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Treason and Congress letter to Iran - No one undermines the US like the Republicans
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 15:24:24
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party.
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By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:25:39
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
Arrogance is confidence without justification, he's got plenty to gloat about. And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"?
I hope to hell you're not talking about the government shutdowns, the president has no fault in congress's inability to pass a funding bill, period.
Do not call it what it is not... We have not passed a funding bill since before the turn of the century...... Probably an exaggeration but it certainly feels that way.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:26:33
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party.  What are you implying with that picture?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 15:31:01
The 'hate' comes from that man's presidency.
(Even though he had nothing to do with the Tea Party directly.)
Illogical yes, but emotions usually work that way.
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By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:35:42
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
Arrogance is confidence without justification, he's got plenty to gloat about. And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"?
I hope to hell you're not talking about the government shutdowns, the president has no fault in congress's inability to pass a funding bill, period.
Do not call it what it is not... We have not passed a funding bill since before the turn of the century...... Probably an exaggeration but it certainly feels that way.
See this shows the bigger problem. We do not pass budgets because otherwise Congress wouldn't get enough days off. Instead we pass these things called Continuing Resolutions which bundle many budgets together. So for example you get problems where if you do not fund the health care bill then you do not fund 'vital services' either. This is why saying it was a 'xxx led shutdown' is idiotic.. the problem is not anyone 'leading' a 'shutdown' the problem is passing Continuing Resolutions in the first place.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:38:23
The 'hate' comes from that man's presidency.
(Even though he had nothing to do with the Tea Party directly.)
Illogical yes, but emotions usually work that way.
Most of the hate that we in the Tea Party have is directed at this president actually.
just food for thought^^
Because the socialist progressive movement truly began with him.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 15:42:38
And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"? Just a little political play that Obama did during the shutdown in 2013
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party. Didn't say that. Just said that the shutdown was lead by the Tea Party, didn't say it was entirely their fault.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:46:06
And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"? Just a little political play that Obama did during the shutdown in 2013
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party. Didn't say that. Just said that the shutdown was led by the Tea Party, didn't say it was entirely their fault.
How so? Because Ted Cruz did a Filibuster? Because of that it was led by the Tea Party? Boehner is the Speaker of the House, being speaker he is basically all Powerful. I will accept Republican led, I will even accept Tea Party encouraged, But Boehner is not a tea party favorite, he does not need to listen to a word we say.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 15:46:22
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
Arrogance is confidence without justification, he's got plenty to gloat about. And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"?
I hope to hell you're not talking about the government shutdowns, the president has no fault in congress's inability to pass a funding bill, period.
Do not call it what it is not... We have not passed a funding bill since before the turn of the century...... Probably an exaggeration but it certainly feels that way.
I like how you use the phrase "turn of the century" and "funding bill" hyperbolically and accuse me of exaggeration. The turn of the century was 15 years ago, but everyone will think 1900, not 2000. And, we haven't passed a complete budget, but there have been 15 years of funding bills passed.
Just a little political play that Obama did during the shutdown in 2013
Some far right interest group says he didn't have to do it, and you believe it. I don't care if he had to shut down those particular parks or not, there is real harm in shutting down the government over petty partisan squabbles, people tend to care about that harm when it's in their face and not when it's hundreds of miles away.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 15:47:21
The 'hate' comes from that man's presidency.
(Even though he had nothing to do with the Tea Party directly.)
Illogical yes, but emotions usually work that way.
Most of the hate that we in the Tea Party have is directed at this president actually.
just food for thought^^
Because the socialist progressive movement truly began with him. I thought you meant the hate towards the Tea Party.
By Lye 2015-03-12 15:48:14
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
Arrogance is confidence without justification, he's got plenty to gloat about. And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"?
I hope to hell you're not talking about the government shutdowns, the president has no fault in congress's inability to pass a funding bill, period.
I think he's got the word "insolence" confused with "things I don't like" and "things that are collectively believed to be negative"
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By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:51:54
Wait, are you saying that Obama's most recent State of the Union address wasn't insolent towards the Republicans in Congress and the nation at whole, since his party just lost a major national election and lost control of Congress?
Or his most recent actions in his executive orders involving immigration and defense?
Or during the time of the Tea Party led government shutdown, did he not show insolence towards the American people by ordering the federal parks to be locked up, even though there were no guards or personnel associated with those parks?
Every single time Obama doesn't get his way, he throws a tantrum and shows his insolence towards those who "took his toys away," so to speak.
Arrogance is confidence without justification, he's got plenty to gloat about. And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"?
I hope to hell you're not talking about the government shutdowns, the president has no fault in congress's inability to pass a funding bill, period.
