~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

I've been asking around for help on my server for quite some time.
I have managed to get a pair when I've came back to the game, but since few weekns no luck with finding ppl to help me.
Will keep asking.

An Enmity tracker would be incredibly useful. Want.

But it'd also be very difficult to do. There's just so many factors. Some of which I don't think we can really account for.

While we could total up the CE/VE for various actions, we'd need to account for the effects of enmity gear. Simple enough to do for the player, but I don't think there's a way to check the enmity+/- for other players on every singe action. And in the case of healers you'd have to account for stuff like tranquil heart. And calculating that correctly would require knowing how much healing skill the the one curing had at the time of the cure...

Then there's stuff like CE lost via dmg taken, which is also affected by enmity +/-. And we don't even know by how much or if the effect caps. Or partial/full hate resets. And then there's the fact that the enmity gain from dmg dealt is affected by the mobs level. So you'd need to get the correct level for every target. Which is at least possible.

There's just a lot of issues with trying to accurately track enmity. And if it's not accurate, it's not very helpful.

So while I'd love to see an enmity addon, it doesn't really seem practical. Unless there's some way to get enmity data straight form the servers. But so far as I'm aware there's not.

It would be difficult to get the numbers right, but it would change alot of how the game is played.

If a DD knew they NEEDED to back off for a sec to not die, less people would take hate and eat ***especially after a hate reset they could see when hate was reestablished.

That being said, I don't think it's an insurmountable problem, but as long as there is no information being sent to the client involving exact hate values, any system created could be made would be victim to updates breaking the system. (being out of date and useless.)

Though I am curious if the JA Libra just reads information on the client or polls the info from the server.

Shot me a /t sometime and I'll help you kill it.

It would change a great deal, and I'd love it.

But there are some aspects of these issues that I don't see an effective way around. The enmity gear/merits of others being one of those.

About the libra packet. Even if it sent back the entire hate list in CE/VE, using that to make an addon would require spamming the server with Libra packets, which would be incredibly suspicious. SE doesn't appear to be real on the ball about banning people abusing packets, but I don't think I'd want that risk.

I feel like while this is a way to do it, you would probably have to have all of the enmity formulas compiled and a program would keep track of all the actions of the group and tally them in real time. Of course this would not be accurate, but it could still be helpful, and not going to raise any red flags with the po-po. Maybe you could plug in your enmity set to be a little more accurate, but it would still be an estimate for the rest of the group.

Thing is, this has to actually be accurate to be useful.

If a healer's enmity +/- value isn't accounted for, and they had enmity -50 then the calculated value would be double that of the actual value. Not helpful. Not that dangerous either since they wouldn't be taking hate when the addon indicates they should.

For DD's you first have to have the monster's level before you can even begin to calculate enmity. And then any enmity +/- on them can make a significant difference in when they actually pull hate.

It's knowing when someone is close to pulling hate that makes this useful. And if it tells you you're getting hate too late, you may end up dead. If it tells you too early, then you're throttling dmg output before you need to and lowering efficiency. If you're going to be taking action based on the info given to you by an addon, that info needs to be accurate. If not perfectly, then very closely.

Oh, and magic bursts and magic WS. Magic bursts have massively reduced enmity gain. but we don't have a clue how reduced it is. And magical WS have some really weird enmity properties. Only the enmity for the base dmg+WSC is factored. Dmg bonuses from MAB/Weather/affinity don't count towards enmity generated. How the hell would you figure that out for another player?

And there's CE loss from dmg taken again. Based on the damaged player's maxHP the damage taken, and any enmity+/-. Thing is, we don't have a clue how much any +/- affect damage based CE loss. It hasn't been tested at all so far as I'm aware.

While I'd be ecstatic with an enmity tracking addon, and I'd support any attempts to make a good one, I see a lot of issues that will be very hard to resolve. At least from my limited knowledge of coding, packets, and what information is available to the game client. And there's also just some flat out gaps in our knowledge of certain enmity mechanics that need to be patched up.

