SCH Vs. BLM

Language: JP EN DE FR
2010-09-08
New Items
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Scholar » SCH vs. BLM
SCH vs. BLM
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 9 10 11
 Unicorn.Uematsu
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: uematsi
Posts: 60
By Unicorn.Uematsu 2009-09-04 06:19:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bigheadkitty said:
Best thing ever. SE never releases anything past CoP. Remeber the days when you actually had to sort of know how to play a job and party well together to get xp. Skillchain and magicburst, hmm what are those. Maybe instead we can all hit auto attack and do a WS every 6 hits or so on something with wings for at least 25 levels. Then we all wonder why we are trying to kill a higher end mob and half the people dont know wtf to do. SCH vs BLM its like anythng else if the player sucks the job sucks. And resist by far make the biggest impact in this debate. Today on a simple ZNM SCH Tier 4 nukes for 65 damage on a consistent basis then the BLM 1000+ most of the time. All situations are different show me some pics of a SCH nuking Kirin for 1500+ consistently. Or show me a BLM as main healer as well as a nuker. It's all relevant to the event or situation. LMAO this is alot of rambling and I dont care if you flame me or not becuase in real life none of you really matter one bit or have any impact or major influence on my life. LOL its also a wall of text thats poorly constructed for a reason and that reason is to piss someone off who has no life outside of a fake world created by SE. That or an English major ad instead of reading this you should be busy teaching:)
PS. I love posts about walls of text those are the best.


I'm confused... Are you the person mad cause no life outside your wall of text fantasy?
[+]
 Unicorn.Uematsu
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: uematsi
Posts: 60
By Unicorn.Uematsu 2009-09-04 06:24:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enternius said:
Uematsu said:
Sir... pso xja is level 50's he said 60's, and that camp is mad xp. when i did it i got 33k in 1 hr. used anni band tho, so do math. 24k yup, believe it

I hope you realize that 33000/2 isn't 24000.

That's 16k exp per hour.


my bad your correct.. but thats better then your 8k an hour eh?
 Unicorn.Motokosun
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: mattchew
Posts: 270
By Unicorn.Motokosun 2009-09-04 06:26:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
i like blm personaly, both do what they do diff better.

BUT Uematsu is the true winner of the most posts in a row.

Damn lady you gone texty.
 Siren.Yunalie
Offline
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Rayln
Posts: 30
By Siren.Yunalie 2009-09-04 07:25:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enternius said:
Dasva said:
Lol clearly you haven't been 1hitting pets... I netted over 24k an hour consistently thru out the 60s until I had to move away from pets

Not only is that mathematically impossible (considering 250 exp is the cap for exp per mob, and respawn time is 1 minute, 30 seconds, equating to roughly 11,250 exp per hour MAX if you never had to heal and if mobs were never in awkward positions (Of course, this isn't accounting for chains which give roughly a 15% bonus to exp over time)), but even if you DO take BLM to 75, you get stuck with Mount Zhayolm manaburns which are NEVER over 10k per hour.


Havent read the entire QQ thread. But 250 cap per mob is bogus. You've OBVIOUSLY never been to V.Inlet. blm duo lbl 62 300 exp first kil no chain. Once again Ent is pulling facts from his ***. Hows that Ranged acc with Hasso treating you? Oh wait you pulled that out of your *** too. End of the day...

Its situational. Sch of course has its advantages, As does blm. You want big spike dmg, a blm will give it to you. YOu want the consistant DoT from a sch, who for some reason isn't in light arts curing. Then of course if your sch is giving your blms the correct weathers buffs and doing their job...who knows. Shall the debate rage on, and may Ent pull more facts from his ***.
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Knotts
Posts: 12
By Asura.Knottsmustang 2009-09-04 09:54:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I find this forum some what stupid because it is like saying War is better then Sam or Sam is better then War as a DD. I will admit that both jobs have thier skill sets and that is why SE made them that way. I have75 Sch andmy Brother has 75 Blm both are Elvaan. He out nukes me with his gear but I save huge amounts of MP with my stratagems. As it was stated already if Sch has the option to wear the gear as Blm does they would be more potent but they are a dual mage with White magic and excell in the aspects of thier Arts. Just stop trying to say one is better then the other due to they have thier positives and they both have thier negatives. Whitch in my opinion they are equal.
[+]
 Remora.Dubont
Offline
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
user: Dubont
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2009-09-04 10:16:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
*** it, blm/sch > blm/anything and sch/anything (well maybe not for main healing) at any rate

User submitted image
[+]
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2009-09-04 10:25:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
yea theyre equal, having threads like this where there is an obvious no winner just goes to show how well SE has made these two jobs.

