Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

Some of these points don't apply to a gungnir wielder, but I don't want it to be thought that all DRG empy is useless in general.

Peltast's+1(empy) body is still best in slot Ryu AM3 up TP. And it's a good body even for non mythic TP. The exact break points depend on your current TP set and buffs, but.. in the comparison I did it took valorous body at least 4% DA or 7 STP to beat peltast+1. And it's straight up better than Flamma +1. So if he's got the 109 already, taking it to 119 would be a decent upgrade til he can get valorous and get a decent Augment on it. Would go to Flamma+1 if having acc issues though.

It's also Spirit/Soul jump crack. For non Mythic AM3, STP+8 Valorous mail will edge it out slightly for both spirit/soul. But for AM3 up Peltast's still tops.

Also, Empy feet. Still an amazing Spirit jump piece. For AM3 Ryu they can be edged out but STP+8 Valorous, but for non AM3 they're best in slot.

Empy legs are still hands down the best Drakes legs. That's a bit niche cause Drakes doesn't see as much use now. But any Ryu wielder will use it to put AM3 up, may as well do more dmg with it. Drakes also has a place in multi-step Light/Radiance SC.

It sucks that DRG first decent DD JSE came so late.(orignial AF, tehn relic was crap DD) No doubt we'll get Relic upgrades before empy. So Peltast's +3 is far off..

I am praying when they get to it, that that add some multiattack to the Empy body +3. So much potential with updated stats and the massive STP it already has. And Omen gears make hitting 5 hit builds a bit annoying right now.

Totally forgot about the Empy pants. Even as a Gungnir wielder I still us Drakesbane so yep. I dunno about the boots though, I have a hard time justifying them over even Flamma+1 for any jump that's not with Mythic AM3 up.

Actually, empy feet are less impressive on AM3 up jumps. This is because the Spirit jump TP bonus only applies to the first hit. Extra hits don't get the TP bonus. This is why high STP pieces like STP+8 aug'd V feet can take the lead with AM3 up, as the STP applies to extra attacks.

However for Non AM3 jump, Empy feet will hands down win. They easily beat flamma+1, and DA+ valorous feet. And are still slightly ahead of STP+8 Valorous feet.

So there's no need to justify anything, they're just plain better. About the only thing that would dethrone them would be when you need acc desperately. But... I'd look for acc on other slots first.

And yeah.. While I love Utu and Niqmaddu... all my build's dropped 11 STP. Makes things a bit harder STP-wise.

what do you guys think would be better, keeping peltast's plack +1 for the +12 STP or switching to Emicho Haubert +1 for +5% DA, would actually be +7% because i'd be using 3 Emicho +1 pieces so that would give me another 2% on the set bonus. Not counting stats from bodies my current STP is 64~69 and i have 29% DA and 2% TA. I use Trishula pretty much full time so i wouldnt have the AM3 from ryu where im sure STP would be the better option.

Yeah, Emicho+1 is going to be the better option there.

Fixed the Breath JP thing, pleased to see no other issues coming up

Just got my Relic After Glow and gotta say... Im very damn please! >:D it rocks!

Does anyone have access to edit this guide? It's one of the more dated ones on the site. There is a lot of good info in the thread, but I can see it being a bit of a bear for people to look thru for info. I know we often get a lot of the same questions asked every few pages.

can try to message http://www.ffxiah.com/user/SKudo or http://www.ffxiah.com/user/Bleusummers on ah or thier other linked accounts.

to be added or pull the information,

you can always go to http://www.ffxiah.com/node/182 copy and paste

assuming they have been long gone and dont answer with in a reasonable time frame. Although all the formatting tags would be nice to have. (you can just hit edit or quote on the main post) too.

or just simply write your own.

I'd start over just to have a different thread title

Looking forward to that new guide :D

DRG Spreadsheet Update!
Download it here!
(remember, the Download button is in the top-right corner, click on the ellipsis [...] for a little menu)

ADDED: Sulevia's +2 Armor set and Sulevia's Ring.


Here's what they look like in case you missed it:

I'm not sure it would have been possible to add a more useless set bonus...

But thanks for the spreadsheet update!

I'm a bit confused on why you would use 3 Emicho +1 pieces? I'd think Valorous Mail is the superior choice all around (augment depending of course). I would say switching to Val. Mail and dropping some sTP elsewhere for more OAT would be a reasonable solution. I can't ever imagine using 2/5 Emicho +1, let alone 3/5. I use and love hands +1 but, and maybe I'm missing something, I don't really see any benefit to the other pieces besides some edge cases for body.

With my base ACC set, 4-hit, pre-Trish (i.e. using Lembig) I am at 1.36 attacks per round to your 1.32 attacks per round (and I didn't actually count Lembig's TA because I forgot). That number should only go up with Trish as you can switch out some of the sTP. I'm curious about your set, maybe you can post it?

1.36 attacks per round is too low for a viable 4 hit build. Most 5 hit build are around 1.75 /SAM. Well, perhaps viable is the wrong word - you can still go make mobs die. But it's a performance decrease compared to what you could easily achieve with a 5 hit build.

4/1.75 = 2.285 attack rounds per weaponskill
3/1.36 = 2.206 attack rounds per weaponskill

So you will get off 3.5% more weaponskills. But, with so many less attacks per round, you do less mele damage. In this case, it's about a 29% difference. And giving up 29% mele damage to do 3.5% more weaponskill damage is a bum deal.

I didn't include gifts/wyvern at all in any calculations I did. Just gear only. If you are using gifts in your calculation for 5-hit then I can adjust my numbers correspondingly.

