Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

Glad to hear you are doing a video guide Rua, but just my two cents on what you said:

Remarkably sturdy would be a misnomer.
Critical defense bonus II is -8% crits, and there is no defense bonus outside of the 20% from the wyvern. Essentially you get a free defender-lite (35%) without the attack penalty. I mean, I would argue MNK would be comparatively sturdy to DRG with the HP, Mantra for the PT, strong magic evasion Su3 armor (DRG and 2Hs in general get junk for magic evasion on gear), etc. Obviously it is no BLU or RUN when discussing being sturdy or not.
Perhaps it is just that Last Resort and Berserk make jobs less sturdy, but that doesn't mean DRG is sturdy because others aren't.

Jump is nice while the wyvern is alive (or you are just weakened) without capping haste/slowed, and boosting the last step of your multi-SC for extra damage or for just ensuring you get the last step off if you are underbuffed/miss. However, in a serious fight with full buffs the gains for it can be close enough to nonexistent.
Super/High Jump would be the very important jumps, and obviously not because of any DPS. Those being the two of the best reasons I find to be a DRG honestly. Nothing beats a nasty move or just losing hate when it is dangerous to have with Super Jump.
---
This all lends to why DRG is "still somewhat overlooked" for events.
DRG's uses land in being niche or simply "a viable job" against a few NMs and for midbuff situations, mostly due to the JA haste from the wyvern and then the other associated bonuses. It is in midbuffs situations that it will likely beat most or all of the other 2H jobs.
Situations where you are either not capping or just capping delay with solely haste 2 from a trust or something, and where players aren't capping attack. I mean, maybe you could argue for an Apoc DRK here for fun or just if last resort will last the fight in general, drain 3 and dreadspikes with better attack is a hell of a drug, but lets move along.

Angon is more important for solo play than actual group play IMO; as Angon is more often useless in a fight with real buffs/debuffs before even getting into the fact it competes against other defense down debuffs.
Healing Breath is more often than not useless too. Sure it may save someone, whoopty-doo, but a LOT can happen in 60 seconds. Which makes it pretty worthless as you end up wanting to save it for a significant moment, but then the WHM cures as you hit it and- *fart noise* come back in 60 seconds.
DRG doesn't corner the market on SCing, and leg sweep is merely a novelty item. Sure, someone may use DRG in their low-man group for an efficient SC partner with another DD, but this would be the same as arguing for taking a RDM to such a setup for inundation, etc.
You'd be building around the job as the reason for it's existence in such a case. Not because nothing else SCs, I mean take a SAM or something else with SC bonus/a strong closer for your sequence.

So yeah, DRG is overlooked because it isn't WAR, DRK, SAM, or even THF for piercing mobs. I generally wouldn't ever want a great DRG over a great RUN/SAM/DRK/WAR to DD outside of maybe Teles or something, and I am the DRG in this case. Once again though, why take a DRG over a THF for Teles, THF gets Larceny which is super useful compared to what DRG offers. It wouldn't surprise me to see Rudras averaging better than Stardiver too with Aeneas.

So, I use DRG because I can or because I am messing around. Sure, I can completely drop Strophadia in an Umbra sequence or some easy UNMs, but that doesn't translate to more than "niche" use. Healing breath from /mage was once really cool, but now it would be largely pointless.
Ever take DRG to a divergence boss? Wyvern doesn't enjoy it, and then it sends DRG to the bottom of the pile without it. Even the idea of popping Dawn Mulsums would be a "why stop my DPS, I could go another job". Call wyvern needs to be a 10 minute ability and not 20. Which wouldn't even fix the main issue with the job in that SE made a weaker DD that they tried to cover up by making niche later.

Accuracy bonus largely shouldn't come into play for groups as proper buffs/debuffs are really easy for all DDs to cap. There isn't enough in the way of solid evasion postings outside of T4s in Reisenjima to map out your sets and meticulously use that bonus to eek out another percent or two of DPS on the other end of that. Even then, why bother?

