Scythes - What Does SE Need To Do?

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Scythes - What does SE need to do?
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 16:16:41
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Almost all of them, but some more then others. When your doing a multi-part SC, the final WS is frequently used to close a double light or double dark from a previous WS that was the same WS.

Big two

WAR
Ukko's Fury -> Steel Cyclone -> Upheaval -> Ukko's Fury -> Ukko's Fury

DRK Scythe
Quietus / Cross Reaper -> Insurgency -> Entropy -> Quietus -> Quietus

Strangely enough, SAM multi-step wouldn't be effected by this.

Then all the jobs that do self Light / Dark by chaining an Emp WS to itself.

Sword
CDC -> CDC = Light

Dagger
RS -> RS = Darkness

Axe
Cloudsplitter -> Cloudsplitter = Darkness

H2H
VS -> VS = Light

And so forth.

With SC / MB's doing so much silly damage, the damage from self SCing is needed to make melee's remotely relevant.

But if certain SC's had enfeebling effects that stacked to do say slow down a ridiculously fast Krakken that will make even an Ochain PLD an MP sponge and that will resist typical forms of slow, then an appropriate multistep SC will be effective also with burst accuracy for those typical forms of slow.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2015-08-26 16:22:29
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Isn't this supposed to be about Scythe? I can understand how that would translate over to talking about WAR DRK and DRG, as they all suck right now compared to the mighty Mage/Ranger/Pet parties, but why has it escalated into people complaining about BLU, SAM and COR??

As far as I know, players can use BLU SAM and COR for events, and I never see anyone shouting for a WAR DRK or DRG specifically. Players want a SAM for quick skillchains, BLU for the versatility, and COR for rolls and damage/support (I end up as a support in Sinister Reign because COR ranged accuracy sucks).

When a group of players play the game for a certain kind of job (and their job isn't needed), they point out their jobs need some attention; and that's fine. But then other players, who don't care for the jobs in question, begin complaining their jobs suck too, even though they can still be used. All I see is a bunch of trolling, and it's not helpful or funny in the slightest.

I have BST on 99, I could gear it up (again) and join the bandwagon, but I don't play the game to play the latest bandwagon jobs. I'm not about to level Black Mage, or Ranger, or any other job which is more useful at this stage of the game. I stick with Corsair and Thief, and that's it. I can tolerate playing those jobs (as they are used to farm/in events) in content where DRK doesn't perform well.

I see fear from people who enjoy the jobs currently used. They are afraid that if enough people poke SE about WAR DRK and DRG, those jobs will suddenly get a huge update which will threaten their jobs. I can see why that may be distressing to some, no one wants their fave jobs to be left out. No one wants a job to be left out, what we need is testing (by SE), and to introduce different types of content so certain jobs perform better than others.

I could never understand why SE don't mix it up like they did with Assaults and other content which includes more randomness. If SE created content where you had to kill many enemies in a short time, immune to sleep, and tough to use pet jobs, then damage dealing jobs would be used more. Then all you would need is a buff to DRK WAR and DRG to bring them in line with other melee DD jobs, and then it wouldn't matter which DD job you take, as long as the player knows how to use the job.

I don't know, maybe it really is difficult to find balance between DD jobs. Maybe it is impossible for SE to use their test server to have DD jobs square off against enemies with the same buffs, with the same players, and see how they differ. It can't be that difficult to test the DPS of each job? I'm sure many players would jump on the test server right now if they announced they wanted to try and balance the melee jobs. I know I would. Or maybe they don't care? That's probably it. They don't care about WAR DRK or DRG as long as most jobs have a place; that's a success in their eyes.

And even with a Mythic, WAR DRK and DRG would have a hard time keeping up with a BST who knows how to play. BST is exceptional right now, and much safer. It's fairly obvious, send two BSTs into SR, give them pet rolls, and just stand back and watch. Send a WAR, DRK and DRG in there, and I can guarantee even the best DD are going to struggle to stay alive, and deliver the same DPS.
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-26 16:33:42
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I happen to love playing WAR and DRK. I lump those two together because of their similar play-styles and gear sets. Many of the things that hurt DRK now also hurt the other melee DD jobs, that's why we discuss them all together.