3/1.4833 -> 2.0225 attack rounds per weaponskill ~13% more WS. And again, this is pre-Trish. With Trish the number should be higher, which is why I said I was confused at their set.

Edit: Actually, I'll post what it should be (assuming my gear) using Trish:

3/1.5651 -> 1.9168 attacks / round -> 19% more WS than the 5-hit you noted.

Sulevia +2 is really depressing, still good by all means, but i will likely do 2x Meghanada and full Inyanga before my DRG sees any of it.

It's also a little more complicated than that if you're just going at 1K due to multi attack reducing hits to 1K and additional hits on your last accounting for more TP.

Most definitely. That is what the spreadsheet is for, though. These are just quick back of the napkin (read: back of the matlab) calculations though for quick intuition.

It should be noted that I'm not saying any one is outright better than the other, I am genuinely curious about the set that started this (and other high DA lower sTP sets) and how they compare to more standard 4-hits.

Just to be clear - I was not insinuating anything about any build, other that 1.36 attacks per round was not enough to justify a 4hit. Also agreed on the fact it was easy math for an estimation, and is more complicated per Austar's comment which is right on.

I was always under the impression that for a 4hit to be viable, it needed Trish or Ryu - as they both keep the OAT up on a 4hit in their differing ways. But I don't have the math to back it up. Just recollections of randomly playing with spreadsheets and remembering generalizations.

While Trish/Ryu will definitely be better with the 4-hit than something that isn't a Trish/Ryu, but I'm not sure I agree that it isn't viable (open to being convinced otherwise).

Going to just rip my base set from lua and post it below. It is 1234 ACC with no buffs of any kind, +68 sTP from gear, 3% QA, 7% TA, 14% DA. With Trish the 14% DA should go to 24%, and I'm sure there are some improvements to be made, but this comes in at 1.46 attack rounds per WS (before counting gifts). May be on the low side, idk.

So here is what I am rocking in my 5hit: Fu is a stingy *** so I am still N.ring less. But my plan is to move rings to NRing/Hetaroi and then Swap in a STP Val Body to makeup the lost STP.

So I think the question is, would I be improved as a 4hit build? I had always assumed no, but if it will, I would be happy to change.

Edit: no idea why I am asking, I will mess w the spreadsheet and see what I can come up with.

I often don't have the time (or attention span) to sit down in front of the spreadsheet so I'd be curious to know what the answer is.

I should be better about it, but it is a fairly tedious process.

This is what I use, and it gets me very good results.

ItemSet 344903

Valorous Mask, Hose and Mail have high Accuracy and Store TP. Mask has +8 Store TP, Hose has +5 Store TP and the Mail has +5 Store TP. Brigantia's Mantle has DEX/Acc/Att/DA.

+74 TP when /SAM.

Hey Ruamoko. I think everyone agrees 4hit work with mythic and trish. Trish specifically because its 10 stp frees up gear slots for oat, and because the weapon bonus granting stardivers a hefty bonus weighs the parsing more towards weaponskill damge than any other weapon.

I think what we are openly wondering is if 4hit build for any other weapons would make sense compated to a max oat 5 hit build.

I am at work now but plan on playing with the spreadsheet tonight to see what i can come up with to provide any insight.

Also nice build man.

OK, so I have been playing with the new spreadsheet for about an hour. A few asterisks here: there are tons of variables in this spreadsheet, and I tried to make it as simple as possible. The example uses GEO Frailty and Haste buffs and haste spell buffs, along with Angon and Dia in an Apex bat (136). And then Bard stuff just to ensure Acc/Att/Haste are capped in both cases. /SAM sub with Hasso, and most other buffs turned off. Stardiver spam. I am using Gungnir with AM up, although I also put in a Rhomphaia to check a more normal DRG weapon. For Store TP - my Geirskorgul returns 197, and this is with sacrificing a tad of damage for extra STP in it to reduce STP needed in my TP builds. For my current 5 hit, I need 47(32) STP minimum and the 4 hit would need 96 (81 minimum). I could not get to 81 without swapping Bloodrain for Utu, and this uses a lot of perfect Valorous Augs and +1 Emicho Hands. I set the Jump sets in both cases to match the TP sets.

5 hit Gungnir: 3922.882
4 hit Gungnir: 3705.260

5 hit Rhomphaia: 3462.65
4 hit Rhomphaia: 3261.787

The Rhomphaia build spread is a tad higher, probably because the 5% DA AM on the Gungnir has slightly more value for a 4hit build.

I have the spreadsheet saved. If anyone wants to check my work, see how more changes would impact things...whatever...happy to oblige.

One thing bothering me a bit, on the Equipment page it lists the 5 hit as 3.12 Rounds/WS. And the 4 hit as 2.93. Both of those numbers seem too high for the builds.

Edit: figured it out, over TP rounds at .5. If I set that to 0, it drops them to what one would expect (2.62 and 2.43, respectively), while increasing DPS pretty evenly across the board.

Plugged Resolution and Torcleaver stats into the spreadsheet for shits and giggles. Proceeded to give myself a sad at how much better they have to potential to be.

On another note, it's kinda interesting how relatively good Gungnir gets the better your gear and buffs are. Pales compared to Rhongo, but edges out Trishula eventually. Somehow.

It's the 1 base damage, obviously.

Whats sad is how broken Resolution and Torcleaver are compared to idk..... every WS in the game. If Stardiver and Camlann's scaled like them we'd give WAR/DRK a run for their money.

Also I've never been able to get Rhon to parse as well as Trish, despite what the spreadsheet says.