Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

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Bushido - The Way of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0
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 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-30 00:07:18
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Whether it's "worth it" is up to you I suppose, the difference isn't very significant between the two. Like I stated in the first post, overall you'd get more out of Bloodrain if attack capped and using Fudo, otherwise Duplus if sticking to Shoha. In general, though, I like using Bloodrain since the accuracy is there also if I happen to need it.
 Cerberus.Fthis
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By Cerberus.Fthis 2014-01-30 00:27:33
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Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Whether it's "worth it" is up to you I suppose, the difference isn't very significant between the two. Like I stated in the first post, overall you'd get more out of Bloodrain if attack capped and using Fudo, otherwise Duplus if sticking to Shoha. In general, though, I like using Bloodrain since the accuracy is there also if I happen to need it.

I do agree with you.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2014-01-30 02:29:22
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Cerberus.Fthis said: »
yeah i mainly use Shoha.


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 Cerberus.Fthis
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By Cerberus.Fthis 2014-01-30 03:09:05
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lol what?
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-01-30 06:52:50
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I would imagine Tachi:Fudo, under the right circumstances, is an extremely powerful weaponskill with 119 Kogarasumaru.

Analyzing what you have been saying suggests you use Tachi:Shoha in any given sitaution, oblivious to the fact that in certain situations, Tachi:Fudo decimates Tachi:Shoha.

I believe this is what prompt the use of Ejiin's jpeg image (which pretty much suggests wtf are you doing.)
 Cerberus.Fthis
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By Cerberus.Fthis 2014-01-30 14:27:12
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i use both, always depends what im doing.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-31 01:46:10
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Following up on Tachi: Ageha. These are the type of damage differences I see when doing the ranged attack test. (Deleted extraneous stuff inbetween, just trust me that I didn't do Berserk or Dia or anything stupid inbetween)
Code
Solo test using a Rabbit Pie as food and i119 Koga:

[02:25:21]Keityan uses Namas Arrow.
[02:25:21]The Unfettered Twitherym take 3022 points of damage.

[02:25:59]Keityan uses Tachi: Ageha.
[02:25:59]The Unfettered Twitherym take 1938 points of damage.

[02:26:10]Keityan uses Namas Arrow.
[02:26:10]The Unfettered Twitherym take 4355 points of damage.

[02:27:27]The Unfettered Twitherym' Defense Down effect wears off.
(2nd time around, I got a full duration 3 minute)


It definitely works on the high level 5 pre-req boss mobs (109-115). As for the bosses(119), this is still inconclusive. I still don't have a log that claims that the buff has worn off on Tojil/Mugi/Daku yet.
 Quetzalcoatl.Elysien
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By Quetzalcoatl.Elysien 2014-01-31 01:51:56
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Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I would imagine Tachi:Fudo, under the right circumstances, is an extremely powerful weaponskill with 119 Kogarasumaru.

Analyzing what you have been saying suggests you use Tachi:Shoha in any given sitaution, oblivious to the fact that in certain situations, Tachi:Fudo decimates Tachi:Shoha.

I believe this is what prompt the use of Ejiin's jpeg image (which pretty much suggests wtf are you doing.)

which is pretty much all the time.

oh by the way, was testing Ageha on normal DM. Did it twice on each mob; didn't proc once. I believe normal is considered level 119.
 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-31 08:12:31
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I tried testing ageha in legion, but mobs died to fast.
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By Sieha1 2014-01-31 09:06:12
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Cerberus.Reiden said: »
I tried testing ageha in legion, but mobs died to fast.

insert cool_story_bro.jpg.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-31 16:19:58
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Sieha1 said: »
Cerberus.Reiden said: »
I tried testing ageha in legion, but mobs died to fast.

insert cool_story_bro.jpg.

