Ninja Equipment Sets (April 2015)

I have a kikoku and eh its a competent katana but its really nothing special (except nice lockstyle model!) , and I wont be afterglowing mine.

SC flexibility is nice but honestly when im doing jp parties or anything like bc/NMs im using Hi/Shun instead to make sc's with other people most of the time.

I have the dross+hmp sitting around to make a kannagi but I really cant justify going that route when Nagi exists.
The one thing my ninja lacks right now is easy self skillchaining without crazy buffs, so its hard to see any other choice than Nagi because terp dancer got me addicted to mythic OA2-3.
If I made a kannagi I think it would be a bit frustrating not being able to sc easily with myself under less than perfect buff situation.

Don't really need "perf buff situation" to self SC, especially if you got good DW builds, but at the same time I can see your point.

I want it to be reliable enough that I could pull it off with just haste II, that way I could self sc and ninjitsu mb while messing around with just trusts or something.
Right now I need sam roll and stuff and its aggravatingly inconsistent to rely on gear DA/TA procs to get the tp in time.

If anyone has a set that can reliably self sc with low buffs without a nagi and no +1 119Abj gear, id love to see it.

I'm in the same boat as Sapphire as far as the HMP/Dross goes, but mythic is something that would take quite a long time due to me needing to do all of the quest pre-reqs before even thinking about it. I asked about Metsu mostly to see if it would be viable to keep the aftermath up without sacrificing too much damage. The recent pdif changes are what had me considering kikoku a bit more since that aftermath is really attractive on top of the +60 base attack. That said, I think I'm still going to stick to Kannagi. Thanks!

Metsu certainly isn't the best WS, but 60 attack and a 10% attack bonus aftermath is nothing to sneeze at. 60 second aftermath duration is pretty reasonable too, and Metsu is a much better fragmentation WS than Kamu.

I don't think there's really an outright "bad" or clearly lesser option among the RME katanas right now. Kannagi is a beastly offhand option, and a strong mainhand as well with OTD aftermath. Nagi has mythic AM3 of course, and the enmity+ and potentially macc are beneficial to lowman tanking applications. On the other hand, it's potentially counterproductive to use with Innin and struggles to keep up if you can't maintain AM3 efficiently. It also has the highest delay and lowest damage of the three. Facilitating self-SCs is potentially a thing, but I'm not sure how relevant such a low buff scenario really is with trusts these days.

Why is "low buffs" a thing? You should cap magic haste in any situation you use trusts, use a Brd trust. Self SCing with capped haste should not be an issue.

I don't think Metsu is too much of a sacrifice in order to keep AM up, no. Certainly well worth the minor loss in damage in order to get the rather strong new AM. I also agree with you that Kannagi is probably still the winner, but if you've already got a Kikoku or aren't willing to hassle with making an Empy, Kikoku is certainly solid.


Exactly.


Hmmm... Kannagi offhand? I think OTD aftermath is what really makes it, so I'd strongly prefer mainhanding it. But yeah it's still GOOD offhand for AGI and the dmg/delay/skill. But that does make me think - Kikoku offhand also works well with the hefty amount of Atk+ and same dmg/delay/skill.

I'm reeeeealy tempted to take my 90 Kannagi past HMP stage and have both Kannagi/Kikoku. I don't care about Nagi in the least, to me it's not worth the effort especially with this update and the heavier reliance on AM3.


Seriously. Cap magic haste and you should be perfectly fine. Or even get less than capped magical haste and it's still stupid easy to cap delay reduction with plenty of multiattack/store TP to allow for consistent self-SC.

I can still rock a capped delay set with ZERO magical haste and even that's generally fine to self SC pretty easily with minimal luck. Remember that it's not JUST DA/TA/QA procs, Daken is ~40% base proc rate and even higher with gifts - up to 14% more at 2000 JP (rate is +2/+3/+4/+5 at 150/500/1125/2000 JP). Even without the last two Daken gifts I don't have much problem self-SCing with no mythic when I'm delay capped on NIN.

The thing about mainhand Kannagi is this: what do you offhand with it? Unless I've remembered wrong or it was changed at some point, Kikoku's attack+60 wouldn't function in the offhand. Relic damage procs certainly don't. Kannagi's AGI+50 on the other hand does work in the offhand, providing a substantial boost to Hi damage, racc, and evasion/dAGI. It's not the all-around goodness of an offhand Twashtar or Almace, but it's still a really compelling option given what's available. If Kikoku does work offhand then it's a slightly different ballgame, I could potentially see Kannagi/Kikoku instead of the other way around if that's true.

I'd also be curious to hear if the attack works in offhand now. I know my lv 75 Kikoku doesn't and I am doubting they'd change it with the newest version, but who knows! As for offhand, I'd imagine options are Ochu, Taka, and maybe a good Kanaria.

