Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

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Bushido - The Way of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0
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 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-25 15:27:49
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Node 125
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 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-25 15:28:00
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 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-25 15:30:14
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 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-25 15:30:32
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 Sylph.Nikia
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By Sylph.Nikia 2014-01-26 20:41:36
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Amanomurakumo 119 VS Tsurumaru?
I want to bring it to 119 but if Tsurumaru is always going to win I wont bother.
Any help would be neat.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-26 20:46:44
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Sylph.Nikia said: »
Amanomurakumo 119 VS Tsurumaru?
I want to bring it to 119 but if Tsurumaru is always going to win I wont bother.
Any help would be neat.

It isn't always going to win, 119 Amano is powerful. And anytime your accuracy is under cap, Amano is the best GK you can use. It seems accuracy is becoming a staple in endgame again, you'd be crazy not to take it to 119.
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 Sylph.Nikia
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By Sylph.Nikia 2014-01-26 21:12:46
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OK so in the situations where ACC isnt really an issue, delve, pre SoA, etc.... Relic still good or am i gimping myself.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-26 21:16:48
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Sylph.Nikia said: »
OK so in the situations where ACC isnt really an issue, delve, pre SoA, etc.... Relic still good or am i gimping myself.

Unless Tsuru lowers you x-hit, it's not winning by much if it is. You could fulltime 119 Amano and not really be "gimp"
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2014-01-26 21:26:18
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just full-time Amano for style points. The difference isn't that much
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-26 21:37:45
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Decent generalization would be:

Amano 4-hit > Tsuru 4-hit > Amano 5-hit > Anahera 4-hit > Tsuru 5-hit

May change pending gear availability and other buffs. Obviously if you need acc, Amano would always be better.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-26 22:04:34
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First off, the effort to write this is commendable and highly appreciated.

However, here are some comments:

1. Did you write most of these gear sets are did you take them from someone else? The reason why I ask is because the process of maintaining this guide takes a lot of work and if you're the sole person who's coming up these sets, that's great. If you're depending on someone else to create these sets, this is not a good idea because you wouldn't be able to maintain this guide yourself.

2. Some of the mid-tier gear doesn't seem reasonable. For example, your Shoha set:
ItemSet 291555
is not very good advice middle tier players since there is more accessible gear than Ace's mail (such as Kariyeh Hauberk) or Outriders set:

3. Going back to the massive amount of sets, there is a bit of disorganization because there is indeed A LOT of sets here because there are so many weapons and buff situations. My advice is not to over-complicate the sets because frankly, the people who know how to deal with situational gear don't need a guide to teach them how to do it. Also, it's supposed to be a GUIDE-- it should be easy to use for people to jump right into the job and perform well.

Thus, the best way to approach this is to condense the gearsets to delay values and reasonable hit builds that have a default of 25% haste. This is considered a "Base Set". There's only 3-4 delay values that you need to play with: 494, 450, 437, 407. You only need to make 3-4 base sets. Right below it, make a chart. The chart will be a range of +STP and the corresponding hit builds. This way, if a player simply doesn't have a piece of gear, they can make adjustments themselves. "Oh, I don't have a K'ayres Ring, I only need +3 Store TP somewhere else".

With this, you'll have a "Base-Set" that ANYONE can use and still perform decently with any set. For people who don't have a specific piece of gear, they can instantly go to the STP table and see what type of swaps (Plus and minus STP) that they are able to make to maintain a hit-build and build around the base set. (Make a disclaimer that their base set STP will be affected by whether or not they used your suggested WS set.) Make sure they go under the progression of Haste->Hit Build and most people will do perfectly fine.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-26 22:08:58
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Honestly it just looks like the original guide was copy/pasted, not put back into node format, with no real updates to the sets at all since the original author's last update (which was ages ago). I'm assuming it's still a major work in progress and shouldn't be taken at face value yet.
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 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-26 22:09:40
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Pretty much.

This part would imply that. :p

Quote:
Situation 1: Sitting on 300 TP. NM/Boss Fight about to begin.
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Situation 2: Zerg Situation. Full Buffs. 300 TP. Meikyo Shisui Ready.
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Situation 3: OH SHI- most of the alliance just wiped. I'm one of the only DDs still alive.
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Situation 4: Blade Bash all the things!
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-26 22:15:45
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I'd go so far as to say that the whole thing needs to be entirely remade at this point. A lot of the information in the original is very outdated. Besides that, Nodes are so much easier and more efficient for these guides, especially since you can put multiple people in charge of editing and maintaining them.

From personal experience, writing and maintaining a guide by yourself is an absolutely enormous undertaking.