He wasn't meaning to be bragging, this is actually a very common problem when testing practical mobs. It's reasonable to try, but many times, even in delve, the mobs die too fast to reach the 3 minute mark to see a "wear off" effect. Also, it's not like anyone is going to go into Mul solo just to test this out. When testing practical mobs, there is still a degree of seriousness on the line, your alliance depends on you-- testing an ageha once or twice a mob is reasonable without jeopardizing the run or diverting away from your role as a DD.

All we see with "insert cool_story_bro.jpg" is just a non-constructive, trolling post.
-----
On the otherhand,

The bow test process takes about 20-30 seconds with buffs (Namas->Ageha->Namas->Berserk->Namas)- the only issue is making sure that Dia II/Frailty is applied before anything happens. (Or test it before they get a chance to cast those things).

This takes far less time to pull off and you only have to be aware of when your Dia II/lightshot and Frailty people cast debuffs.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-31 16:25:43
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TI~V Delve NMs don't have particularly high MEVA, so the falloff between iLvl MACC and monster MEVA won't be readily apparent on them (however I'm willing to wager that you'll see a fair amount of 1/2 resists on them anyway). As I said, and as Xenhas has already exhibited on abyssea mobs, your land rate is coming entirely from ilvl MACC. Once you engage something with enough MEVA to overpower that, you're going to have a bad time.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-31 16:34:00
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On Apex Arrow phenomenon:

A few posts ago I mentioned that in some cases, it seems that uncapped attack Apex arrow can perform similarly to Namas Arrow is some odd circumstances. After many tests on different mobs types, I have determined that this can actually be achieved... but only in Voidwatch. The TP bonus that you gain in VWNM is significant enough that when you're uncapped r.attack, Apex does about the same as Namas. (Still slightly weaker, but much more comparable). This allowed me to use Koga with a AM3 to spam Apex Arrow with quite good results on Morta. Unfortunately, otherwise, the WS is relegated to SAM's that don't have Namas yet.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-31 16:36:52
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I~V Delve NMs don't have particularly high MEVA, so the falloff between iLvl MACC and monster MEVA won't be readily apparent on them (however I'm willing to wager that you'll see a fair amount of 1/2 resists on them anyway). As I said, and as Xenhas has already exhibited on abyssea mobs, your land rate is coming entirely from ilvl MACC. Once you engage something with enough MEVA to overpower that, you're going to have a bad time.

So does that mean it's time to make m.acc sets for SAM!?

Do you know exactly how much "land rate" you get per point of m.acc?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-31 16:40:31
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No, there's not enough data floating around to suggest specific numbers on the relation between MACC and MEVA. Can't say something like 2MACC > 1MEVA = 1% Land Rate or anything like that.

I've done extensive testing on the accuracy of additional effects. I've been aware of their brokenness since around July of 2009, was probably the first one to actually notice and give a ***about it since no one else seemed to care until relatively recently. I've made numerous posts and bug reports about it on the OF, however nothing has been fixed yet. Even through all of the tests I've done, I haven't been able to solidify an exact magic accuracy model.

At the moment, it's just stack as much as you can and hope that you can overwhelm and enemy's evasion. Most likely, it works exactly as I said above, however there is not enough data to support the hypothesis.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-31 16:47:02
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Also, does "Enfeebling Skill" Count? I know you mentioned that for Blue Spells, "Blue magic skill" matters. For us, will it be based on Enfeebling or G.kat Skill or neither?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-31 16:48:12
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It would be based on the skill of your weapon, however to quote my earlier post...

Quote:
Would be best to test Ageha itself since, as I said, there's no guarantee that y stat will affect x debuff uniformly.

Things that we know affect WS additional effects are straight up magic accuracy, and skill with a weapon. The skill from the weapon bit is what I surmise is broken, i.e. you get the magic accuracy from actual macc and (possibly) INT/MND/whatever but not from skill, and so the recent massive infusion of magic accuracy from iLvl weapons and gear is what has caused things to start working on lower (higher than before) level things; note that Ageha, Shell Crusher, and BLU spells working on mobs immediately outside of Adoulin coincides with the magic accuracy from iLvl weapon skill adjustment. The magic accuracy you get from mainhanding an iLvl weapon exceeds all other slots with maximum available macc per slot combined, so it's a massive increase.