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I don't know, maybe it really is that difficult to find a little balance between DD jobs.

It really is, without resorting to proc gimmicks that is.

FFXI simply has too many DPS jobs while also having very flat gameplay. It's a game of mostly dice rolls and then it becomes a job of stacking as many +1's on your side of the dice to beat the enemies roll. I play lots of different MMO's with DDO and FFXIV being my two other ones right now as I take a break from FFXI, and the developers really painted themselves into a corner by just inflating stats as a form of power growth and difficulty scaling.

I listed earlier the things that would make Scythe competitive again vs the other melee jobs. Making it competitive against mage / pet parties is a completely different issue.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 16:35:28
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »

Jobs need to be rebalanced globally. SE needs to stop favoring particular jobs in an update every so often and overwriting one disbalance with another. You have a good point, a variety of different content demanding different jobs will force players to play other jobs and would make all jobs relevant.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 16:38:14
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Making it competitive against mage / pet parties is a completely different issue.

The recent pet job and offense mage adjustments need to finally get a rebalance between pre and post adjustments just like rudras did.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2015-08-26 16:54:20
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I said "the same WS". Not being unable to self-SC, but to spam the exact same WS to make a skillchain. CDC's OPness lies not only in the high DEX mod, the multi-hit Crit-based WS, but the fact that you can then mirror every other CDC's damage, all by buffing a single DD.

So going on your list there, this would effect BLU, THF, BST and MNK. Aside from MNK, each of those jobs could handle a nerf of this caliber just fine.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2015-08-26 16:58:44
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It would also nerf DRK (Quietus > Quietus > Darkness)

And WAR (Ukko > Ukko > Light)

And SAM (Fudo > Fudo > Light)

Also, BST does not melee enough to self-SC. BST doesn't melee at all, actually.

So, I have zero idea where you think you're going with this idea when it would nerf every single job, particularly the ones who need a buff most...
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 17:04:31
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
I said "the same WS". Not being unable to self-SC, but to spam the exact same WS to make a skillchain. CDC's OPness lies not only in the high DEX mod, the multi-hit Crit-based WS, but the fact that you can then mirror every other CDC's damage, all by buffing a single DD.

So going on your list there, this would effect BLU, THF, BST and MNK. Aside from MNK, each of those jobs could handle a nerf of this caliber just fine.

Yes but plenty of WS's that it outperforms can do that too and it is also a very important tool. But double light/darkness 2 step SCs are lame and players tend to simply focus on that just vomiting 1k WSs.

fTP values being raised for weaponskills by weapons such as Scythe so that they can be much more rewarding when waiting till max fTP for spike damage rather than zerging like a lot of BLU/THF/etc often do, though rudra's is obviously a good example of fTP scale. Even a majority of SAMs who do not recognize the reason they never see the insane Fudo and Light numbers some users post are more than just gear they are fTP 3k and stage 5 light.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2015-08-26 17:07:42
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
It would also nerf DRK (Quietus > Quietus > Darkness)

And WAR (Ukko > Ukko > Light)

And SAM (Fudo > Fudo > Light)

Also, BST does not melee enough to self-SC. BST doesn't melee at all, actually.

So, I have zero idea where you think you're going with this idea when it would nerf every single job, particularly the ones who need a buff most...

WAR and DRK need some major buffs to their WS's, and SAM typically does better doing a 4-step or something, doesn't it? I know SAM isn't locked in to Fudo being their only good WS, this would hardly effect them.

I don't know where I said this would nerf every single job. It would impact BLU the most, which is honestly the goal, and add a bit more variety to the game.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 17:09:19
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
All I see is a bunch of trolling, and it's not helpful or funny in the slightest.