I was not suggesting sending packets, rather if it was information that already was client side, unlikely but there are things that is on client side that normally you don't see.

That being said, I don't know how many years its been since a healer pulled hate off of me, unless it was right after a hate reset.

And it would not need to be 100% accurate, as long as its not positive enmity someone has in their gear, having less enmity rarely is an issue. Also it could be possible to then change the table of enmity to reduce the value, again not 100% accurate. Fortunately some things like the relic gun's AM could be accounted for since party stats are info that is on the client side. I think even if the add on only saw your total CE/VE levels that could let you tell pt to back off or start zerg.

Maybe even have healers give you the +/- that they use in cure sets would be enough to edit their table. Since most na spells and such pull incredibly low hate.

For hate reset its easier to tell just by reading the tp move in chat log.

True but most people that don't play tanks, are unaware of when it happens in my experience.

Healers could also use just the log to know when people have debuffs on but rarely have I seen healers actually read the log and take debuffs off.

Well back in the days the add on that displays status icon didnt exist so reading the chat log was the only way to tell if someone needs na.

True and just by having it, has not remedied the problem.
It still happens today, and even if there were an addon that could tell you if your high on the hate list or not, some people would still not use it, but it would still be valuable.

I still know people that are unaware of the SE made display of debuffs.

So i'm setting up my Spell interruption set for /blu (Mainly), and I'm wondering. I'm putting SIR in my midcast, does that mean when the spell goes off, it'll cast *in* my SIR gear? Or does it swap to my enmity set that's supposed to fire off on-non blu spells?

It's going to cast in your SIRD gear.

There's no surefire way to use both full SIRD gear and enmity gear. You have to decide what you're going to prioritize. Successful casting, or more potent casts when you do get a cast off.

Hmm. Alright thanks.

As a very well geared paladin, between Almace and Excalibur, which sword is going to net me faster DPS overall for solo fights?

I like to solo high tier battlefields for gil, and am looking at ways to speed up my kill speed.

I have almost finished my almace, but before I dump all my gil into heavy metals I want to be sure Almace performs better than an Excalibur.

Not making Burtgang because it is significantly more expensive, and I only have about 100mil on hand after selling out a bunch of my resources and consuming all of my voidstones. So though I can almost finish almace or finish an entire excalibur, I can't afford burtgang.

So. Which of the two performs better, and by how large of a margin?

I have both and lean towards Excal. Maintaining AM3 on PLD isn’t fun.

Ive been tweaking a Knights of Round ws set on dps spreadsheet and even with top of the line gear and Excals 40%ws dmg, its seeming like Chant is the better ws anyways.

Am I crazy or is spamming Chant with an Excal the way to go?

If youre able to melee anything seriously while on pld, burt is the best option. Although, being on pld for anything serious you shouldnt be smacking it with your sword anyways. Just make burt. After youve made a ***excal youll realize its not good enough. Then make an almace which is pointless for pld again. Then youll eventually make burt. Which should have been your focus from the get go.

What about Sequence? If you stack enough WSD then you can probably pull pretty high numbers on this thing with 1750TP

Actually, Savage Blade should typically be your go-to weapon skill, unless you are making a skillchain. Even then, just spamming Savage Blade may even be better for you than the damage from CDC -> CDC -> Light. PLD gets a decent amount of gear for boosting Savage Blade.


That depends on what your goal is.

As most people say, Burtgang is going to be the weapon that best helps a PLD do what he is expected to do at endgame (tank and stay alive). But, as a PLD in my LS (without a Burtgang) has said: "I don't particularly like playing PLD, and I have already successfully tanked every major fight in the game without one...so why would I go through the effort of making one?" And it's true...a Burtgang isn't required to be successful at endgame tanking. It just provides you even more of what you need to do your job well....it essentially allows you more room for error, so to speak. That being said, this player would rather focus on gearing other jobs, rather than make a mythic for a job he doesn't particularly enjoy that much.

In regards to Sequence, if your goal is damage...it is a good option. It is one of the best damage-dealing sword options for a PLD. The 500tp bonus is going to make your Savage Blades all the more effective.