Ah... yeah, would need the Atk+60 to work on both hands to make offhand Kikoku that appealing.

Other nice offhand options to any RME are Kanaria (so many good possible stats), Shigi (really quite good now), and Ochu. Edit: yeah, and Taka, which I forgot.

Taka

Now to just clear the NM that drops Taka....

I think the Shigi is a solid offhand with a fair bit of Utility.

ACC+76
-DT 5%
-Ninjustsu +10
RACC+50 for Daken
Ninjustsu recast delay -3 (or -4 combined with Mujin Mantle)
lol NTE
Enmity-10 (which I'd prfer on weapon over Enmity+10)

I'll use this for solo'd where I'm stacking some -DT (neck, back, ring, ring) = -32% DT


The other offhand I would like is a perfect Augmented Ochu (I think for good nuking sets having the Relic or Emph in mainhand keep's the DoT going, and a Max Ochu is an excellant nuking Katana, MD 108, MAB+14, All Stats +12, SB+8 to cap you most likely w/o Myoshu, MB DMG + 14. Perfectly Augmented it has around 130DMG, STR+22 DEX+22, Ninjustsu+10.


A main attraction to Kikoku is obviously the att+60 att+10% AM and Magic DMG+186 (and skill 269). Triple DMG proc is 13.5% which is grrreat and with the recent change to pDIF, as long as your lowering mobs defence & increasing yours, Shun is a Beast, and what makes it so good, is that it is a very reliable ws. Shun > CDC for nice DMG.

With that being said, now Shun is so good, Aeonic is probably going to be the best Katana to make.

50AGL tho is some +34 Base DMG added to the weapon for Blade Hi's.

For some reason I'm getting Raicho+1 outperforming perf Ochu offhand.
Talking just about melee/WS damage of course, not taking into consideration the possible MBs.

I don't get way, I can't explain how something like Raicho+1 can produce better results. Is it an error in the spreadsheet? A niche situation I unexpectedly created with my combination of gear and buffs?
If someone knows I'd like to hear more details.

Just Melee/WS;
Without buffs: Raicho+1 beating Kanaria (slightly) and Ochu max.
With buffs (Marches/HasteII): Kanaria beating Raicho+1 and Ochu max.
WS dmg: Kanaria beating Raicho+1 and Ochu max.
I remember someone saying their numbers would be off and did something to get them back.

How is the aftermath for Kikoku calculated? Does it apply it after all of your buffs or is it against your base attack? I ended up afterglowing my Kannagi but I'm wondering if it would be worth taking my Kikoku up this weekend. Also, I'm assuming the 60 attack does not apply to both hands again like it's previous versions, correct? Thanks!

BTW, I ran into a practical example of a situation where low buffs was "a thing" last night. Up with some LS mates doing some Escha-Ru'Aun T2s for drops. Setup was PLD NIN (me) and a bunch of mages. All I had on me was haste 1. Still capped delay reduction through DW gear, and was able to self-SC easily (if not waiting for SCH SCs). Wasn't using Nagi or OAx weapon - Kanaria main, offhand I switched between Shigi and Aizu.

But yeah, point remains - capped delay = you shouldn't have all that hard of a time self-SCing.


Yeah Shun is a freaking monster now with the changes. It's definitely my go-to WS unless using Hi/Metsu for SC purposes, and will get a big bump in performance with either Kikoku (Attack is really important for Shun damage) or Aeonic.

Empy mainhand users may still do better with Hi in general (I'd guess that's probably the case, but would want to see the math from someone who's confident in their work)... but even then, Shun is still gonna be strong and may even still win when pDIF capped. With the right mainhand (i.e. Relic/Aeonic), even with an offhand Kannagi I'd think Shun stands a pretty good chance of still winning despite the huge AGI bump.

I'm definitely finishing up Kikoku, but I'm really tempted to take Kannagi (mine currently @90) to max as well... If anything, effect on NIN of the RME update has been by far the most interesting job to me!


What augments on the Kanaria for these examples?

My Kanaria has DMG+16,ATT/ACC+12,STR+2,Crit Dmg+5%

This is my current TP set:
ItemSet 341916

Which Adhemar Path A for ACC/DEX/AGI
My two Katanas
MH: DMG7, ACC+8 Attack +7, Crit Hit Rate +2%
OH DMG6, ACC+15, Crit Hit D damage 1%
Herc Feet: DEX+14, Acc+21, Attack +14, Crit Hit Damage +1%
Tights: STR+9, DEX+8 DA+2, TA+2

I am aware that I do not have capped Delay here, trying to work out which bits I replace to cap this or any general improvements, this is mostly taken from my BLU sets. My BLU uses Suppa in place of Brutal to get the missing Delay I need on BLU should I do similar here or is there a better piece to replace?