Ignore them, they are just malicious and get off on it. A lot of them are the same people who force strategies like reric rng onry and being among the players who can benefit from isolating the casuals with relic requirements, etc.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2015-08-26 17:09:32
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Sylph.Oraen said: »
It would also nerf DRK (Quietus > Quietus > Darkness)

And WAR (Ukko > Ukko > Light)

And SAM (Fudo > Fudo > Light)

Also, BST does not melee enough to self-SC. BST doesn't melee at all, actually.

So, I have zero idea where you think you're going with this idea when it would nerf every single job, particularly the ones who need a buff most...

WAR and DRK need some major buffs to their WS's, and SAM typically does better doing a 4-step or something, doesn't it? I know SAM isn't locked in to Fudo being their only good WS, this would hardly effect them.

I don't know where I said this would nerf every single job. It would impact BLU the most, which is honestly the goal, and add a bit more variety to the game.

I'm saying it will nerf every job, including the ones who need a major buff? I just want to know why you think nerfing everything just to get to one job is really a good idea.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 17:18:20
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
I'm saying it will nerf every job, including the ones who need a major buff? I just want to know why you think nerfing everything just to get to one job is really a good idea.

Cause we should really be more focused on the benefits of full step skillchains instead of epeen parse numbers. I remember something I saw one player say, something like..

"The highest parse numbers are not necessarily what is best for the group and if anything the BRD and SCH always win the parse."

Obviously GEO can be included in that now.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2015-08-26 17:19:23
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Sylph.Oraen said: »
It would also nerf DRK (Quietus > Quietus > Darkness)

And WAR (Ukko > Ukko > Light)

And SAM (Fudo > Fudo > Light)

Also, BST does not melee enough to self-SC. BST doesn't melee at all, actually.

So, I have zero idea where you think you're going with this idea when it would nerf every single job, particularly the ones who need a buff most...

WAR and DRK need some major buffs to their WS's, and SAM typically does better doing a 4-step or something, doesn't it? I know SAM isn't locked in to Fudo being their only good WS, this would hardly effect them.

I don't know where I said this would nerf every single job. It would impact BLU the most, which is honestly the goal, and add a bit more variety to the game.

I'm saying it will nerf every job, including the ones who need a major buff? I just want to know why you think nerfing everything just to get to one job is really a good idea.

Not every jobs best WS self-skillchains with itself. So no, it won't nerf every job.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2015-08-26 17:32:11
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But those WSs are still used very often by the jobs mentioned, so YES, it will nerf every job. Not as much as some, but it's still a nerf to everything. Why not focus on buffing scythe WSs? Add fTP, change the modifiers to either stronger stats or increase the %, maybe add critical hit chance to certain ones. Stop trying to tear one down and bring everything else down in the process.
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-26 18:03:15
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Nyruul said: »
Sylph.Oraen said: »
I'm saying it will nerf every job, including the ones who need a major buff? I just want to know why you think nerfing everything just to get to one job is really a good idea.

Cause we should really be more focused on the benefits of full step skillchains instead of epeen parse numbers. I remember something I saw one player say, something like..

"The highest parse numbers are not necessarily what is best for the group and if anything the BRD and SCH always win the parse."

Obviously GEO can be included in that now.

Except it hurts the most the jobs that need buffed the most. It would make things even more unbalanced for reasons I specified before. That jobs that it would barely effect are the ones already on top. In effect your nerfing the weaker jobs big time while giving a small nerf to the small jobs.

Take SAM for example, you think of "Fudo Fudo Fudo" but that's not SAM's best mode of play.

Rana -> Shoha (Fragmentation) -> Fudo (Distortion) -> Kasha (Fusion) -> Shoha (Light) -> Fudo (Double Light)

That is SAM's best WS sequence and with their natural SC damage bonus it does monstrous damage. The SC effects at the end overpower the WS's that generated them, more so since MAB bonus grows with each successive SC so you get really crazy MB's.

