Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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By Chimerawizard 2020-06-18 10:01:00
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Asura.Botosi said: »
So I do a lot of quadboxing/tanking on RDM and I realized today that I can make a SIRD cure set that's pretty damn good and without much sacrifice;

Ammo: staunch tathlum +1 - 11%
Head: kaykaus mitra +1 (Path C) - 12%
Neck: phalaina locket
Ear1: magnetic earring - 8%
Ear2: mendicant's earring
Body: kaykaus bliaut +1 (Path C) - 12%
Hands: kaykaus cuffs +1 (Path A)
Ring1: evanescence ring - 5%
Ring2: stikini ring +1
Cape: Sucellos with SIRD +10% - 10%
Waist: rumination sash - 10%
Legs: kaykaus tights +1 (Path C) - 12%
Feet: kaykaus boots +1 (Path C) - 12%

What do you all think? Should have: 50% Cure Potency, Full Kaykaus +1 Set Bonus, 102% SIRD (with merits), and capped CCT.
a couple quick upgrades to the SIRD:
Freke ring - 10%
shinjutsu-no-obi +1 R15 - 15% I'm up way too early. that was conserve mp, not spell interrupt.
should allow an additional piece of kaykaus to be path A instead of C.
depending on the weapon selection, sacro bulwark or culminus could prove useful. idk
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By Lili 2020-06-18 22:50:24
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So, have been playing around with an Enriching Sword, because.

Added Enspell damage only applies to hits from the sword itself.
Added accuracy/attack with an enspell active applies to both hands.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2020-06-22 13:23:02
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1 question in 2 parts:
Does 'Enfeebling Magic Effect +' have a cap either in gear or per spell
And
Is the percentage static, based off of the lowest potency, or is it variable, being based on landed spell potency?
With an available 54% I would think that it caps and probably has a static potency per spell. As an example: if you're capable of landing a maxed Slow 2 with 54% in gear, 45%ish seems a little OP for Square, considering that Slow and Slow 2 are only 5% apart. Has any testing been done to see if the stat is like Phantom Roll + or Geomancy +, where the highest Stat takes precedent? Using either static or variable :30 x 1.14 (Lethargy Sayon+1 @14%), 30+(10 x 1.14) ; The variable potency capped at the highest available value rolls with Squares previous logic yielding a 34% Slow 2 vs a 41% using the static or uncapped effect of 46%.
There isnt any info about it on wiki and was just curious if anyone knew before I start loading up on Effect+ in favor of like MND or MACC or Skill.
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-06-22 13:41:27
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There's no cap, and it's a flat percentage increase for every spell it works on. 46% slow using lots of high end gear is not overpowered at all, especially considering that Carnage Elegy has been giving 50% slow with absolutely no gear for over 15 years.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-22 13:57:14
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Asura.Geriond said: »
There's no cap, and it's a flat percentage increase for every spell it works on. 46% slow using lots of high end gear is not overpowered at all, especially considering that Carnage Elegy has been giving 50% slow with absolutely no gear for over 15 years.

Siren also has 50% slow now.
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2020-06-22 15:24:31
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Is there a source for this per chance?
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By Quendi210 2020-06-22 17:09:59
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The testing done with the Dia line shows all the Enfeebling effect+ gear stacks. I've never done any testing on Slow but I have Distract and the increase correlates to the effect stacking. If there is a cap we haven't seen it yet with available gear.
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By Cerberus.Nolatari 2020-06-24 20:57:06
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Hey so can anyone tell me how magic accuracy skill applies to your magic accuracy overall?
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By Lili 2020-06-24 21:39:05
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Cerberus.Nolatari said: »
Hey so can anyone tell me how magic accuracy skill applies to your magic accuracy overall?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Magic_Accuracy
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By Cerberus.Nolatari 2020-06-24 21:53:58
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Thanks i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a weird mechanic'
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 03:23:28
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There is no reference to "Magic Accuracy Skill" on that page, or did it slip my eyes?

And yes Nolatari, "Magic Accuracy Skill" is a bit weird indeed.
Previously SE created confusion saying it converted 1:1 to macc, but it's not the case.
The conversion rate seems to be something like this, approximately:

215 MacSkill = +108 Macc
228 MacSkill = +115 Macc
242 MacSkill = +122 Macc
250 MacSkill = +126 Macc
255 MacSkill = +128 Macc
269 MacSkill = +135 Macc

Keep in mind that "Magic Accuracy Skill" works only in the main hand and gets ignored in the off hand.

It basically gives you a certain amount of macc.
Where exactely in the formula this amount of added, if it's additive with all other macc you get from gear or not, well that I don't know, nobody knows I'm afraid.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 04:13:40
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Asura.Sechs said: »
There is no reference to "Magic Accuracy Skill" on that page, or did it slip my eyes?

