~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

There are entirely 2 people losing their minds because they have incorrect understanding about sim and spreadsheet as tools, and starts pissing contest when being corrected.

Advice, if you can't tolerate people challenge your statement, don't post on forums. Because everything you said on a public forum, will be challenged. And better get damn prepared to defend for your stance.

I always admit I'm wrong on forums if someone correct it with reasons, logic and proof. So I can't help but be annoyed if others resort to pissing contest after being corrected.



I tried to re download sim and spreadsheet to check but couldn't find the exe version. But anyways, the moment I see this I can't help but feel you aren't trying to have a legit discussion. you are just trying to win.


You know damn well that normal ambu VD pt aren't getting 4 rolls, so why are you demanding pld and brd do 3500 dps or else DDs are trash?

You know damn well that you are citing a number that doesn't belong in normal endgame pt. 12k is very likely a number from short burst of high spike reso.

While it's fine to claim that you have witnessed 12k on scoreboard under XYZ condition because things happen (like several high spike reso happening in a row), why do you make it as a standard for brd and pld to meet in a 6 man ambuscade pt?

None of your argument shows the intention to have a discussion about pld DD potential when they play aggressively in endgame, when I see people resort to call others DD trash while you(nor majority of pt in community) arent doing VD faster either.

That's not discussion, that's trying to win. Please stop. You think I just pop on the forum and giving you ***fest, tbh I don't give a damn about you. It's all about the content of the post.

It's either correct info, or it's not. It either answer others question, or it doesn't. And if I say something because it doesn't meet the above criteria, just move on and let it go. You just chose a bad way to react via turning it into a pissing contest and look for opportunities to trash others DD so you win this discussion.

I made one statement about PLD should be DDing if they can, and posted parse result of DD pld performance in endgame to show that their contribution counts to support my argument. Whether a pld wants to play DD pld or dd run, or how they spend gil is completely different topic nor I care. If you just stop there and move on it wouldn't even turn into 5 pages of none sense. You just choose a bad way to react via calling others trash.

Footnote- yeah you can have four rolls in VD ambu if you're smart and have DPS who also can support... I've done COR COR RDM Tank GEO/BRD WHM quite a bit.

Im not a fan of this setup personally.

Id rather take even a 3 song bard over a second cor.

Without the bard your gonna need to use Geo Haste, which is a huge loss compared to other geo spells and capping Magic haste other ways.

If you use that setup in VD, it will result even further below max dps due to the 1450+ acc requirement. Without a brd you will need acc swaps and lose dps, without geo you won't cap attack. Haste, Acc and attack wasn't worth sacrificing for additional rolls like DA and misers(or hunters) roll.

The context of this argument is hitting max dps ceiling and whether RUN can hit 12k dps on scoreboard in endgame pt or not, less about 4 rolls itself. if having 4 rolls over having a brd or geo result dps lose in VD, then it shouldn't be in the discussion.

you need the rune.exe one, having it titled run.exe caused issues for some people

All I find was .py file for RUN. SAM and DRG has .exe.

oh, must have uploaded the wrong file when I renamed it, try now.

it's still missing several pieces of gear, though.

This month you can forgo the tank altogether. You only need someone that can pull and hold until the BRD sleep.

Projection at it's finest.

With haste 2 you only need a single outside source to cap haste, plus your red mage had best be able to pull this months Ambu, for God's sake it's easy. Your bard can also contribute to overall DPS, if you're not too far in the land of cookie cutter setups to let her. The fights themselves, pet mob, die rapidly to Savage Blade spam from your CORs and your RDM.

Done it a ton, just requires skill.

How about you answer the question posed earlier.

Why, when you knew hypothetically that PLD had all that gear, would you not instead tell them to focus on gearing another job so they can do more content? This is just bad advice. It shouldn't be controversial to say so.

It was actually to catch you in your exaggeration, as I pointed out earlier, I was saying show me a PLD that can do 1/3 of their 2 handed DD's damage without forgoing their tanking gear (and ruining the point of them being on PLD). You have failed to do this and either make excuses or change the subject.

You were simply wrong about this one mate. Using a DD PLD is fine if that's all you've got, but don't pretend that ***is optimal when it isn't.