DRG isn't BLU for low end and it isn't all the better DDs or half-witted SMNs for the high end.
Mid-tier situations are sort of like central Jersey. As a region you know it exists, but it doesn't really exist, and doesn't matter unless you say you are from/in it.
---
At any rate, the point of discussing jump before digressing all over the place was that DRG doesn't get some higher degree of multiattack over other 2H jobs, and certainly not over WAR or RUN.
Considering it often shares the same gear as those jobs. In fact DRG has it ''worse'' in the gear department than these jobs considering the best options for hands are situationally sulevia +2 or ACROFUCKINGGAUNTLETSin2018.
The only difference in it's multiattack is simply a 15% DA from the wyvern after reaching 1200 job points. Neither a "high-degree" nor a game changer in the multiattack department.

TL;DR:
DRG is something to play because you want to and not because it is "good". Which is why it has always been and will always be rejected and unpopular.
Any DD that is well geared in FFXI is viable. It just doesn't mean people will care about it though. DRG is more of a hobby than a practicality, and people have almost no real reasons to invite or use one other than "my DRG is better geared than their <insert stronger job here>" or "I leik DRG".

Personally, I just leikz da DRGz.

He needs to be out in order to use surge. But yeah, I wouldn't even bother with either SP ability unless you know you won't be afflicted with stun, paralyze, etc.

The most important aspect of the job to tell new players, as you probably suspected, is keeping your wyvern alive. This may not seem like a difficult task, but it can happen in endgame content if you're not careful and you will suffer more than just in your DPS when it happens. 5/5 Spirit Link and using it at the start of the fight is indeed mandatory; I wouldn't recommend hitting off Steady Wing right away, though. It's basically an emergency button that gives a Stoneskin effect to your wyvern. It lasts for 3 minutes or until that amount of damage is absorbed--base potency is x1.3 the wyvern's maximum HP and gets reduced by an amount equal to his current HP. Putting on Max HP gear for your wyvern before hitting this button will of course widen the gap between max and current HP, increasing its potency, but letting your wyvern take damage before hitting it will increase it further, and you can always follow up with a Spirit link so he's more than ready for the next big hit.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Steady_Wing

If you're fighting something that's banging out pretty consistent and nasty AoE's, however, all you can really do beyond that is to put on pet DT gear (you only need -10, wyverns natively have -40 DT) and the empy head piece, and pray. Your DPS won't drop as much as being without a wyvern, and in these kinds of situations you'll probably want to be in your DT gear anyway as your DPS, just like any other DD, is zero when you're dead.

I know people say only use Spirit/Soul Jump when your wyvern is out, and certainly Spirit Jump is better to use over regular Jump since at this point in the game jumps primarily serve as gaining TP and following up with a weaponskill.

However, High Jump still serves a purpose even with the wyvern out, and that purpose is hate control. I typically only use Soul Jump in situations where I know the tank can hold hate pretty well, since my TP gain from regular white damage in most situations is satisfactory; if, however, your tank is struggling to hold hate or are fighting something with a hate reset, then High Jump is a neat trick to have in your back pocket. The base enmity loss is -50%, and can go as high as -79% with the relic +3 legs. Super Jump sheds effectively all enmity, of course, but -79% or even -50% of your hate might be just what you need to turn the mob's attention back to your tank without taking as much of a dip in your DPS if you were to use Super Jump. Plus, you can save Super Jump in case something goes drastically south or if you anticipate dodging a deadly move entirely.

It is a fun job, especially with your friends and people who know your capabilities. I sport the Gungnir, which fits well in situations where accuracy is a struggle. With it, you will also always maintain at least -12.5% defense down on the mob at all times as the proc rate is pretty high. Don't expect the Shock Spikes aftermath to proc stun on the enemy that often if you're soloing though, if at all (another opportunity wasted by SE imo). As others have said, you will be disappointed if your sole expectation is to put out numbers like a WAR or DRK when you join the ranks of dragoons. If you're expecting low- to mid-buff scenarios, however, the dragoon might pull ahead while helping the party with precious defense down and possible stun locks.

Yeah, that was supposed to say almost, not already... I was probably thinking the wyvern would already be dead by the time you needed spirit surge and derped my typing.