also people seem to forget that blm has spells like burn, choke and shock which all stack together, in which with a 150int build makes a very formidable combination not to mention the fact that they drain int,vit and mnd. (blm not using these in correct situations need to look at themselves).
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 10:42:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Jaybess said:
i am sorry but wtf, u have blm M robs bashing sch's really wtf..... give sch M robe and see what happens really.. SCH doesnt get thos items cuz if they did they would break the game. whiles were at it rdm bears blm cuz u can refresh,

lol all in all 1 major factor stopping sch own blm and that is the lack of gear sch has since its a new job!.

give sch M robe/set,give sch weskit then see how its dmg is.

the best way is for some1 with sch AND blm 75 0 merits on both jobs with the SAME! gaar on the same day nuking

100 nukes of 1 spell and take the average from both jobs and see who does better dmg

all nice saying "what if" but untill blm can aspirGA in dynamis i will lets u guys "rest" since u drain ur mp pool in 3-4 nukes( depending on race)

all in all there are to much lolblms due to burn partys THATS the main reason blms are getting bashed

for events like dynamis "really" sch is the best jobs hands down, 5DD 1brd group just took a beatting with 2 back to back AoE TP move no fear AoE cure 4 cross party bk in2 dark arts bobs ur uncle

before kids start bashing ooo the mnks they need stuns >< no they dont ur ls sucks at killing them, and well sleeping mobs.... have 1 blm/sch in the mix for when u want 2 stacvk sleepga with sleepga ii sorted 3sch/blm 2sch/rdm 1brd will make 5 blm/rdm 1 brd look SO bad its a joke

until sch gets EG+ gear like M robe for itself the subject is stupid


Not sure if this was taken into account already, but here's my retort.

Only way you can compare 2 jobs together in the method you wish to would be to do the following:

Naked BLM and naked SCH go use stone I on a mob at the same time with no abilities up (no Dark Arts) and see the damage compared to each other.

Then, let the SCH use his Dark Arts, no stratgems.

Then, let the SCH use that 20% potency stratgem.

You will see that yes, the SCH WILL suck without abilities, and even the most basic ability will still underscore the BLM. With the 20% Potency, it might be equal.

I will test this theory out when my SCH friend gets online, and I will post the results of this on here for your entertainment.
 Odin.Karusan
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Karusan
Posts: 828
By Odin.Karusan 2009-09-04 10:54:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Not to spoil everything you guys have put into this thread but has the OP even read this once? Because I haven't seen him reply at all.

And you guys aren't answering his question even if he did read this.

Edit: And Korpg damn your avatar, damn damn damn damn.
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 10:58:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Boyaci said:
I'd like to read some reasons why you believe SCH is superior to BLM, or vice-versa as I decide which to take to 75.

My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?


This is the main point into the argument.

His subquestion, however, depends on his current job accepability. In other words, what of his current jobs does he like?

If PLD, WHM, RDM (main heal and buff) are the answers, then SCH would be more suited for him.

If RDM (nuking), DRK, THF, and RNG are the answers, than BLM would be more suited for him.

I hope you understand the reasoning behind why I would go with these choices and not "BLM IZ THE PWNZ, GO BLM!!" method, even though it is my viewpoint (somewhat).
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2009-09-04 10:59:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
we have answered his question by answering an unanswerable question. it was pretty obvious this would be a flame war as much as we've seen time and time again x10000.
 Seraph.Gael
Offline
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
user: Gael
Posts: 41
By Seraph.Gael 2009-09-04 11:00:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
(and dont forget there is an end game part... life doesnt stop with lolmob like puddings)
 Odin.Karusan
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Karusan
Posts: 828
By Odin.Karusan 2009-09-04 11:02:05
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Considering he hasn't posted a reply, he either doesn't care, has his answer or only said it to start a pissing contest.

Either way no matter how obvious I make it that you guys are just having a pissing contest, someone else will still come along to see if they can get higher.
 Carbuncle.Aliceisback
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Carbuncle.Aliceisback 2009-09-04 11:02:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If you want damage pick BLM if you wanna be the new RDM lvl SCH /endthread :)
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 11:11:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Karusan said:

Edit: And Korpg damn your avatar, damn damn damn damn.

What better way to make my point go across by having a distraction away from my point? In other words.......boobies, yum

Dirtyfinger said:
we have answered his question by answering an unanswerable question. it was pretty obvious this would be a flame war as much as we've seen time and time again x10000.


The answer is out there, its just that you don't accept it.

Gearwise, with the BEST possible gear, BLM will overaccomplish SCH. That is proven.

Meritwise, with the BEST set of merits, SCH will be a little better than BLM, because BLMs can get at most potency, but SCH will have the better potency/INT from hailstorm and that merit that makes it INT+7 (or so I heard).