And yes Nolatari, "Magic Accuracy Skill" is a bit weird indeed.
Previously SE created confusion saying it converted 1:1 to macc, but it's not the case.
The conversion rate seems to be something like this, approximately:

215 MacSkill = +108 Macc
228 MacSkill = +115 Macc
242 MacSkill = +122 Macc
250 MacSkill = +126 Macc
255 MacSkill = +128 Macc
269 MacSkill = +135 Macc

Keep in mind that "Magic Accuracy Skill" works only in the main hand and gets ignored in the off hand.

It basically gives you a certain amount of macc.
Where exactely in the formula this amount of added, if it's additive with all other macc you get from gear or not, well that I don't know, nobody knows I'm afraid.

JP guy made a test that totally conflicts with this. I tried to necro bumb that thread, but with no success.

this test shows that Magic accuracy skill and magic accuracy is pretty much equal.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 04:43:12
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There's another post by Antisense somewhere, and another one by Pergatory.
I seem to remember a vey old one by Byrth as well.
Antisense's post is the one with the greatest detail.

It showed that each +1 Magic Accuracy Skill point provided less than 1% magic accuracy on elemental magic.
Meaning the conversion is not 1:1.
That test was suggesting something like 1:0.85 if I recall correctly.

The JP post you linked wasn't very conclusive but, at least for elemental magic, was suggesting something like 1:1

Then there's SE data, about which some JP asked confirmation for in 2018 on the JP forums and FFXI dev continued to report that their table (which is close to 1:0.5, rounded up) is correct.


So who are we to believe now?
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 04:52:25
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Then there's SE data, about which some JP asked confirmation for in 2018 on the JP forums and FFXI dev continued to report that their table (which is close to 1:0.5, rounded up) is correct.

That table was included in that JP blog and was a reason to do that test.

I honestly have no idea, but I'm willing to rather believe that SE made mistake and posted wrong table, rather than Lute failing his testing lol
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 05:15:14
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Yeah but the table was posted in 2017 (2016?) and was confirmed by some random jp dev guy on the jp forums in 2018, granted it was a pretty brief reply with no further data to demonstrate it, so meh, doesn't really "prove" anything in the end.


I dunno, does it matter for us?
I mean of course it does.
If the ratio is 1:1 the difference between a 255 MaccSkill weapon and a 228 MaccSkill weapon is gonna be much larger than if the rate is 1:0.5, and if it's 1:0.85 instead then it's something in between.
This is pretty simple to understand.
Let's take this example:

Staff A with 228 skill and 60 macc vs Sstaff B with 255 skill and 40 macc.
1:1 rate => A (288 macc) vs B (295 macc)
1:0.85 rate => A (254 macc) vs B (257 macc)
1:0.5 rate => A (174) vs B (168 macc)

I mean, different ratio would make A or B win accordingly (granted the difference is never incredibly big, in the example provided).
Point is though: do we have such a situation with REAL gear?
Because it seems to me any item that has higher Macc Skill and that you would use to enfeeble ALSO has same/more macc.

Take Daybreak vs Maxentius for instance.
Maxentius wins regardless of the conversion rate
(...until you start factoring the dSTAT values lol)
Or take Murgleis, ignoring stats it wins over any other option by over 30 macc, which is no joke.
Lastly let's consider Grioavolr, which sadly only has 228 macc skill.
Regardless of the conversion rate you still "need" grio for the EnfSkill+16 augment.

So really, wether the conversion rate is 0.5, 0.85 or 1, does it matter that much?
It does in theory, but in reality I don't think we currently have gear options where a different conversion ratio would make you choose one item rather than another.
Maybe I'm forgetting some important items for RDM?
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 06:17:26
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I mean I have one other theory, which is Magic accuracy skill is actually working on both hands, but while dual wielding its then halved on both weapons like this table shows.

That would have huge implication for wearing no ilvl weapon for hybrid and magic WS and would kinda explain while I eyeballing my macc drops rather significantly (on sudden lunge for example) when I offhand Thribron. It might also just be my imagination tho.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 06:26:56
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I remember SE clearly saying that Magic Accuracy Skill would work only MH and ignored OH when they introduced it.
BUT, they could've been lying of course.

I don't remember anyone performing a test to check if Magic Accuracy Skill is actually truly ignored OH or not.

Your theory of 1:1 MH and 1:0.5 OH could explain the average of 1:0.85 (within a reasonable margin of error) .
COULD, but reasonably I doubt it does because I'm pretty sure the tests Lute and Antisense performed were done with a single weapon in the mainhand.


Regardless, it would be interesting to test.
I wonder how would you proceed to test this?
I suppose like this:
Scenario 1 is T1 nukes. Pre-ilevel weapon MH and an ilevel weapon OH, without INT and without Macc, just Macc skill (a melee weapon is perfect for that purpose).
Scenario 2 would be identical but with a non-ilevel weapon OH too.

If the numbers you get are in line it means Macc Skill is ignored OH.
If the nubmers from Scenario 1 show a noticeable divergence from those of Scenario 2, then it means that OH Macc Skill is NOT ignored and then your theory would take shape!
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-06-25 08:08:03
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SimonSes said: »
I mean I have one other theory, which is Magic accuracy skill is actually working on both hands, but while dual wielding its then halved on both weapons like this table shows.

