't the game to play, WoW or FFXIV much simpler.

And in what slots are you stacking dex/multiattack instead of crit? I have 4/5 crit/crit dmg taeon + theroid greaves beating everything in those slots.

Nobody said that.

Savage Blade build question to those who have really delved into it:

Looking at adding WSD to my current build, and was going to get some more Taeon pieces, in particularly head slot (I would like to see some math on a Taeon WSD built body vs. Jhakri+1/+2). Will a mere 3 WSD (plus of course the 20 acc/atk, and w/e 3rd leaf category stat works best) from the taeon head out-do Despair Helm path D? Or Jhakri+2 head?

Very impressed with current numbers, but of course want to push it more.

Taeon isnt good for it

so DM chironic or gtfo.....figured.

Jhakri +2 is strong

Oh that I assumed. My "DM chronic or gtfo" was in reference to assuming for wsd versus standard stats.

Hello ^^, just one question about Macc set.

What the best chironic legs augment ppl have ?

Atm i have a MND +13 MACC+28, dunno if i can try to get more with maga.

Thks in advance

mine are a pellucid stone augment-

MND+4,Macc+38,MAB+24,Conserve MP +2.

I know someone in my shell had over 40macc with over 10 MND...and they play brd.

Ones I have atm are MND15 Macc30 matt12 conMP3

I was actually mainly just looking for mnd15 for a kind of anal para/slow potency set.

Hands only mnd15 macc13 conmp5 (6mnd over kaykaus+1)
Head mnd15 macc25

For duration sets, would augmented Ghostfyre(assumed max +20) be better than Sucellos's(duration +20%)?

Yes it's better

Yup.
have fun. Its a hell that many of us have trudged through.

Finally got Helix duration +20 on SCH cape after a couple hundred trades, hopefully I'll fare better this time around. ._.

If I have an Enfeeble Set with a combined total of 362 macc+enfskill (but with less total macc than the Max Macc Set) and a Max Macc Set with a combined total of 366 macc+enfskill (but with less total enfskill than the Enfeeble Set)...

Shouldn't these be technically equally as accurate at landing (+-4)?

Obviously, the Enfeeble Set will be more potent with Distract, Frazzle, etc. but it seems like the Max Macc Set lands much more often on high tier mobs. Which if 1enf=~1acc this shouldn't be the case. If not, maybe I just got umlucky with my ENF set in the limited times I have attended as RDM on high tier mobs.

1 enfeebling doesn't equate to 1 macc when it comes to accuracy. It's probably closer to 0.9 or possibly lower... the dMND does factor in for macc, making the equation somewhat fluid.

Load up on +enf for your potency set, as you are. Know certain spells are never affected by potency, like bind, gravity, and sleep. Know some spells should always be attempted in potency first, like poison, slow, inundation. These are not exclusive lists, just examples.

I just want to reiterate this point because I think people don't realize this. For spells unaffected by Enfeebling skill potency, pure Magic accuracy will be easier to get and thus better since 1 enf skill =/= 1 macc. This is why you want to cast Frazzle II in max Macc gear then cast Frazzle III in max Potency gear to get the full affect. Spells like sleep or gravity never need to have enfeebling skill gear over macc gear unless the enfeebling gear has higher macc.

Like if a piece has 35 macc and 15 enf skill vs. a piece with 50 macc, you want the second piece for spells like Sleep, Silence, Gravity, Frazzle II. The first piece is better for Poison, Distract/Frazzle III.

Also, to my knowledge, Inundation is unaffected by enf skill potency so it should be in a max macc set.

BG Wiki claims that 1 magic skill = 1 magic accuracy.

Poison 1 2 and ga potency is affected by enfeebling skill

Slow 1&2, para 1&2, addle 1 &2 potency is affected by MND

Distract 3 & Frazzle 3 potency is affected by both enfeebling skill and MND

Figured I'd repost this.
I guess I should reso this now that medium's are perfect and I have skaoi but meh.