I will post more points up in a little bit, but I'm about to do my comparative tests real quick, so I'll post those as soon as I can.
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2009-09-04 11:13:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Korpg said:
The answer is out there, its just that you don't accept it.


please quote where i havent accepted an answer for this expept saying they are equal and a pointless debate?
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 11:57:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Dirtyfinger said:
Korpg said:
The answer is out there, its just that you don't accept it.


please quote where i havent accepted an answer for this expept saying they are equal and a pointless debate?


There's your bias.

Here is the results of my experiment.

User submitted image

You will notice that A) we were both naked, B) we were both /WAR to kill subjob flux, C) He never beat my damage even with Stratagem.

Ok, I will admit that he was an Elvaan and his INT rating is 5 lower to a hume who I should have compared damage with, but this would have added 1-3 more damage to the totals, which is still not going to beat mine. His INT would have probably been 65 if he were hume.

The point is, he didn't beat me NAKED (thats the only way we could compare damage equally with the same gear on) so how can he beat me in damage geared? Only time a SCH ever beats a BLM is because the BLM geared wrong.

To prove another point, lets look at this SS that I just found on ffxiah.com's recent screenshots.

User submitted image

I can beat this damage easy WITHOUT day bonuses or weather bonuses on puddings. And without having the extra INT from Stormsurge. And without the Magic Crit+ from Witch Sash.

Now the argument shouldn't be who's the better Spike Damage, but who is the better Damage over Time, which the answer would be BLM/SCH for Dark Arts and -50% MP Stratagems.

There's the facts Dirtyfinger. I hope that people will finally accept this and learn from it.
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2009-09-04 12:02:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
no no quote me where i said 1 was better than the other, read all my posts on this htread
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 12:04:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You stated that the question is unanswerable.

I said it is, its been answered and you just don't accept it. You don't accept the answer, therefor you state that the question is unanswerable.
 Pandemonium.Vincevalentine
Offline
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user:
Posts: 110
By Pandemonium.Vincevalentine 2009-09-04 12:07:31
 Delete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Being biased means you lean towards one choice more than another. DF wasn't biased.

And comparing two jobs... Both based on INT, and you're going to bring in an ELVAAN to compare against? Congrats. You won the Special Olympics. Speaking of bias....
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 12:10:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Vincevalentine said:
Being biased means you lean towards one choice more than another. DF wasn't biased.

And comparing two jobs... Both based on INT, and you're going to bring in an ELVAAN to compare against? Congrats. You won the Special Olympics. Speaking of bias....


Korpg said:

Ok, I will admit that he was an Elvaan and his INT rating is 5 lower to a hume who I should have compared damage with, but this would have added 1-3 more damage to the totals, which is still not going to beat mine. His INT would have probably been 65 if he were hume.


So tell me, how does 53 damage (at max) going to beat 55 damage? Even if he was a hume, he still wouldn't have beaten me on damage. With his best damage going for him naked.
 Bahamut.Rumaha
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Rumaha
Posts: 10000
By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-09-04 12:11:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Can't compare anything without both subjects being 100% similar, you can't presume what 5 INT would do, rather then that you go get an exact match. Just the rules of comparing something, no variables.
 Pandemonium.Vincevalentine
Offline
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user:
Posts: 110
By Pandemonium.Vincevalentine 2009-09-04 12:13:38
 Delete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
At higher levels, and on higher tier spells, 5 INT will mean more than 1-3 damage.

And I honestly couldn't give a ***what you think, because you're biased towards BLM from the start. You made that obvious. I think both jobs are great, and people can change jobs when they need something slightly different. The OP just wanted to know which was superior. If you want to take everything into account, then it's SCH because BLM has one thing mastered: Damage. If you want to do both damage and healing, then SCH for the win.

You're still biased.
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2009-09-04 12:18:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
lol you talk out your *** sometimes, make things harder than they have to be
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 12:19:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Vincevalentine said:
At higher levels, and on higher tier spells, 5 INT will mean more than 1-3 damage.

Exactly... and don't forget native MAB of 44 while even /blm sch can only get 24 and then really if your gonna be that squishy the blm can /sch and get the similar mp efficiency. Then another 10MAB from merits. Sch can do a ***ton more and more mp efficientially but blm will do more dmg faster with fewer spells
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 12:23:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Rumaha said:
Can't compare anything without both subjects being 100% similar, you can't presume what 5 INT would do, rather then that you go get an exact match. Just the rules of comparing something, no variables.


wiki said:


Explanation of Factors

Calculation of D

Each magic tier has an inherent mutliplier value M.
Each magic spell has a base value V.
Let dINT be (Caster's INT - Target's INT).
(Banishes and Holy, substitute MND for INT).