That would have huge implication for wearing no ilvl weapon for hybrid and magic WS and would kinda explain while I eyeballing my macc drops rather significantly (on sudden lunge for example) when I offhand Thribron. It might also just be my imagination tho.

Results of kclub trueflight show that kclub mainhand is a HUGE hit to trueflight. Does this help support your theory?
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 08:13:22
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Nope, it does not alas.
We already knew that Magic Accuracy Skill works in Main Hand (regardless of the conversion rate which is under debate).
Simon's theory is that Magic Accuracy Skill works in Offhand too instead of being ignored (like SE told us) but it does so at a reduced conversion rate compared to what you get in the main slot.

So Kclub in MH generating a damage sink in trueflight proves nothing because we already knew that would be so.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 08:26:45
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Simon's theory is that Magic Accuracy Skill works in Offhand too instead of being ignored (like SE told us) but it does so at a reduced conversion rate compared to what you get in the main slot.

I didnt exactly meant OH macc skill is reduced. I meant that when dual wielding game sums macc skill from mh and oh and divide it by 2. So essentially when you dual wielding 255 macc skill weapons, its the same as single wielding one 255 macc weapon, but when you dual wield 255 and non ilvl weapon, you basically get 127.5 macc skill, because thats avg from 255 and 0. Its pure theory tho.
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By Siren.Kyte 2020-06-25 08:39:32
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I believe the JP testing did not involve dual wielded setups, so the theory that that is the source of discrepancy doesn't really hold up.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 08:41:15
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Siren.Kyte said: »
I believe the JP testing did not involve dual wielded setups, so the theory that that is the source of discrepancy doesn't really hold up.
Yes, as I mentioned before neither Lute's nor Antisense's tests involved dualwielding, as far as I know.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 09:44:46
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Siren.Kyte said: »
I believe the JP testing did not involve dual wielded setups, so the theory that that is the source of discrepancy doesn't really hold up.

I havent said it's even related to Lute testing, so no idea why you guys would try to connect this. I just bring up another theory to check involving macc skill. I feel like my macc when offhanding non ilvl weapons drops way more than it should considering I barely lose and magic accuracy. SE table could be for dual wield setup and they posted it by mistake, or its not related at all. Sorry I wasnt clear enough.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 09:58:26
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I'm moderately skeptic that the thing you and other people seem to have noticed (drop in macc when offhanding non-ilvl weapon) is actually true, but in the end who knows.

I think it could probably be tested pretty easily with small samples using the setup I posted above.
That would be for elemental magic though, not sure what we could find for that would necessarily apply to Elemental/Hybrid WSs as well.
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By Siren.Kyte 2020-06-25 11:47:07
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I can't say I have any anecdotal experience that lines up with having unusual resists (including both debuffs and damage) when offhanding Thibron, and I've certainly had the opportunity for such a phenomenon to occur.

Relevant link: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/37600-Macc-No-longer-displayed?p=473450&viewfull=1#post473450
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By SimonSes 2020-06-25 12:59:12
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Quote:
*The "magic accuracy +" value listed in the table is the value when "magic accuracy skill +" is converted into "magic accuracy +." The value will be different than that which will be listed in the item help text.

Yet for Atinian Staff it lists +203 magic accuracy and it has +203 magic accuracy skill. Same for Iztaasu +1. Now Lehbrailg +1 is even funnier. It lists +156 magic accuracy and it has +153 magic accuracy skill..
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By Rhinos 2020-06-25 13:25:24
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SimonSes said: »
Quote:
*The "magic accuracy +" value listed in the table is the value when "magic accuracy skill +" is converted into "magic accuracy +." The value will be different than that which will be listed in the item help text.

Yet for Atinian Staff it lists +203 magic accuracy and it has +203 magic accuracy skill. Same for Iztaasu +1. Now Lehbrailg +1 is even funnier. It lists +156 magic accuracy and it has +153 magic accuracy skill..

I think what the chart is trying to convey is staves has higher macc conversion than swords of the same ilvl, and lower ilvl weapons have better conversion than higher ilvl of the same weapon type. i113 sword having the same conversion as i117 staff is just a coincidence.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-25 14:45:04
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This is something someone should specifically ask the next time SE fields questions.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-25 16:57:57
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Skill>Macc conversion rate being dynamic and changing according to weapon type and weapon ilevel is something I never considered, could explain some of the discrepancies we experienced during the multiple tests performed by various people.
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By Asura.Shaedhen 2020-06-26 04:23:12
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quick question regarding nuking sets and ele WS sets : Wouldn't Saevus Pendant +1 be a valid option instead of Baetyl Pendant ?

I know it has -6 macc (vs +5 mab) but I think we got a lot of new stuff with macc recently so maybe it wouldn't really be an issue.
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