I'd be happy to make the face of it for you if you feed me the information that you want in it then pass off the editing rights to you.
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 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-27 03:47:28
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Any recent testing on Tachi: Ageha's defense down effect? Curious if it's still a shitty proc rate or if it's been half-fixed like Tourbillion.
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2014-01-27 05:41:57
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Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Any recent testing on Tachi: Ageha's defense down effect? Curious if it's still a shitty proc rate or if it's been half-fixed like Tourbillion.

I quickly tested about a month ago. It landed every time out of 10 tries on buggards in aby-konschtat for full duration using 119 Koga. It was definitely fixed in some way. I wouldn't be surprised if all similar WS were patched as well.

I can do some thorough testing after I get home from work tonight.
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 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-27 09:34:23
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Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Any recent testing on Tachi: Ageha's defense down effect? Curious if it's still a shitty proc rate or if it's been half-fixed like Tourbillion.

I tested this in Delve a while back and it's insanely broken when paired up with Namas Arrow. When I tested on Taxet, it proced ~80%-90% of the time (Easiest mob for me to test since it strips it so often).

I'd do a damage check with this on practically every mob(since ranged WS damage is static):
Namas Arrow (Check Damage)-> Tachi: Ageha-> Namas Arrow (Check Damage) and practically every mob is susceptible. (Boss buffs are variable so I'm still confirming the 3 bosses, but the tests points to yes).

I tested it A LOT on morta (Since our LS uses this NM to get merits for DM) and it procs practically every time. (In this respect, I'm testing Koga/Masa paired with Apex Arrow vs. Tsuru with Namas. It's weird, sometimes the WS damage is really close which leads me to think that the in some uncapped instances, the ignore defense portion can sometimes make it pull close to Namas. Othertimes, Namas clears Apex by over 1.2k.) For now, it's just a fun test since I need to entertain myself during Morta!- more on this later. Being able to manipulate the DEF with ageha helps a lot in this respect.

I was meaning to try it out on some other non-namas mobs such as Krabakarpo to see whether Murasamemaru would proc less because it has less m.acc but I havn't gotten around to it yet. It's hard to test some mobs (Turtle in Morimar or Gnat in ceizak) because they have varying damage resistances. (And not like you want to have DEF down discharged on yourself on anyway)

tl;dr
It works, use ageha as your first WS on every mob.
If you're paranoid, do a "before and after" with a ranged weapon skill.
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 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-27 15:36:58
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Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Boss buffs are variable so I'm still confirming the 3 bosses, but the tests points to yes
Isn't defense down a wind based debuff? I'd assume it'd have a hard time landing on Muyingwa.

Very good news about Ageha though, thanks!
 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-01-27 16:17:31
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Bismarck.Keityan said: »
First off, the effort to write this is commendable and highly appreciated.

However, here are some comments:

1. Did you write most of these gear sets are did you take them from someone else? The reason why I ask is because the process of maintaining this guide takes a lot of work and if you're the sole person who's coming up these sets, that's great. If you're depending on someone else to create these sets, this is not a good idea because you wouldn't be able to maintain this guide yourself.

2. Some of the mid-tier gear doesn't seem reasonable. For example, your Shoha set:
ItemSet 291555
is not very good advice middle tier players since there is more accessible gear than Ace's mail (such as Kariyeh Hauberk) or Outriders set.

The sets that have dates updated are the ones i ran thru spreadsheets. The RME sets, i asked Llewelyn if i could use his until i run some numbers.

The sets are pretty much a guide to give you an idea of how to gear for mid lvl content or high level content, not a you should use this only or bust.
 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-01-27 16:42:07
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Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Any recent testing on Tachi: Ageha's defense down effect? Curious if it's still a shitty proc rate or if it's been half-fixed like Tourbillion.

I tested this in Delve a while back and it's insanely broken when paired up with Namas Arrow. When I tested on Taxet, it proced ~80%-90% of the time (Easiest mob for me to test since it strips it so often).

I'd do a damage check with this on practically every mob(since ranged WS damage is static):
Namas Arrow (Check Damage)-> Tachi: Ageha-> Namas Arrow (Check Damage) and practically every mob is susceptible. (Boss buffs are variable so I'm still confirming the 3 bosses, but the tests points to yes).

I tested it A LOT on morta (Since our LS uses this NM to get merits for DM) and it procs practically every time. (In this respect, I'm testing Koga/Masa paired with Apex Arrow vs. Tsuru with Namas. It's weird, sometimes the WS damage is really close which leads me to think that the in some uncapped instances, the ignore defense portion can sometimes make it pull close to Namas. Othertimes, Namas clears Apex by over 1.2k.) For now, it's just a fun test since I need to entertain myself during Morta!- more on this later. Being able to manipulate the DEF with ageha helps a lot in this respect.