Nerfing L3 Light / Dark self WS's won't do anything for that but it would really hurt WAR and DRK. The overall effect on BLU and THF would be negligible since those jobs generate so much damage melee's and don't do multi-step SC's. BST's just use pets and mage parties are still mage parties.


Quote:
I said "the same WS". Not being unable to self-SC, but to spam the exact same WS to make a skillchain. CDC's OPness lies not only in the high DEX mod, the multi-hit Crit-based WS, but the fact that you can then mirror every other CDC's damage, all by buffing a single DD.

Actually no. CDC's power is three fold.

Firstly fTP is copied on each hit and the WS started at 2.25 fTP on three + offhand hits. Previously it was 2.25 on first and 1.0 on the extra three. BLU's propensity for also having a lot of multi-attack further escalated this problem by having any DA or TA procs also be the main hands http://fTP.

Second CDC is a critical hit WS on a job that gets both CAB and a lot of +crit gear. Crit hit WS's are favorable on targets with high defense where your not near the attack cap. CDC's built in crit rate is also pretty good at 1000TP.

Third is that CDC is 80% DEX as it's WSC. DEX increase's both accuracy and crit rate, with a substantial effect on crit once your over 40 higher then the enemies AGI. dDEX from 0 ~ 40 scales very poorly but suddenly spikes at 41~50, this means any non-DEX based WS will be stuck at the +10% (base + merits) crit rate while CDC will have another 15% tossed on top of the 10% from base and 15% from 1000TP.

Put those three together and you have a very potent sword WS.

DRK on the other hand has GS and Scythe.

GS has resolution which is multi-hit and copies http://fTP. At 1000 + moonshade and belt/gorget your getting 1.11 fTP so multi-hit procs count for more, but the -15% attack makes it fail the second requirement of being good against high defense enemies. It meets the third by having high STR which is prefered for a non-crit WS due to bonus fSTR and attack. Torcleaver has slightly less fTP then Resolution and doesn't copy fTP to any additional hits. It use's VIT, which with stat vomit isn't bad, but STR would be preferred because we don't need extra critical defense and physical defense in our WS sets.

Scythe has Entropy which is a pretty mediocre WS. 1.075 fTP on four hits, now thankfully since it copies fTP any extra multi-hit procs also get a slight bonus. There is no attack bonus or crits but it restores MP, which is mostly wasted without Consume MP being worth a damn. It's WSC is INT, which like VIT isn't that bad with stat vomit but it's far from ideal because heavy gear with offensive stats tends to have low INT and we don't more magic stats in a melee WS. Quietus, ohh how SE got so close yet failed on this one. One hit 3.0 fTP severely limits it's total damage potential but it's mods are really nice. 60% STR + 60% MND, and while MND tends to be like INT, the STR mod is strong enough to more then compensate. It has defense down, which could of been absolutely crushingly amazing. Defense down scales better then attack bonus, a 50% defense down is the same as a +100% attack bonus, but Quietus 1000TP defense down is only 10%, 15% with moonshade. SC Properties are awesome on it makeing it a powerful closer for multi-step. SE was so close to making Scythe bad *** again, but they failed to raise the fTP and defense down effect relevant enough for it to compete against Great Sword much less other weapons. Insurgency and Cross Reaper also have their own issues respectively.

Ever since Abyssea Scythe has been a perfect case of "almost but not enough", which is sad because I loved being a LR SE Guillotine fool back at 75. Scythe doesn't need anything fancy, just a few numbers raised which could take all of 15 minutes to do. SE has been deliberately avoiding buffing 2H jobs right now.

On a side note, Infernal Scythe is actually really strong. It's not Leaden Salute / Wild Fire strong but it's still nice with Pixie Hairpin +1 and Archon Ring. It's only failing is it doesn't SC with itself so not useful for a GEO buffed SC + MB setup, which is where magic WS's really shine. Herc Slash on the other hand can make Fragmentation with itself but has a weaker WSC for magic WS and is a more resistible element.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2015-08-26 18:03:38
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
But those WSs are still used very often by the jobs mentioned, so YES, it will nerf every job. Not as much as some, but it's still a nerf to everything. Why not focus on buffing scythe WSs? Add fTP, change the modifiers to either stronger stats or increase the %, maybe add critical hit chance to certain ones. Stop trying to tear one down and bring everything else down in the process.