Pet DT cap is 87.5% So adding 10% isn't gonna cap them.

But seriously, if you have to TP in wyvern DT gear to keep the flying rat up... go on another job. (swapping in a mixed palyer/pet DT set just for big AoE's though. That might get you better mileage. Still a pain in the *** though)

Cheers for the input everyone.

This is a fair point but it's something I've really noticed when solo especially. I guess I should clarify that DRG is relatively sturdy, rather than remarkably, compared to most two-handed DPS jobs and that High/Super Jump can really save it's bacon.

The Spirit Link the Wyvern gets is also pretty decent, and then there's Dawn Mulsums. Still, I remember SE saying back in like 2012 or so that they'd let us Merit Call Wyvern timers one day.

IMO I still think the issue isn't Wyvern survivability, but DRG survivability. Because, if the Dragoon dies, the Wyvern dies regardless of Call Wyvern's current recast. Sometimes early on in a run you die for stupid reasons like an instant Death/Doom/Meteor/Comet/etc. I never found my Wyvern dying to straight up damage during Delve days, but instead found that I would die, which caused me to lose the wyvern and have to wait.

That's really another reason why drg is just at a pure disadvantage without ever considering the damage aspect. It constantly has to be cognizant of it's wyvern, and obviously himself. Call wyvern is just too precious to use it and potentially waste, so you have to be extra careful to not die or lose your pet or you become fairly useless. The job depends so heavily on the concept of their pet being alive. I've had to run out of rAnge periodically when aoe damage threatens me or my pet. It's not that I didn't trust the mage to keep us healed or my dt set. it's just the bigger disadvantage is possibly dying and being a brick for the remainder of the event. That's a hard sell for most people to bring you along

Asterisk in that I haven't been playing much and haven't done any Dynamis.

But in all the Omen and Aeonic stuff I have done, Lady dying is a non issue. Spirit Link is a full heal on a 90 second timer and Steady Wing is very potent. I agree with Ophannus in that it's more annoying we die and then can't summon them. But our wyvern dying on it's own is basically a non issue.

DRG is sturdy for a DPS. We run with a full time berserk and defender which don't cancel each other out. Between that, Angon, and our ability to shed hate, we probably play more effectively with trusts than any DPS. May wanna toss that in the guide for anyone interested in that niche.

They should just do it D.Va style. You die, you raise with wyvern timer at 0.

Dragon Spirit. MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Unless the wyvern is the one reraising... meh. Or it's a no weakness RR, with a refreshed call wyvern recast.... ugh.

And frankly, if we're going to add something from Tactics.. can I have some of the Sword skills for PLD? Lightning stab, anyone? Would that convert to XI as a Thunder elemental AoE sword WS? I'll take it. Also Dark Knight sword skills from War of the lions.. Yes!

Hmmm. Would be kinda neat if polearms actually had a longer melee range than other weapons. Doubt it would actually matte much, but interesting. Anyway, I'm apparently having far too much fun thinking of how to convert FFT stuff to FFXI. <,<

Or, when you home point timer goes to 0 and when you accept raise it matches weakness to prevent whatever silly thoughts they have about abusing it. Its part of the job, it shouldnt be longer than weakness is.

I would also like to point out, again to consider for the guide.

In a 2-3 min high level fight, a DRG generally does not out DPS a near perfect WAR or SAM. But, having done many fights side by side with them - I don't think the difference is nearly as large as people think. They aren't in another stratosphere. It's not even greater than the possible random variance as I have beaten those players on those jobs.

But this game is really old and we are over-leveled for the content. There literally isn't anything in the game that can be mele'd with 1-3 mele, and a DRG can't be one of those 3 and not do more than enough DPS to do it's part to kill the mob in what is considered an acceptable amount of time. You got someone who has it pimped and they wannna play it - let them. You will be fine.

Kinda wish polearms could hit airborne enemies.

Interesting idea. Seeing as how DRGs are strong vs Wyrms and other dragons, that would be a fitting change. Not sure there are too many Flying dragons (Ouryu, Naga Raja?) still around, but it does make sense.