Do not call it what it is not... We have not passed a funding bill since before the turn of the century...... Probably an exaggeration but it certainly feels that way.
I like how you use the phrase "turn of the century" and "funding bill" hyperbolically and accuse me of exaggeration. The turn of the century was 15 years ago, but everyone will think 1900, not 2000. And, we haven't passed a complete budget, but there have been 15 years of funding bills passed.
i am referring to the year 2000, i am not trying to be sly.
What I know is if individual funding bills are passed, good. But Continuing resolutions draw more attention. Congress purposely puts things lumped together in these C.R. that they shouldnt. In my above example, why the hell should funding for the ACA be in anyway tied together to funding stuff like parks and recreation?
By Lye 2015-03-12 15:52:30
Part of its not his fault. A common misconception of the word "insolence" is that it's used primarily in cases in which disrespect is expressed toward authority.
Given the Presidents place in what we perceive as "authority," falling victim to this misconception begs the question: to what authority would the president of the United States be disrespectful toward.
In that case, you should be looking at foreign policy not domestic issues.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 15:54:25
Some far right interest group says he didn't have to do it, and you believe it. Obviously you didn't even bother checking the link. The link comes from the House of Representatives, not some 3rd party media source.
I don't care if he had to shut down those particular parks or not, there is real harm in shutting down the government over petty partisan squabbles, people tend to care about that harm when it's in their face and not when it's hundreds of miles away. But it's perfectly ok to shut down federal parks that have no staff associated with them. Just because he didn't get his way.
Out of my 3 examples of insolence, this was the one you nitpicked on, and the one that I basically proved. You aren't attacking the insolence either, which is strange. But we all know how you just attack me without thinking.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:55:15
The 'hate' comes from that man's presidency.
(Even though he had nothing to do with the Tea Party directly.)
Illogical yes, but emotions usually work that way.
Most of the hate that we in the Tea Party have is directed at this president actually.
just food for thought^^
Because the socialist progressive movement truly began with him. I thought you meant the hate towards the Tea Party.
sorry couldn't figure out how to word it correctly. I mean't that we in the Tea Party direct our 'hate' towards that guy.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 15:55:52
And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"? Just a little political play that Obama did during the shutdown in 2013
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party. Didn't say that. Just said that the shutdown was led by the Tea Party, didn't say it was entirely their fault.
How so? Because Ted Cruz did a Filibuster? Because of that it was led by the Tea Party? Boehner is the Speaker of the House, being speaker he is basically all Powerful. I will accept Republican led, I will even accept Tea Party encouraged, But Boehner is not a tea party favorite, he does not need to listen to a word we say. Whatever Ted Cruz did or does, it doesn't affect Boehner. They are in two different parts of Congress.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:56:48
Part of its not his fault. A common misconception of the word "insolence" is that it's used primarily in cases in which disrespect is expressed toward authority.
Given the Presidents place in what we perceive as "authority," falling victim to this misconception begs the question: to what authority would the president of the United States be disrespectful toward.
In that case, you should be looking at foreign policy not domestic issues.
the constitution and the people
By Zackan 2015-03-12 15:57:52
And what are you talking about "ordering federal parks to be locked up"? Just a little political play that Obama did during the shutdown in 2013
I like a lot of what you say sometimes, but why do Tea Party haters need to be such haters? Is it our fault that during the back and forth when Boehner made concessions every time, Reid insisted on all or nothing? I don't get how Reids refusal to move an inch places the blame on the Tea Party. Didn't say that. Just said that the shutdown was led by the Tea Party, didn't say it was entirely their fault.
How so? Because Ted Cruz did a Filibuster? Because of that it was led by the Tea Party? Boehner is the Speaker of the House, being speaker he is basically all Powerful. I will accept Republican led, I will even accept Tea Party encouraged, But Boehner is not a tea party favorite, he does not need to listen to a word we say. Whatever Ted Cruz did or does, it doesn't affect Boehner. They are in two different parts of Congress.
this reinforces what I am saying, sense Ted Cruz has no effect on Boehner... how exactly was the shutdown Tea Party led, since Ted Cruz is the only one you can really point to to make this claim.
By Lye 2015-03-12 16:01:48
Part of its not his fault. A common misconception of the word "insolence" is that it's used primarily in cases in which disrespect is expressed toward authority.
Given the Presidents place in what we perceive as "authority," falling victim to this misconception begs the question: to what authority would the president of the United States be disrespectful toward.
In that case, you should be looking at foreign policy not domestic issues.
the constitution and the people
I don't feel disrespected. Furthermore, does anthropromorhpising what a document feels provide you with some sense of security in your feelings?