Just because they're using doesn't mean they're used to self-SC constantly, which is the only nerf I am proposing. This would have DD's focus more on WS's that will SC together (say THF moves to Evisceration > Rudra's) or simply spam their strongest WS. Meaning for the plethora of jobs that do not spam a WS to self-SC non-stop it will not effect them.

And BLU CDC spam can already make a joke of so much content, I don't like the idea of bringing everything up to it. As well, the only place BLU CDC spam doesn't work is because of survival issues, generally, not because BLU CDC spam gets stopped by anything.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 19:24:48
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Except it hurts the most the jobs that need buffed the most. It would make things even more unbalanced for reasons I specified before. That jobs that it would barely effect are the ones already on top. In effect your nerfing the weaker jobs big time while giving a small nerf to the small jobs.

You can't self skillchain on THF or BLU? Cause I use to do it on my bard subbing white mage. Random light SCs are obviously adding to alli DPS, so are the lights from spammed Fudo, VS, etc. However organizing and steping your skillchains instead of throwing out thoughtless stage 3 property WSs has a big benefit. Also it is pretty hard for those jobs to benefit from their SC properties when a lot of players just liberally use weaponskills. You pretty much have to determine other player's habits and work around them.

Asura.Saevel said: »
The SC effects at the end overpower the WS's that generated them, more so since MAB bonus grows with each successive SC so you get really crazy MB's.

The point is generally a lot of players just spam those weaponskills rather than getting a full benefit of what you yourself said. Instead of focusing on being the DD that is on the top of the parse players should be focusing more how quickly and effectively alliance/party DPS meets the mark.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Third is that CDC is 80% DEX as it's WSC. DEX increase's both accuracy and crit rate, with a substantial effect on crit once your over 40 higher then the enemies AGI. dDEX from 0 ~ 40 scales very poorly but suddenly spikes at 41~50, this means any non-DEX based WS will be stuck at the +10% (base + merits) crit rate while CDC will have another 15% tossed on top of the 10% from base and 15% from 1000TP.

More detail than needed, I clearly pointed this out. In fact this is followed by a huge spew of more than what is needed.

I'm well aware of the cases of INT and VIT being WS mods... Did you miss my emphasis on DEX being the mod for CDC? Or did I have to spew out video game math for you to see my point? Would you even see my point if I previously said everything you just said in the exact words?

I don't really disagree with your opinions and ideas but you often behave like you are a human encyclopedia being overly detailed to the point of redundancy and I often end up only seeing TLDR or this guy is talking to me like I don't know what I obviously know. Not trying to insult but you tend to come off as attacking in debate with me and with others I see you discussing topics with. Honestly you just come off as a troll with nothing better to do but synthetically inflate their ego, am I wrong?

There are several ways Scythe can be made more effective. But this game needs a global job balance instead of like I said before, introducing one disbalance after another.

IMO, TP gain and attack rates have gotten way too fast. Especially when BRD/WHM can self skillchain. This game is a mess in so many angles it is obvious why SE wants to scrap it.

Quit promoting a public argument that is derailing a thread.
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By Ulthakptah 2015-08-26 19:30:32
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Why does everything think thf self skillchains?
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By Nyruul 2015-08-26 19:38:56
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Ulthakptah said: »
Why does everything think thf self skillchains?

A moderately geared THF can easily open with a stacked Rudra's then build TP fast enough to close darkness with a 1k Rudra's. Obviously the reverse would be more effective but is not possible.

A Bard can open with Evisceration, a THF can close Darkness with a stack rudra's and then the THF or BRD can close another Darkness after.