Fun fact: Sonic Thrust will hit a flying enemy if you use it on a different mob. I still hit Naga Raja using her lamia adds. :D

Polearms have traditionally had advantages vs flying foes in FF games. And they still do to an extent in XI, in the sense that most birds, etc are piercing weak. But then we have the bit where we can't even hit anything that's actually considered 'flying.'

But while I like the idea, I feel that it's too niche. Like every situation where there might be a specific need for a DRG. If a change was going to be made, I'd like it to be something that makes DRG more useful in a wider range of situations.

That is a fascinating tidbit. I had no idea. Thanks.

My idea back in idk 2011-2012 on the OF was to allow Spirit Surge to have a dual effect depending on whether or not your Wyvern was alive.


1) If your Wyvern was present->Normal Spirit Surge.

2) If your Call Wyvern is on recast and your Wyvern is dead, then Spirit Surge summons your Wyvern (and resets Call Wyvern recast too!) and gives your Wyvern 30 second duration of "Rouse Wyvern". The Dragoon would not receive any personal buffs.


For those who are unaware, Rouse Wyvern was DRG's original SP2 on the test servers about a year before the new SP2s were rolled out. Rouse Wyvern was an SP ability that buffed the Wyvern, granting them 30 seconds of complete damage immunity, immunity to status ailments, significantly enhanced their damage, attack speed, and breath potency dramatically.

So with no Wyvern, Spirit Surge would call a wyvern in a buffed state (as well as making it unkillable for the first 30 seconds) AND restore your CW timer so you have that in your pocket too.
In this case, you bestow your power to the Wyvern rather than the Wyvern bestowing its power to you. It fits with the whole DRG spirit lore thing.


Also tidbit: Jumps hit flying enemies. Back in the day I used to sub THF and stack on a ton of VIT/STR/Attack gear and SA+Jump Wyrms when they flew since they can't flail in the air anyway. It wasn't much but it was a decent 700-800 damage or so. I remember posting on the OF asking if they could make Jump from DRG mains have a chance to inflict a "Mistmelt" effect on flying Wyrms, given how DRGs in FFXI lore are Dragon Slayers and it would give DRG a niche against Wyrms back in CoP days. This was mainly because our damage was trash against Wyrm HNMs compared to SAM/WAR/DRKs and pretty sure some Wyrms have SDT against piercing damage...or maybe just Hydra..either way I remember Wheeling Thrust doing ~400-600 damage while other DPS could do 1400-1700+)

Frankly I'd say just scrap spirit surge entirely and think of something that's actually useful instead of giving us a ton of tiny near useless enhancements.

I mean, spirit surge does a ton of stuff. wiki page is looong. But the actual impact on performance? The biggest contributor now days is the JP that added wep dmg. And it's still barely a net dps positive(and sometimes it isn't even a positive)

I mean. Think Mighty Strikes. It does one thing. You crit. But that one thing Matters. It's a big deal. And spirit surge.. isn't. Hell, since the wyvern enhancements, and spirit/soul jump, Spirit surge is often detrimental to overall DPS.

Neat ideas and all, SE, but it's a failure. Scrap it and do something that's actually useful.

Oh and change fly high back to the test server version while you're at it(1 minute of 0 recast jumps)

This is what grinds my gears when discussing on the OF. Basically SE's narrative from 2003-2014 was basically that SE argued that DRG+Wyvern should outdamage most other DPS and to balance this, the Wyvern has a long recast and is killable. My argument was that even if DRG+Wyvern was stronger than other DPS jobs (which it wasn't) when the Wyvern dies, DRG has up to 20 minutes of being weaker than every other DPS job because the Wyvern is so integral. So while SAM dies and has 3-5min of weakness before returning to full power, DRG even when recovering from Weakness is still at a heavy disadvantage for up to 20 min. But even still--WITH the Wyvern we STILL weren't stronger than other DPS. Finally halfway through SoA, SE gave us a huge buff with the Wyvern but it was far too late and the game is already dying. My argument always was that 1) DRG+Wyvern was still weaker than other jobs in most content, and 2) we are even at a greater disadvantage when we die (mostly due to no fault of our own...like instant death spells, bad healers or tanks etc). I still can't believe looking back that SE didn't see how bad DRG's position was and that even with our Wyvern there was no content in which DRG was at the top of the DPS hierarchy to justify making our pet so squishy. It was wall-to-wall bad until we got Wyvern parameter boosts+job points+20% attack/def/10% DA/Job Haste. All of which came FAR too late.