For dINT < 0: D = V + dINT (when dINT is a penalty, the tier mult. is always 1)
For dINT > 0, but less than some inflection point: D = V + (dINT * M)
For dINT > 0, but after some inflection point: D = V + (const + (dINT-const) * M / 2))
(above some critical value, adding INT/MND becomes half as effective)
For dINT > 0, but after some cap: D = cap

Elemental Magic: (Caster's INT - Target's INT) * M = dINT

M = 1.0 for all Helix spells.
M = 1.0 for all Ichi and Ni Ninjutsu spells.
M = 1.0 for all tier I/II single-target spells.
M = 1.0 for all -ga spells up to Blizzaga II.
M = 1.5 for all San Ninjutsu spells.
M = 1.5 for all tier III single-target spells.
M = 1.5 for all -ga spells Thundaga II and beyond.
M = 2.0 for all tier IV and Ancient Magic spells.

Divine Magic: (Caster's MND - Target's MND) * M = dINT

M = 0.5 for Banish and Banishga.
M = 1.0 for Holy.
M = 1.0 for Banish II and Banishga II.
M = 1.5 for Banish III.

V values by spell:

Spell Earth Water Wind Fire Blizzard Thunder Dark Light
I 10 16 25 35 46 60 N/A 15
II 78 95 113 133 155 178 N/A 86
III 210 236 265 295 320 345 N/A
IV 381 410 440 472 506 541 N/A N/A
I-ga 56 74 93 120 145 172 N/A 52
II-ga 201 232 266 312 350 392 N/A
III-ga 434 480 527 589 642 697 N/A N/A
AM I 577 630 552 657 526 603 N/A N/A
AM II 710 710 710 710 710 710 N/A N/A
Holy N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Helix 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25
Ichi 10 10 10 10 10 10 N/A N/A
Ni 78 78 78 78 78 78 N/A N/A
San 105 105 105 105 105 105 N/A N/A


What this basically means is, going against the worms we killed, a difference of 5 INT equals 1.25 damage. Since, according to the formula, any extra INT after 40 over the mob's guestimated INT of 2, which leads to 42+ INT, each additional INT = .25 damage. This is why, MAB gear outweighs INT gear for lower leveled mobs. I promise you, if I cast stone I on that same worm with full MAB gear on, I would do 5-10x more damage than that, because the forumla (as you can see from here) shows that MAB calcualtions are different than INT calculations and are taken into affect AFTER resist.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 12:27:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Why not just use a higher tier spell on higher lvl mob in mostly same nuking gear? Actually ya know what I think I will
 Asura.Korpg
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Korpg
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 12:27:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Vincevalentine said:
At higher levels, and on higher tier spells, 5 INT will mean more than 1-3 damage.

And I honestly couldn't give a ***what you think, because you're biased towards BLM from the start. You made that obvious. I think both jobs are great, and people can change jobs when they need something slightly different. The OP just wanted to know which was superior. If you want to take everything into account, then it's SCH because BLM has one thing mastered: Damage. If you want to do both damage and healing, then SCH for the win.

You're still biased.


Of course I'm biased, I did the research and I found out which one is better.

I'm not going to do the research for you, so you have to figure it out for yourself.

Dasva said:
Vincevalentine said:
At higher levels, and on higher tier spells, 5 INT will mean more than 1-3 damage.

Exactly... and don't forget native MAB of 44 while even /blm sch can only get 24 and then really if your gonna be that squishy the blm can /sch and get the similar mp efficiency. Then another 10MAB from merits. Sch can do a ***ton more and more mp efficientially but blm will do more dmg faster with fewer spells


The SCH advantage goes away when a BLM subs SCH. SCH can never take the BLM advantage away because it will never do as much or more damage than a BLM. Its HOW you play your job that determines how effective it is.

That is my end point that people seem to disregard and nitpic at the little things that I keep on answering in my end point.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 12:30:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I don't. I agree that with the exception of doing more dmg per nuke sch can potentially do just about everything better. What few people realize is doing more dmg per nuke is actually more alot important than just epeening.
 Bahamut.Rumaha
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Rumaha
Posts: 10000
By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-09-04 12:48:05
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Korpg said:
Enternius said:
I just want to add something that's sorta related, this graph, by Kanican/Kaeko (You may know him as the best BLM who ever lived, who now condones SCH over BLM) shows just what I mean when I say SCH is the most efficient nuking job.

User submitted image


What about a graph showing a BLM/SCH using Parsimony?


If it follows the same increase path, 14.46 would be BLM w/ Parsimony, but that BLM might not be /sch and there are variables etc etc.
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 9 10 11
Log in to post.