It depends on how much magical haste you'll be getting. Most people use gearswap to switch at different intervals.

With two 227 delay katanas, the lowest delay possible is 90.8, so you want to be around that number.

With haste 2 + march II (from ghorn) you'll need 1% DW to cap (this equals 90.6 delay). Generally people just remove all DW in this case though, as you'll end up using less than ideal gear otherwise.

With haste 2 + march I (from ghorn) you'll need 4% DW in gear to hit cap (this equals 89.8 delay)

With haste 2 by itself, you'll need 21% DW to hit cap (this equals 89.6 delay)

Without any magical haste, you need 39% DW from gear to cap (88.5 delay)

HTH

Of course, if you're using a piece that's otherwise excellent, a few points over on DW has such a tiny negative impact that it's not worth worrying about. In particular, Adhemar Jacket on NIN is still a great piece even when you're capped magic haste (so, over by DW+4).


That's actually quite a good all purpose TP set with capped magical haste (Orestes set out the DW needs above). Basically same as mine, except I generally use Herc hands with TA+4 and Acc over Adhemar (those are pretty close though).

Some suggestions:

1) Assuming no Taki (likely scenario for most of us), Shigi is an awesome offhand. Low delay and extremely high acc. If you're acc capped even with meat, prob worth swapping it out... otherwise it's a really appealing choice.

2) Obviously can make acc swaps as necessary. In particular, swaps I like are:
* Cessance/Dignitary's earrings (Zennaroi works fine here too)
* Epona/Ramuh+1 rings (take out Epona for another acc ring if truly necessary)
* Dampening Tam (max) over Adhemar
* Maybe Olseni belt or Grounded Mantle+1

3) Augment wise:
* Those Herc feet are fantastic for Shun with DEX+14 aug, and certainly aren't BAD for TP. But I'd try to get another pair and augment for TP with fern stones. TA+4, maybe crit dmg, etc.

* Work on Kanaria as well, you're really gonna want double digit DMG+ on it to make it worthwhile. Goes up to... DMG+20~21 or so? I'm not completely sure of max, but that's in the ballpark. STR/DEX/AGI are all nice attribute augs (I'd prefer DEX to anything), and obviously Acc, Atk, and other random stats (crit dmg+!) are nice... but DMG is the priority.

* Until you do get a high DMG Kanaria, probably better off with mainhand Aizushintogo B (which is also nice whenever not capped magical haste), Ochu, or Izuna with good DMG.

Excess DW certainly does matter, there's no sense in sacrificing TP/hit without reason. You should use Herculean Vest with capped magic haste, not Adhemar/+1.

I'm certainly not advocating stacking DW unnecessarily, but going over 80.0% delay reduction by a couple points of DW is such a tiny TP/hit reduction that it's basically insignificant. *If* the other stats on the piece are good, it's not worth throwing the whole piece out because you're afraid of miniscule TP/hit loss that isn't going to change x-hit and at most might cause a TINY bit of lost TP overflow.

Herc Vest with good augments is indeed a great piece. It's also very hard to get for most players, and completely reasonable to not have.

Adhemar Jacket is also a great piece that's far more accessible to most. If you have it and no Herc, you'd be a fool not to use Adhemar for TP because you're afraid of having too much DW. Just don't use DW in other slots and you're going to be absolutely fine. It's still going to crush your other alternatives.

In fact, Adhemar is still arguably still better than Herc in many magic haste capped situations (particularly accuracy-heavy needs) unless you have extremely good Herc augs. And even with very good Herc augs, you're looking at something from sidegrade to a modest improvement. The DW giving no benefit and a miniscule negative effect on TP is beside the point.

Adhemar (NQ) B: STR+26 DEX+43 Acc+40 Atk+25 Racc+25 TA+3%
Herc (pre augment): STR+28 DEX+34 Acc+15 Racc+15 STP+3 Crit rate+3%

P.S. - though, I mean, yeah... S-E STILL shoulda removed the DW penalty at capped delay reduction and it's silly they never did.

After 10 days of grinding, finished both around the same time.
Sorry I just felt like sharing D:

Congrats! What do you think about the Kikoku? I need to get back to working on mine this weekend.

I think Kikoku is still great. Being able to use Innin abit longer than you would with Nagi on lol, whenever you're not the tank of course. The 10% attack from aftermath, upgraded skill/attack, makes this weapon much better than it was before.

I built a mab/burst set using 2 ochu samaha body and both burst rings...rest off the gear is all int and mab..I have not tested any ofc this yet, but I have heard of ninja bursting for alot of damage. I have 20 cp into ninja and was wondering if anyone has made a elemental set and what your merits were and what kind of burst damage you got on apex mobs

This was posted two pages ago

I see he is using san any idea in his merits?

Likely 1 in all 5/5 ice