When I tested BLU add. effect accuracy on mobs in sky, I was able to land things somewhat regularly with Buramenk'ah equipped, but not with Isador equipped. This tells me that the magic accuracy that I should be getting from Blue Magic Skill is not being accounted for, but the large chunk of magic accuracy that I'm getting from my sword is. This was not always the case; skill used to affect blue magic add. effects in terms land rate.

Due to the fact that magic accuracy:magic evasion works in such small quantities, it isn't difficult to believe that the skill macc on iLvl weapons is causing us to be able to land things on a more varied range of targets, however this won't help on things with high magic evasion since iLvl weapons are the only way to get reasonably large chunks of macc for most jobs.

Therefor, my theory is that things are still not fixed, however the large amount of macc that we have on weapons is causing the illusion that things have been sorted out. We're still missing a large chunk of macc that we should be getting from skill which should be making our spells and weaponskills effective on almost everything.


Keep in mind, the magic accuracy that you're getting from your main handed weapon exceeds the combined magic accuracy of every other slot that you can equip on basically every job. That's why it makes so much of a difference, it is an enormous bonus.
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 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2014-02-03 05:44:16
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Is there a diff namas set for higher tier stuff like Muyingwa? i didnt have acc problems on bee WKR by myself w/ no food on namas so for now i assume the set for it in OP is best regardless, seemed to have really high acc
 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-02-03 10:17:02
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Asura.Natenn said: »
Is there a diff namas set for higher tier stuff like Muyingwa? i didnt have acc problems on bee WKR by myself w/ no food on namas so for now i assume the set for it in OP is best regardless, seemed to have really high acc

I used Llewelyn's Namas Arrow set which he probably uses for AA. In Ceizak Fracture zone the bonus for NM's is evasion, so if you dont use sushi or use a racc set, you will miss a bit for the duration of the bonus.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-02-03 10:21:29
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Namas also has a massive accuracy bonus. I've seen Yoichi SAM's plow through the high EVA phase in a full MAX set while AA SAM's whiff in full ACC sets.
 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2014-02-03 22:10:25
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so i prolly dont need a Acc-Namas set then?
 Sylph.Nikia
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By Sylph.Nikia 2014-02-04 00:14:35
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I noticed that Unkai legs +2 arent in Relic GK TP set... I thought the hasso JA haste meant those legs are pretty much always used for TP?

this set:
ItemSet 317396
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2014-02-04 00:17:47
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Hands have hasso
 Sylph.Nikia
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By Sylph.Nikia 2014-02-04 00:19:30
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yesh, but do they not stack or what am i missing?
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2014-02-04 00:20:09
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no they do not
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-02-04 00:20:53
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Sylph.Nikia said: »
yesh, but do they not stack or what am i missing?

Same value, don't stack. Unkai +2 legs are now collecting dust.
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By Sieha1 2014-02-04 03:10:33
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Do the hands enhance rice balls increase the effect further from before the reforge?
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-02-04 04:07:37
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Sylph.Nikia said: »
yesh, but do they not stack or what am i missing?
Even if they did stack, with capped magic haste you would be at max delay reduction with just one or the other.
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2014-02-04 21:26:34
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Bismarck.Keityan said: »
I still don't have a log that claims that the buff has worn off on Tojil/Mugi/Daku yet.

Wouldn't carcharian verve give the message of the debuff being wiped? This would be a decent way to see a rough land rate (not so much for duration) on a higher level mob, especially when it gets spammy under 25%, and uses verve over and over.
 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-02-04 23:33:20
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I attempted to try it on Tojil earlier. Didn't notice if it wore off cuz PUG was a cluster fck, but i would have to check my logs folder to see if it landed or not.
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