Did you see my post on BG back in the day about Fly High on the test server? I had a screen shot of murdering that flying wyrm NM in abyssea Tahrongi by jump spamming it to death. I wonder if I can find that...

Having Jumps ground flying foes would be cool. Although again super niche.

Does Spirit Surge buff WD? I was one of the first few people to test it the day it came out and I coulda sworn it added WD, though my initial assumption was that it added Wyvern's WD to our own, which proved to be false. I just then assumed the WD came from the STR bonus. Still, SS was very good when it came out because this was back at 75 when we came nowhere close to the levels of haste we have now and a skilled DRG could WS, disengage before breath went out, Spirit Surge and Sekkanoki (absorbing Wyvern's 300% TP) and WS again, and then close light with the third WS. It felt *** good when it went off, it was like a mini Meikyo. Wasn't useful for HNMs but it was all-purpose. Then again, it was garbage for low-mid levels because you couldn't do crap with it before you had other jumps learned

Fly High on the test server, if I remember correctly, was like a 5s recast on Jumps. ***was nuts with Ryuno.

It does with JP.

It was 0 sec recast on teh test server. And I found that post of mine where I jumped that Wyrm NM to death.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=5469683&viewfull=1#post5469683
I also posted the logs in the linked post, and if you look at the timestamps I was pumping out a jump nearly every second.

Crazy. Current Fly High is so meh.

That's great to have that old SS! Fun stuff.

The Fly High jump timers the way they are now are great for Jump >>> WS >>> Jump >>> WS >>> repeat. However, we can do that with proper haste anyways...

I've been wanting to have a discussion with someone about Drg's current niche and I guess I'll throw this out here. I find that my small group of 6-7 often use DRG (me) as a main DD with full buff support on things. (We haven't done it for HELMS though as we've only been running with 6-7ish annnd why try if you can Smn burn amirite?) Drg's strength does not come from mindlessly spamming the WS button every time you hit 1K TP. It will never live up to War/Drk/Sam doing this. (As most of you know, Stardiver >>> Sonic Thrust >>> Stardiver >>> Stardiver - absolutely crushes things.) Has anyone really tried a buffed Drg and then have another party of nukers that are able to just constantly land large nukes on those SCs? (hi2u Blm AF body) Although, this then requires a set of buffers for the Drg Tank party and a different set for the nuking party.

I find the problem with DRG more lies in the tough ***in the game having access to combinations of Amnesia, Paralyze, Stun and Terror or just hitting hard AF. Which makes the meta obviously use RNGs, SMNs or fully buffed Melee zerg to avoid as many nasty TP moves and kill it as quickly as possible. The current end game just doesn't support anything other than zerging when it comes to efficiently killing things. Rightfully so. Noone wants to waste time. Let's get our kills and move on.

I guess my ultimate question for discussion is... Is there even anything difficult that this strat might be efficient for?

Meh can't comment....I haven't played since Vagary came out. The new content since then seem pretty weird.

drg is quite a bit behind.

using the same setup for both: apex_bats_136, dia 2, honor, victory, blade madrigal, minuet 5, frailty, haste 1, magma steak, and boost str, chaos/sam (both get SAM job bonus):




NQ halberd, didn't really optimize sets either, and I don't think I need to post a GK comparison. SAM can already almost do polearm better, wouldn't be surprised if WAR could too. Sure you could say DRG does polearm SCs better, but both SAM and WAR have stronger weapons than polearm they could use in those situations.

Well, it's not like I didn't know we were behind SAM, but that fact that they're nearly beating us at our own weapon using un-optimized sets.... That's nice and depressing. I dislike thinking about how much higher they're DPS must be with a GK.

Do something SE! -.-