Anyone who does invite a PLD is going to be a little pissed if they aren't keeping hate, (and if they are /WAR, they won't be), and even more irritated if they die on top of not keeping hate, which if they are using DD gear, they very well might.

Change the subject....seriously? Since when? My subject is consistent entire time. Questioning run hitting 12k dps and getting 4 rolls in an ambuscade party isn't changing the subject. It's entirely in line with the subject. You cant just look for a reason to invalide my parse result by saying my DD suck if brd pld isnt hitting 3.5k dps, while creating a scenario that's obviously not even in ambu. It's a damn cheap way to invalide others point to win the argument.

And who said DD pld is optimal? I only posted parse result to show DD plds contribution in pt, thats it. It doesnt go anything beyond that. If testimonials said pld And brd does 1/3 dps of another dd, then it's just a data to help people to make decisions, and data has no meaning unless you give them a meaning. Like interpreting a parse result into something else like Afa advocating DD pld being optimal.

No, I didn't advocate pld DD being optimal all the time. I think it's a goal a pld should aim for because more dps is more dps, but they are free to job change to a DD run if they prefer a better hybrid DD job.

My only issue is people invaliding data like parse result with personal attack and another data in completely different condition to win the argument.
It's emotional argument at best.


"Wrong", because Byrne said so, ok.

If you want to convince I'm wrong, convince with logic and data in a legit testing environment.

Thats not the question being asked.

This is a pattern in individuals, not just in FFXI but daily life, that ticks me off endlessly.

If I am asking you about topic A, a specific question foo, and you go off on some tangent that doesnt answer my question and instead assumes I don't know something else, you are treating me like an idiot who doesn't know said tangential things.

IE If I ask about best weaponskill for Excalibur and you start talking about how Burtgang is better, it does 2 things.

1. Yes I know burtgang is better, I didn't ask that, thats not the discussion. Also you have now implied I didn't know that already, you are treating me like an idiot.

2. You have wasted my time talking about stuff I don't care about.

tl;dr: If I wanted to know what is better, Burtgang vs Excalibur, my question would have been "Which is better, Burtgang or Excalibur"

But thats not the question I asked. Anything you say orthogonal to my question treats me like an idiot and wastes my time.

Stop it. It makes you look like an *** and annoys everyone actually involved in the discussion.

Now, if you don't actually have meaningful contributions to the discussion of "Which weaponskill puts out the best DPS for an Excalibur Paladin" I'm not interested in much else at the moment.

If I was, I would ask it.

The setup you mentioned would just be strictly better by swapping 1 cor for a Geo or Brd.

Cor+Geo+Brd is just better than Cor+Cor+Geo/Brd.

Unless your second cor is a Regal Cor as well, and your option for a Geo or Brd is a Dunma Geo or 3 song bard. Then... Maybe.

But I think I'd still take a 3 song brd over a second Regal cor putting up the less wanted rolls.

If you go Cor+Cor+Geo+rdm you need Geo Haste to cap.

That's a major setback. You don't want to have to resort to Geo Haste just so you can get moar cor rolls.

Will it work? Sure, Hell with an optimal setup of people I bet I could clear Ambu with just Idris Geo, Regal Cor, 4 Song Brd, and one pimp DD.

Does that mean its an optimal setup? No.

But we also are probably talking like, shaving 20~30 seconds off your clear speed here.

And on Asura at least, the *real* key to your ambu farm speed is players being on the ball for grabbing their KI and getting back to town, lets be real here.

I ask the question back at you. Seriously? Don't bring logic into the conversation if you don't even know how it works. The last time I got into an argument with you I had to correct no fewer than 12 logical fallacies that you didn't even realize you were making. Don't you dare invoke logic when you don't understand it yourself, hypocrite.

Also you seem hyper fixated on the fact that I "Called your DD trash". You need to pay more attention to wording, because that is, again, not what I said. I said any DD that CANNOT do more than 1/3 the damage of a PLD attacking in DT gear is trash.

I'm also done with this conversation, because every time I ask a question, it gets deflected.

I said pld played aggressively in the very first post, implying they are not turtling.