By Lye 2015-03-12 16:03:17
If so, if it's any consolation, my stapler shares the same feelings. Perhaps you two can discuss your feelings over coffee.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 16:04:42
sorry couldn't figure out how to word it correctly. I mean't that we in the Tea Party direct our 'hate' towards that guy. Ah ok.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 16:06:01
Part of its not his fault. A common misconception of the word "insolence" is that it's used primarily in cases in which disrespect is expressed toward authority.
Given the Presidents place in what we perceive as "authority," falling victim to this misconception begs the question: to what authority would the president of the United States be disrespectful toward.
In that case, you should be looking at foreign policy not domestic issues.
the constitution and the people
I don't feel disrespected. Furthermore, does anthropromorhpising what a document feels provide you with some sense of security in your feelings?
Found a good reason to use that word, eh? Congratulations. Regardless that sentence doesn't make sense. "Does giving human attributes to the constitution what a document feels provide....
I don't comprehend, sorry
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 16:11:07
You can't disrespect a piece of paper, was the intended response I think.
By Lye 2015-03-12 16:11:16
Tell me what the constitution feels Zackan.
I don't look for reasons to use certain words. Nice try.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 16:16:30
By Lye 2015-03-12 16:17:08
Sorry. I've taken this hilarity to the gym and am on my phone. In all your wisdom, I'm certain you can overlook my poor use of English.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 16:18:58
You can't disrespect a piece of paper, was the intended response I think.
If the constitution is to be treated like a mere piece of paper, then our country should have fallen a long time ago. It is a 'living' document. Best way for me to explain this is to change the subject slightly.
It is like how philosopher's insist there must be a god, God, or some kind of ultimate entity because if not then morality is thrown out the window. If there is no god, there is no good and evil, and your actions have no meaning.
So yes, I do treat the constitution like a living breathing thing. The United States of America IS THE CONSTITUTION. They are one and the same, in seperable.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 16:20:07
Sorry. I've taken this hilarity to the gym and am on my phone. In all your wisdom, I'm certain you can overlook my poor use of English.
i do not have a problem with bad grammar per se, as long as i can work out what you mean, i honestly couldn't figure it out is why I asked for clarification.
By Lye 2015-03-12 16:21:04
Hey! Can you tell me whether or not this dumbbell feels disrespected?
By Zackan 2015-03-12 16:21:52
Hey! Can you tell me whether or not this dumbbell feels disrespected?
Ridiculous - Republicans send Iran a letter that undermines and contradicts their own president. Perhaps the severest blow to American international standing since ever?
EDIT: Below is the NYT's article on the subject. I chose the NYT despite the fact that I think they went soft on the issue to try and be objective.
Quote: WASHINGTON — The fractious debate over a possible nuclear deal with Iran escalated on Monday as 47 Republican senators warned Iran about making an agreement with President Obama, and the White House accused them of undercutting foreign policy.
In a rare direct congressional intervention into diplomatic negotiations, the Republicans signed an open letter addressed to “leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran” declaring that any agreement without legislative approval could be reversed by the next president “with the stroke of a pen.”
Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE
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The letter appeared aimed at unraveling a framework agreement even as negotiators grew close to reaching it. Mr. Obama, working with leaders of five other world powers, argues that the pact would be the best way to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb. But critics from both parties say that such a deal would be a dangerous charade that would leave Iran with the opportunity to eventually build weapons that could be used against Israel or other foes.
Continue reading the main story
Document: Letter From Senate Republicans to the Leaders of Iran
While the possible agreement has drawn bipartisan criticism, the letter, signed only by Republicans, underscored the increasingly party-line flavor of the clash. Just last week, the Republican House speaker, John A. Boehner, gave Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel the platform of a joint meeting of Congress to denounce the developing deal, and Senate Republicans briefly tried to advance legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit it to Congress, alienating Democratic allies.
The letter came as Secretary of State John Kerry’s office announced that he would return to Switzerland on Sunday in hopes of completing the framework agreement before an end-of-March deadline. Under the terms being discussed, Iran would pare back its nuclear program enough so that it would be unable to produce enough fuel for a bomb in less than a year if it tried to break out of the agreement. The pact would last at least 10 years; in exchange the world powers would lift sanctions.
Whether the Republican letter might undercut Iran’s willingness to strike a deal was not clear. Iran reacted with scorn. “In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy,” Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iran’s foreign minister, said in a statement. “It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history.”
A senior American official said the letter probably would not stop an agreement from being reached, but could make it harder to blame Iran if the talks fail. “The problem is if there is not an agreement, the perception of who is at fault is critically important to our ability to maintain pressure, and this type of thing would likely be used by the Iranians in that scenario,” said the official, who spoke anonymously to discuss the negotiations.