I use to do things like this in pug groups a lot. Especially with ones that generally don't have good TP sets where my BRD out runs them in TP gain.
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By Ulthakptah 2015-08-26 19:45:37
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See that's what I'm saying, thf could, but it shouldn't it's a waste of tp to. Non stacked rudra's at 1000tp, why even bother. You would probably get better numbers with evis anyway. When I party we tend to come up with skillchains before the fight, normally with thf at the end. More often then not it's been pld Savage Blade with my Mandalic Stab.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2015-08-26 19:57:43
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Ulthakptah said: »
See that's what I'm saying, thf could, but it shouldn't it's a waste of tp to. Non stacked rudra's at 1000tp, why even bother. You would probably get better numbers with evis anyway. When I party we tend to come up with skillchains before the fight, normally with thf at the end. More often then not it's been pld Savage Blade with my Mandalic Stab.

1.25k TP Rudra's with mirror is still stronger than just about anything else you can do. You can only stack a WS twice a minute or so, so you're going to have to use unstacked WS's often, especially if you're able to get 1k TP in 3s.
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By Ramyrez 2015-08-27 08:16:12
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Nyruul said: »
You can complain about w.e you want, even if I say otherwise you would and should do what you want. I am pretty confident you know this lol.

Heh. Yeah. I was just being a smartass.

I've never been a big fan of pet jobs. Beastmaster was always the easiest to stomach for me. I still kinda hate summoner (as constituted in XI anyhow) and puppetmaster (because autos are creepy little *** death machines).

I still have problems with beastmaster throwing their pets at things until they're dead. Prefer dragoon or hunters in WoW in this way as you actually tame your pet and work with it as an actual pet, not just some discarded death machine.

So you add in my thematic dislikes of these jobs along with them being a wrench thrown into game mechanics as many of us are used to and prefer and my grudge against them runs deep. :x
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-27 10:43:43
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You can't self skillchain on THF or BLU?

It's obvious your incapable of reading more then three of four sentences. Maybe your should stick to a place where only 140 characters or less is allowed.
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By Siren.Kyte 2015-08-27 11:31:48
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Asura.Saevel said: »
On a side note, Infernal Scythe is actually really strong. It's not Leaden Salute / Wild Fire strong but it's still nice with Pixie Hairpin +1 and Archon Ring. It's only failing is it doesn't SC with itself so not useful for a GEO buffed SC + MB setup, which is where magic WS's really shine. Herc Slash on the other hand can make Fragmentation with itself but has a weaker WSC for magic WS and is a more resistible element.

If I were to make some modifications to scythe, a lot of it would be based around capitalizing on Infernal Scythe and magic bursting. Magic-oriented gear has gotten pretty easy to put together for DRK (and WAR, if they want to do the Cloudsplitter thing); this could be expanded upon by putting +MDMG, +MAB, and +INT onto most high level scythes, including existing ones. Given that it would probably be too weird to give Infernal level 2 properties, it would probably be best to just remove them entirely. Infernal also has a pretty good debuff that helps mitigate the extra damage DRKs tend to take.


Verda said:
And black halo pretty sweet now with all the MAB gear from SR and fencer.

what are you even talking about
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By Siren.Akson 2015-08-27 14:52:20
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Verda said: »
Anyway, maybe you guys knew this already maybe you didn't, but at the point where a player is in a lot of top end game gear, I'm not seeing DRK or WAR lag behind at all and sometimes ahead, which is crazy because they can also add utility and take some nice punishment. I'd comment on DRG if I ever played with a well geared one but I haven't they are super rare.
I couldn't agree more. If anything is wrong w/ DRK and needs fixing then same applies to all 2hnd jobs. I mentoned Liberator cuz idk what we are comparing Apocs to Kogas? Idk any amazing up-to-date career DRKs any longer but I'm sure they exist. Someplace.
I think the biggest issues atm are AoE dmg taken and untouchable evasion. Which ain't exactly a DRK problem. It's a problem for all DDs.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-27 18:57:45
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Siren.Akson said: »
Verda said: »
Anyway, maybe you guys knew this already maybe you didn't, but at the point where a player is in a lot of top end game gear, I'm not seeing DRK or WAR lag behind at all and sometimes ahead, which is crazy because they can also add utility and take some nice punishment. I'd comment on DRG if I ever played with a well geared one but I haven't they are super rare.
I couldn't agree more. If anything is wrong w/ DRK and needs fixing then same applies to all 2hnd jobs. I mentoned Liberator cuz idk what we are comparing Apocs to Kogas? Idk any amazing up-to-date career DRKs any longer but I'm sure they exist. Someplace.
I think the biggest issues atm are AoE dmg taken and untouchable evasion. Which ain't exactly a DRK problem. It's a problem for all DDs.