So why are you adding conditions like pld turtling on your own. Seems like your goal of adding conditions not mentioned at all is to create the opportunity to play the "your DDs are trash" card.

Still makes no sense, but whatever.



Then maybe you need to learn to ask questions in a nicer And polite way, something like "is your pld in dt set when they parse 1/3 of real DD?" Not something condescending like "your DD are trash if pld parse 1/3 in dt set." Using words like "trash" is just rude, but internet.

Is there a decent HP+ belt outside of Gold Moogle belt? Or something. I'm running into the problem of: My BLU enmity set dropping my health by 1k~ every cast...and yeah>.>

Silver moogle belt? lol. Ok, I'm done being not helpful. Although, if you do happen to have a silver moogle belt, at 3k HP before the belt it'd add 60 HP. Which matches or beats everything but gold moogle belt.

As for other options

Steppe sash +60 HP(Taru only!)
Oneiros belt +55 HP
Creed baudrier +40 HP, and +5 enmity.

Honestly, the belt is probably not the slot to focus on for this issue. Might be best to just use creed for the enmity/HP combo, then look at other slots.

Ultimately, if you want to maintain high HP you'll likely have to give up some enmity in other slots. The question then is where can you give up the least enmity, for the most HP?

I don't know what your current enmity set looks like, so I can only give general advice based on reasonable assumptions, but... I'd suggest looking at using C path souveran +1 hands/feet over the enmity optimal options like Yorium hands and eschite greaves. Both of those swaps drop about 6 enmity, but gain about 200 HP each. Not to mention maintaining good PDT/DT while casting.

Just look at swaps like that, looking at how much HP you're gaining for each point of enmity lost, till you reach your HP goal.

How dare you not be able to give me info without knowing my sets! :P

ItemSet 360420
Is my current Blue spell enmity set. (It's basically my SIRD+Some Enmity set.)

Edit: I dropped the enmity on rings (+5 each) in favor if 2 Moonbeam's for that extra 100HP each. I can change Souveran legs to Carmine for the 20% SIRD and swap back to Path C Souveran feet for more HP, which should also allow me to drop the belt in favor of something else unless my math is wrong.

On the set for Phalanx, it has a few Odyssean pieces with Phalanx + augs. I've been looking for which stones in particular gave that augment. I tired each one for both magic and melee. After looking it up, the only thing I've found so far is Dark matter. Was wondering if that was the only way to get it?

Yeah, that's Dark Matter only.

Ahh, so you're doubling up. Yeah, trying to cap SIRD, pack as much enmity in as you can, and keep HP high.. that's a lot harder.

Am I totaling this up wrong or does that set only have 97% SIRD with merits? Do you have SIRD on the cape? That would make sense.

Assuming that's the case, if you used founder's legs(+30% SIRD) rather than carmine then you could change feet and hands to souveran+1(C path.) Which would be a ton of HP gain. And I'd say the hands slot is more valuable than the waist slot in this case.

But if you really wanted that waist slot back, then HQ'ing your neck would put you at 104% SIRD not to mention netting you another +5 enmity. And freeing up the waist slot for more HP/Enmity. Although the price tag for Moonlight necklace is... hefty.

In other options...

Thureous -> Cryptic would be +10 HP/+4 enmity. But costs you 30 MP.
-Thureous -> Halasz(+5% SIRD) would have a similar effect to getting HQ neck, freeing up the waist slot. But you'd drop 30 HP in doing so, and only get 40 back from creed baudrier. So it's almost the same as just switching to Cryptic(1 enmity difference)

This one is probably obvious, but.. C path souveran body+1 is a +10 enmity and about +100 HP gain over Emet+1. Has the added benefit of making you a lot tougher while casting. Not just from it's own DT, and high def/vit, but also from the set bonus activating with your other Souveran pieces.