The White House and congressional Democrats expressed outrage, calling the letter an unprecedented violation of the tradition of leaving politics at the water’s edge. Republicans said that by styling it as an “open letter,” it was akin to a statement, not an overt intervention in the talks.
“It’s somewhat ironic to see some members of Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran,” Mr. Obama told reporters. “It’s an unusual coalition.”
Other Democrats were sharper. Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, called it “just the latest in an ongoing strategy, a partisan strategy, to undermine the president’s ability to conduct foreign policy.” Senator Harry M. Reid of Nevada, the Democratic minority leader, said the “Republicans are undermining our commander in chief while empowering the ayatollahs.”
Continue reading the main story
GRAPHIC
The Nuclear Talks With Iran, Explained
What the United States and Iran want out of discussions over Iran’s nuclear development.
OPEN GRAPHIC
The letter, drafted by Senator Tom Cotton, a freshman from Arkansas, and signed by all but seven members of the Senate Republican majority, warned Iran that a deal with Mr. Obama might not stick. “The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen, and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time,” said the letter, whose existence was reported earlier by Bloomberg News.
Mr. Cotton said he drafted the letter because Iran’s leaders might not understand America’s constitutional system. He also said the terms of the emerging deal were dangerous because they would not be permanent and would leave Iran with nuclear infrastructure. He noted that four Republican senators who may run for president signed his letter and added that he tried without success to get Democrats to sign.
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RECENT COMMENTS
Eugene Gorrin 27 minutes ago
Disgraceful.The Republican/Tea Party has made no secret of its desire to sabotage negotiations over Iran's nuclear capabilities. That was...
Sonny Pitchumani 28 minutes ago
As usual, many liberal commenters in this forum are happy to throw around the word TREASON and to suggest that the Senators who sent the...
horatio fisk 28 minutes ago
It is highly amusing that the GOP does not realize that no one in this country takes them seriously so why should anyone in Iran. Well you...
SEE ALL COMMENTS
“The only thing unprecedented is an American president negotiating a nuclear deal with the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism without submitting it to Congress,” he said on CNN.
The letter revived an old debate about what role Congress should have in diplomacy.
Jim Wright, the Democratic House speaker during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, was accused of interfering when he met with opposing leaders in Nicaragua’s contra war. Three House Democrats went to Iraq in 2002 before President George W. Bush’s invasion to try to head off war. And Nancy Pelosi, the House Democratic leader, went to Syria in 2007 to meet with President Bashar al-Assad against the wishes of the Bush administration, which was trying to isolate him.
An agreement with Iran would not require immediate congressional action because Mr. Obama has the power to lift sanctions he imposed under his executive authority and to suspend others imposed by Congress. But permanently lifting those imposed by Congress, as Iran has sought, would eventually require a vote.
Rather than wait, Republicans, joined by several Democrats, drafted legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit the agreement to Congress. But when Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican majority leader, moved to advance that legislation for a vote, Democrats who support it balked at taking action before the talks with Iran concluded. Mr. McConnell backed off, but the bill may be revived if a deal is reached.
Among the Republicans who declined to sign Mr. Cotton’s letter was Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the Foreign Relations Committee chairman, who has been working with Democrats on Iran legislation. “We’ve got a bipartisan effort that’s underway that has a chance of being successful, and while I understand all kinds of people want to weigh in,” he said, he concluded that it would not “be helpful in that effort for me to be involved in it.”
Some Democrats, like Representative Brad Sherman of California, said the letter and other moves risked making it a party-line issue, in which case it would be impossible to muster a two-thirds vote to override a presidential veto. “The number of Democrats not willing to follow the president’s lead is reduced when it becomes a personal or political issue,” he said.
Correction: March 9, 2015
A previous version of this article misstated the given name of the senator who drafted the letter from American lawmakers to Iranian leaders. He is Tom Cotton, not Tim Cotton. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-faults-gop-senators-letter-to-irans-leaders.html?_r=0
The Republicans first undermine their democratically elected president AND Nation by inviting a foreign leader to address them in a televised event, effectively turning the American people's house of representatives into a political brothel.
They then openly contradict the commander in chief of the nation and more or less say the US presidency is a lame duck office not worthy of taking seriously.
At best, the American political system is the greatest threat to American foreign policy.
At worst, America is so deeply entrenched in racism - made apparent by how the election of a black american has polarized the country's population - that its foreign policy be damned.
Republicans might as well have just said "Burn this house down".
I can't wait to see how the GOP goons on this forum try to deflect from the issue and/or demonstrate just how retarded their demographic is.
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