RDM Merits For Today

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RDM Merits for today
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 Fenrir.Killercat
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By Fenrir.Killercat 2013-06-17 16:33:12
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Just what the topic says. I'm working on leveling RDM for new endgame stuff just want an idea of what merits are used now.
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By kingfischer 2013-06-19 11:03:33
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I'll just go full RDM mage on this one since unless you're with a very "open minded" group they won't let you melee at all.
Stats: MND/INT 12 in each helps those debuffs stick
Magic: healing, enhancing, elemental, enfeebling
RDM 1: Convert 5/5 (you can never have too much mp) and probably ice magic acc 5/5 to help para land on mobs.
RDM 2: Dia 3 5/5 (everything demands this so it dies faster) and (personally i like this) phalanx 2. the other spells just aren't mp efficient and kinda suck unless you 5/5 them. Phalanx can help that PLD super tank just a little better and help your DDs which go a bit crazy and don't have the -pdt sets properly up. Also... nobody gathers so you can /sch phalanx anyway so people jumping in to say this idea is stupid can think on that.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 11:15:31
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Ice and wind accuracy 5/5(paralyze and silence are incredibly valuable). I can't justify Convert anymore. RDM duties just aren't particularly MP intensive, and landing certain debuffs immediately is oftentimes critical

Dia III 2/5 is plenty sufficient as far as durations are concerned(you really just need to be able to accommodate for Light Shot upkeep). Slow II 3/5 and Paralyze II 5/5 made the most sense to me beyond that. Slow is fantastic when it's applicable, but when so many things attack in JA fashion(and cast obnoxious spells), paralyze begins to take precedence.

Note that this is specifically with regard to Delve content. If you do random odds and ends on lower level content for whatever reason, your mileage may vary considerably
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2013-06-19 11:53:33
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Phalanx II is useless today. Phalanx gives higher damage reduction and Ascension makes it AoE.

I never could justify convert merits for my RDM alt. She hardly ever rode her convert timer.

She has Ice & Wind 5/5, Para II & Slow II 4/5, Dia III 2/5.

INT & MND 12/12, Enhancing & Enfeebling 8/8, Healing 4/8, Elemental and Dark 6/8. Enmity Decrease & Spell Interruption Rate 5/5.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 12:26:39
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Healing skill merits don't make much sense. At best they're wildly inefficient for MP conservation, at worst(read: most of the time) they're doing absolutely nothing

Enfeebling/Dark 8/8 should be staple if you're using RDM or SCH for Delve content, the others are all negotiable
 Phoenix.Upbeatglitch
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By Phoenix.Upbeatglitch 2013-06-19 12:50:50
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Enfeebling, Dark, Elemental 8/8
Healing 6/8
Enhancing 2/8
ItemSet 284713
With this set I'm at exactly 500 enhancing skill which allows me to drop the enhancing merits and put them elsewhere. Downside is it's a little more taxing on inv space.

For Group 1 currently I'm using:
5/5 Convert Recast
3/5 Ice Magic Accuracy
2/5 Wind Magic Accuray

Sometimes I'll switch to 5/5 earth for breaks, 5/5 wind for gravity & silence, 5/5 Lightning for stun, it changes depending on what I'm doing. I always keep 5/5 convert, if you aren't spending your MP you're doing something wrong.

Group 2:
This changes very very often depending on what I'm doing.
2/5 Dia III
3/5 Slow II
2/5 Para II
2/5 Bio III
1/5 Blind II

I've recently switched to this, it gives a little bit of everything.