Burt's main appeal is the EMN+. Keeping up AM3 on PLD is a chore.

CDC vs KoT comes down to ACC. 1hit getting the 100acc bonus.

KoT vs Savage comes down to the lack of excess TP PLD gets. 4.0+bonus at 1000tp vs 7.0. KoT has superior SC properties.

Sequence is prob the best DPS sword, followed by Excal, unless you can keep AM3 up on Burt via wings.

Excal has the best 1000tp WS, Relic x3 procs and added effect procs.

Burt's main appeal is the pdt II.............

Is it though? Between a shield, the best PDT gear selection and the fact that most physical hits aren't dangerous to begin with, I'd beg to differ.

Burts PDT II is not a big deal, escha/Reisen T4s should be hitting you for 0 and critting for like 10~15 with capped Phalanx.

The Enmitty is way more important for keeping hate off the crazy REMA DDs going ham, but thats not the discussion.

Discussion is with a Excalibur whats my best way to maximize damage.

I was looking at Savage blade, and maybe my DPS Spreadsheet is messed up or something but it seems like on high eva mobs Chant still beats everything else with Flamma+2 gear.

KoR and Savage blade require making almost a full set of the Relic+3 armor to shine, and DPS Spreadsheet still seems to be putting Chant way ahead with easier to get gear, but maybe I am crazy.

Ill put the two side by side with min-maxxed gear and upload, maybe you guys can see if theres outdated info on the sheet in the DPS calculations?

Why would you want Relic+3 on Savage Blade? I was thinking of simply using as much WSD as possible and as much atk/acc as possible.

Of course, if the point is to solo then I think KoR might have and edge do to its aftermath.

But I also think the 30 regain sword would probably do a lot better.

Keep in mind spread sheets are only to give you an idea of what should win, but it is notoriously inaccurate IRL different buffs and debuffs break many sets, and its easy to overlook a consistent high dps ws like savage blade, when spike dmg on spread sheets show cdc winning, it does not accurately show what damage will be when you miss one or more hits, which is out of your control.

edit, i hit tab enter and it submitted the post ><

Or you should stop worrying about doing DPS on paladin because it is overwhelmingly counterproductive. By focusing on damage, you sacrifice the one thing people are actually inviting you for. If you want to do damage, play a DD.

That's not how spreadsheet works, actually. Spreadsheet doesn't show spike damage, instead they show average WS damage in the long run and they do account full buff/unbuffed situations missing 1 or 2 hits if you adjust buffs for it. I believe It is sim that shows spike damage and causing inaccurate results for multi hit WS in very short fights, but spreadsheet doesn't work that way.

There are reports saying it's not accurate and inflats white damage but from my experience, it has always been fairly correct and in line with actual parse results. Most of the time if my spreadsheet says my ws avg 27k with capped attack, then I do avg roughtly 27k with capped attack in game. I rarely experience a situation that my spreadsheet told me I'd avg 27k in X situations but in game I only avg 17k in that specific situation. It just never happen unless it's really short fight that everything ends in 3 ws, or NM has special mechanics.

People that don't rely on spreadsheet to build sets don't use them to begin with, nor understand the ins and outs to make adjustments with them to interpret more accurate results. so they frenquently spread rumors like "it's not accurate" on forums to support their sets being the best. While spreadsheet certainly isn't perfect, I often find many of these "spreadsheets are not accurate" rumors are way too far from truth.


There are no reason not to DD on PLD if you can. From my experience, a DD PLD playing aggressively roughly has same or close DPS to a BRD on parse, and still stays alive and keep hate. more DPS is more DPS.

I mean, so will a parse. Most people look at a single parse or a handful at max. When in reality it'll be something along the lines of this (1000 three minute fights):



I believe this is how it handles TP gain. Since it assumes X amounts of hits before each WS based on an average, you tend to always "over TP," or at least something to that affect. one annoying issue is accounting for maintenance or unique features that would be difficult to replicate in a spreadsheet, like raetic mechanics.