That was brought up earlier. DRK's gifts, traits and gear tends to be focused towards attack and not accuracy. This leaves DRK at a disadvantage when compared to the other three 2H jobs as each of them either has accuracy traits / gifts, or an ability that confers accuracy. Mostly the problem is one of utility and function in an environment where SE has overpowered the NM's. What SE did was watch how people were clearing delve, incursion and other content, then make the new content have higher stats then the old. And since we used stuff like COR GEO GEO BRD melee zerg, SE gave everything stupid evasion and defense. We weren't using big SC / MB previously so the magic related stats weren't turned up nearly as high, so now we're abusing those.

Whomever is SE's battle designer needs fired and not allowed to touch another game, ever.
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By Nyruul 2015-08-27 20:38:02
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Ramyrez said: »
Nyruul said: »
You can complain about w.e you want, even if I say otherwise you would and should do what you want. I am pretty confident you know this lol.

Heh. Yeah. I was just being a smartass.

I've never been a big fan of pet jobs. Beastmaster was always the easiest to stomach for me. I still kinda hate summoner (as constituted in XI anyhow) and puppetmaster (because autos are creepy little *** death machines).

I still have problems with beastmaster throwing their pets at things until they're dead. Prefer dragoon or hunters in WoW in this way as you actually tame your pet and work with it as an actual pet, not just some discarded death machine.

So you add in my thematic dislikes of these jobs along with them being a wrench thrown into game mechanics as many of us are used to and prefer and my grudge against them runs deep. :x

Yes, I know.

I feel the same about pet jobs for the most part. I was always annoyed by the fact that most groups I saw fighting NMs in Escha before Ny was banned were almost always a group of BST and maybe a GEO or COR.

There is some good utility in BST, like clearing through content no one really wants to do. But basically turning party requirements into stack BST and go out to lunch is nauseating. I would rather play Pokemon(no insult to Pokemon.)

Asura.Saevel said: »
Quote:
You can't self skillchain on THF or BLU?

It's obvious your incapable of reading more then three of four sentences. Maybe your should stick to a place where only 140 characters or less is allowed.

See, here is more of your pretension speaking. Maybe you should go to 4chan were insulting bigotry is praise worthy.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-08-28 09:07:45
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Siren.Akson said: »
Verda said: »
Anyway, maybe you guys knew this already maybe you didn't, but at the point where a player is in a lot of top end game gear, I'm not seeing DRK or WAR lag behind at all and sometimes ahead, which is crazy because they can also add utility and take some nice punishment. I'd comment on DRG if I ever played with a well geared one but I haven't they are super rare.
I couldn't agree more. If anything is wrong w/ DRK and needs fixing then same applies to all 2hnd jobs. I mentoned Liberator cuz idk what we are comparing Apocs to Kogas? Idk any amazing up-to-date career DRKs any longer but I'm sure they exist. Someplace.
I think the biggest issues atm are AoE dmg taken and untouchable evasion. Which ain't exactly a DRK problem. It's a problem for all DDs.
Liberator vs Koga isn't even close. Just because you've seen good Drks beat bad Sams doesn't mean the job isn't in a terrible place. Anecdotes don't mean anything. All DDs do not have the problem of Accuracy, Blu, Thf, and Dnc have great accuracy options.
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