For pvp I like having 5/5 Blind II.. Using a high eva set + saboteur/Blind II the other person generally has a very difficult time landing hits which forces them to use acc+ gear, and hopefully makes them lose resist pieces.
Some solos require having Dia III 5/5, otherwise it isn't worth it imo.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 13:52:26
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PVP/soloing aside, it's going to be pretty difficult to drain a RDM in situations where you want a RDM at the moment. Having the option to heal in emergencies is nice, but making sure slow, paralyze, silence, gravity, dia, and addle are consistently applied to things while maintaining haste cycles(and stunning when applicable) seems pretty full-time. That said, none of those things are MP intensive, so being able to convert every 8 minutes instead of every 10 minutes for fights that predominantly take anywhere from 3 to 7 minutes(with ample downtime in between) loses its luster
 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2013-06-19 14:46:48
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Group 1:

As much in Convert as you feel is necessary. I've only had one scenario in recent years where I actually had to ride the Convert timer, and that could have been negated with better DDs.

All remaining merits split between Ice (Paralyze) and Wind (Silence), with a preference for Wind since Paralyze II gets extra accuracy from its own merits.


Group 2:

Bio III - 1/5 at best, if it's a VW proc (not actually sure) and you still do that.

Dia III - 2/5 minimum, 3/5 for comfort, 5/5 can be nice (lasts 3 minutes with AF2+2 head augment).

Blind II - 1/5. 5/5 gains you -4 acc on the target and +8 m.acc. Additional reduction of accuracy is actually progressively better, however the increase per merit is tiny, and most current mobs have obscenely over-capped accuracy on players anyways, making its probable value nil.

Slow II - Haste is an exponential curve. That's to your benefit as you stack haste, but it has less and less value as you stack slow. Large amounts of slow (eg: Slow + Elegy) are still useful, but not so much with small amounts such as you get from additional merits. The only real value of extra merits is the extra m.acc.

Paralyze II - Paralyze proc rates appear to be a linear progression (ie: 5% paralyze paralyzes 5% of all attacks). From a defensive perspective, each additional percent is that much more valuable, since it's a damage reduction of 1/(100-N), where N is the current paralyze percentage. That is, from a damage reduction standpoint it works a bit like haste, where each additional percent is that much more valuable than the last. As such, I'd put as much into this as possible.

We don't have numbers for paralyze proc rates, however if it were the same as Slow II (35% at capped dStat, +1% per additional merit): Slow II from 1/5 to 5/5 is 3% slower attack speed; Paralyze II from 1/5 to 5/5 would be 6.5% fewer attacks. However, even if Paralyze II's base proc rate is much lower, it's still better. 10% to 14% is a 4.7% reduction in attacks.


Overall suggested distribution:

Dia III - 3/5
Paralyze II - 5/5
Slow II - 1/5
Blind II - 1/5

You can optionally pull one point from one of the others to bump Slow II up to 2/5.


Magic merits:
Enfeebling 8/8. It's what you're there for.

Optional:
Dark 8/8. If you're helping with stuns. In situations where free stunning isn't allowed, for mobs where the m.acc matters and you already have schs on stun duty, it may not be needed.
Enhancing 8/8. Even if you can get away with less on rdm itself, it's still useful for whm and sch.

Last 8/8 depends on what else you do, and what other jobs may want merits in the category (eg: blm, blu, smn, geo, etc). As such there's no single 'recommended' skill.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 15:13:46
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Better explanations than I could provide. Thanks.

Personally dropped my Blind II merit when it stopped being a VW proc, because as far as end game content is concerned, its only real application is keeping Tutewehiwehi under control, and Blind I is plenty sufficient for that
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By failacious 2013-06-20 05:29:52
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Truth be told Dia III merits should be done away with. Now that its been tested and proven that Dia II + double light shot is the same as Dia III + light shot (can't double light shot on Dia III) it should fall to one of the corsairs responsibility of keeping dia on the mob.

If you aren't using a corsair then whatever you are fighting probably wont need the Dia III to begin with. (Dia II should suffice)
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-20 11:06:31
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Dia III is godly, live by it.

After that it's between Slow II and Para II. Blind II is a joke for the most part, anything you'd be serious about enfeebling would have 150%+ (capped at 80) hit rate. Bio III is also a joke due to RDM having absolute sh!t dark magic skill. Phalanx II at 5/5 is the same potency as Phalanx when your capped enhancing magic. If you need to phalanx someone then just use accession.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 12:46:25
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failacious said: »
Truth be told Dia III merits should be done away with. Now that its been tested and proven that Dia II + double light shot is the same as Dia III + light shot (can't double light shot on Dia III) it should fall to one of the corsairs responsibility of keeping dia on the mob.