I was meaning to try it out on some other non-namas mobs such as Krabakarpo to see whether Murasamemaru would proc less because it has less m.acc but I havn't gotten around to it yet. It's hard to test some mobs (Turtle in Morimar or Gnat in ceizak) because they have varying damage resistances. (And not like you want to have DEF down discharged on yourself on anyway)

tl;dr
It works, use ageha as your first WS on every mob.
If you're paranoid, do a "before and after" with a ranged weapon skill.

Good news, thanks for that.
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By Siren.Kyte 2014-01-27 17:41:59
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I'm trying to be objective about this, but admittedly I don't play SAM so there could be some bias:

Ageha should not exist, at least not in its current state as a (mostly?) reliable 3 minute -25% debuff. Samurai is already a pretty potent and relatively versatile DD (has both piercing and slashing options for close range, has ranged options, has a meaningful options for both low ratio/high ratio situations, etc) as well as decent defensive capabilities, although admittedly there are quite a few things nowadays that Third Eye doesn't work well on.

Adding in a potent -defense% WS that doesn't stack with other non-GEO related abilities just seems like a bit much, particularly when you consider the fact that they may have held back Dragoon to a certain degree because of its access to such an ability. Angon can't even be kept up full-time by a single DRG and is no more potent.

Has it been tested on a Delve boss since the update?
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2014-01-27 18:12:51
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Im fairly sure Xenhas did a test on this a couple years ago, it can be overwritten etc. It was nerfed at some point.
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By thechamp14 2014-01-27 19:27:03
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Can you add in a small part for polearm? And what is better WS in general Shoha or fudo with tsuru?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-27 19:33:24
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thechamp14 said: »
Can you add in a small part for polearm? And what is better WS in general Shoha or fudo with tsuru?

Shoha vs Fudo is situational, as with everything. Generally Fudo is going to win on fodder or when you are getting attack buffs.

As for polearm...
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2014-01-27 19:36:07
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Leviathan.Nitenichi said: »
Im fairly sure Xenhas did a test on this a couple years ago, it can be overwritten etc. It was nerfed at some point.

It wasn't nerfed, so much as it was just broken.
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By Remora.Brain 2014-01-27 19:49:16
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I recently did a test on mandy's in ceizak and Ageha def down landed 0 out of 100 uses with 119 Amano, unless the effect is obscenely longer than the wiki says and isn't shown wearing off in chat logs.

To compare, I switched to WAR with an underskilled terra's staff and landed Shell Crusher 12 times, procd on all 12 and got a partial resist on 3.

I quit there because I was so annoyed.
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2014-01-27 19:53:01
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it lasts either 1:30 or 3:00. You must have been missing something. 0/100 would be a horrible streak, even with floored m.acc
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-27 20:27:26
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Full chat that looks something like this:
Code
[23:21:28]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
[23:21:42]Tax'et is no longer paralyzed.
[23:21:42]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
[23:21:47]Tax'et takes 1214 points of damage.
[23:21:47]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
[23:22:03]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
[23:22:19]Tax'et is no longer paralyzed.
[23:22:19]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
[23:23:47]Tax'et's Defense Down effect wears off.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-01-27 21:29:49
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Remora.Brain said: »
I recently did a test on mandy's in ceizak and Ageha def down landed 0 out of 100 uses with 119 Amano, unless the effect is obscenely longer than the wiki says and isn't shown wearing off in chat logs.

To compare, I switched to WAR with an underskilled terra's staff and landed Shell Crusher 12 times, procd on all 12 and got a partial resist on 3.

I quit there because I was so annoyed.

First mob I try on my first WS with 100% TP using a Koga119:
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/images/52e723f0a068d67496b0e730.jpg

Edit: Done with event now! First try on mandy (180% TP) using Koga119:
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/images/52e72766a068d67496b0e7bb.jpg

All full duration at 3 minutes.
 Remora.Brain
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By Remora.Brain 2014-01-27 22:56:23
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I gathered a few up at a time and would Ageha each one, then waited 4 minutes from the last one and checked though the logs and didn't see it wear off a single time.

I would say it was my filters or something, but I didn't change them between SAM and WAR and I got all the wear messages from Shell Crusher.

The test was done on January 10th, so fairly recently.

That said, I'm more than happy to say I f*cked up and have wasted my time if it means I can land Ageha def down on stuff.

Now came the questions: How high a mob can I expect it to reliably land on? Should I try and find MACC gear for it? BLU physical spells are calculated as if they were tp moves and their added effects are based on dINT and dMND depending on that added effects typical alignment, do WS added effects do the same?
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