Yeah, I have SIRD+10/Enmity +10 on the cape. I just actually unlocked access to Sinister Reign, so I have no clue how difficult it actually is, but I could give it a shot. HQ Neck is out of my price range atm :x And ha, finding people willing to do Pakecet is pretty difficult atm, people seem to avoid doing the t3 ru'auns lol
Yeah, it's difficult cause right now my blu enmity isn't a toggle- it's just flat out this set (No clue how to do toggle, and adding another set wasn't working so I just made this the default enmity set, then another one for flash.) So keeping the sird and enmity high is sadly something i'm realizing is very difficult to do lol

As per discussion on this thread over here: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52431/phalanx-102-sird-set/

Hands down the first odyssean piece you want to try and roll Phalanx on is feet, without a doubt.

not really, lol

I know this is a nitpick and there's a lot of that going on, but curious why we need Haste here? If you give me haste on COR, you don't know what you're doing. DDs are both CORs, PLD should be fine with just a haste1, probably rough recast of 20s on Flash.. no hate resets and not fighting a group of mobs.

As for accuracy, with 2 CORs, you'd likely be doing SAM CHAOS Hunter.. I don't know.. Rogues? or dealer's choice on the last one. Seems like a valid setup to me with two solid DD CORs.

Ok, thank you both very much. Also, thank you for pointing me to this thread, I didn’t think about using the feet since Sov +1 has Phalanx on it also. I have the feet already for the SIRD that’s on them.
Going to see if I can get the other pieces of gear before the dark matter campaign starts later this week. Hopefully I will get lucky.

Haste aka capping magic haste, not COR/WHM casting haste 1 if that's what you mean.

Buffs in FFXI works in a way that certain buffs combination produces best result, and certain buff produces worse result. You can't just change 1 support like brd or geo to a different support like 2nd cor and expect the same result, it doesn't work that way.

Further more, because of how buffs amplify DPS output in higher level content and how WS works with each other, a super buffed DD x1 getting all 3 different support buffs often has same or more output than a half buffed DD x2 or DD x3.

Basically, that means in ambuscade VD, Tank, DD, COR, BRD, GEO, healer will have much higher output than something like Tank, DD, DD, COR, BRD, healer or Tank, DD, COR, COR, GEO, healer or any buff combination that does not include all 3 different types of support.

Many people doesn't seem to understand why, but if you look at the potency of what each buffs do then you'd know.

In A setup with COR COR RDM Tank GEO WHM aka what seeker proposed, this is the buffs you'll be getting: Chaos/Sam/Hunter/DA or Rogues, haste/frailty entrust wilt/fade.

My max dps tp set is about 1084 acc (or lower if I swap out adhemar +1 hands for DM herc hands)Hunter's roll has average of 70, food is roughly 100, distract has -130 eva based on bg wiki info. Most of the VD has acc requirement of 1450. Even with hunters+distract III + food it's still not reaching 1450 acc requirement without acc swap.

And acc swap on COR loses big chunk of DPS since majority of damage came from WS. Slower TP speed = horrible DPS. There's a pretty huge difference between a COR getting capped acc/attack buffs and without.

Further more, because one GEO buff slot is dedicated to haste, you'd have to sacrifice either defensive bubble or fury, resulting even more DPS lose.

If you change the GEO to a BRD then you lose frailty and attack probably won't be capped, and you also lose defensive bubble which is often the key between smooth/fast runs and slow runs with everyone dying or turtling.

I've done tons of tests and fastest VD run has always been:
DD RUN, DD, DD COR, DD BRD, GEO, RDM, using Chaos/SAM/Honor march/madrigal x2/minuet/fury/frailty/entrust fade or wilt/haste2/inundation.

This setup caps pdif, acc, magic haste, has a slot for defensive bubble, and has 4 person doing dps. Tried any other setup and none of them has same level of clear speed as setup listed above.

That's just how FFXI works, getting capped acc and attack just yield better result than not capping any. And COR is just kind of the job that stacking 2 in the same pt has diminishing effects. Any additional roll after chaos/sam just has pretty low potency. 70 acc from hunter isn't enough to deal with today's endgame acc requirement, if you need acc it's brd or bust. DA roll is pretty meh with all the multi attack we have, and rogues roll pretty much only benefits CDC users or...MNK? It's just not worth sacrificing the advantage of BRD and GEO for a 2nd cor for 4 rolls.

While setup like tank COR COR DD BRD/GEO WHM probably would work, it's just not optimal. you are turning your 3 min VD RUN into potentially 5 to 6 min or more, because everyone either has to turtle, or swap to high acc sets. And their ws won't hit as hard without capped pdif.