If you aren't using a corsair then whatever you are fighting probably wont need the Dia III to begin with. (Dia II should suffice)

Fodder exists, NM fights aren't always perfect- there are reasons to not depend on a double Light Shot Dia II

If you have it around, great, but a few extra points in Slow II are all by meaningless
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:17:03
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Fodder exists, NM fights aren't always perfect- there are reasons to not depend on a double Light Shot Dia II

I think there are more reasons not to depend on dia III + light shot if you ask me. Even if you rotate cors mid fight on something you looking at it dropping only for a few extra seconds.

Dia III is nice for scenarios you aren't taking a cor (duo salvage) but the gain really isn't that much. I suppose there isn't really other merits to offer in the way of completely bumping off Dia III. I personally like phalanx II because it wouldn't limit me when I wasn't using sch sub.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:25:10
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Your reasoning for not depending on single Light Shot Dia III tumbles into not depending on single double Light Shot Dia II

In the absence of Light Shot, Dia III is obviously better

If you insist on having Phalanx II around, simply unlock it. An additional 5% DEF down is going to amount to more than those additional few points of damage reduction from a more powerful Phalanx
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:29:43
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Your reasoning for not depending on single Light Shot Dia III tumbles into not depending on single Light Shot Dia II

I dont understand what you mean here.

Double light shot Dia II = 20%
Single light shot Dia III= 20%

You can't double light shot off of Dia III because the second light shot has no effect. Thus regardless of doing Dia II or Dia III you cap at 20%. Why try and have 2 people coordinate for the same result when 1 person can handle it by themselves a lot easier?
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:32:13
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It was a typo, and your summary makes zero sense in the context of you argument

Why would you want to rely on Dia II and two subsequent actions instead of Dia III and one?
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:37:34
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Because of what I stated above. You are adding a whole other layer of complexity when you get 2 people to coordinate together for a single goal. Is it THAT difficult to coordinate something like this? No not really, but why bother when a single person can do it themselves? Yes its technically an extra action... but so what? Shots are instant its not like you lose time pressing the same macro twice.

You would lose a lot more time having the rdm Dia III and making sure the cor is paying attention to light shot after or the rdm needing to remind the cor.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:41:29
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Someone else needs to get in here and make sense of what you're trying to say to me, else you need to point out the hole in my understanding of your point

a) 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

b) 1 + 1 = 2

"b) is too complicated, guys, lets do a)"
 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2013-06-20 15:43:07
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Another reason not to depend on double Light Shot on Dia II is the indication that specific elemental damage may help dispel the auras the top NMs have. In that case, you'll want the cors to have as many charges as possible to help dispel the aura (Thunder Shot on shark, possibly Water Shot on Tojil) rather than 'waste' them bumping up a weaker Dia effect.

3 merits in Dia III, plus AF2+2 head, lets Dia III last 108 seconds, nearly as long as Dia II, and use only one shot in the time it takes to get two Quick Draw charges. With only 2 merits in Dia III, you'd have to re-boost it about once per minute, which means you aren't saving any charges vs two Light Shots every 2 minutes with Dia II. 5/5 Dia III would last 3 minutes, and only need one Quick Draw out of every 4 charges.

This is only in theory, though; hasn't been validated with testing on Tojil, though it's certainly useful on the shark.
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:44:12
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You are completely disregarding what I'm saying and hearing only what you want to hear lol.

It isn't about the number of actions. Yes 1 more action in scenario A.

Its the fact that the actions do not come from the same source.

2 people, instead of 1 person. Look at it like that instead.

Edit: For Mot, most groups take another cor and we use that cor to do the shots for the aura. People have already started using a sch instead to rotate in enthunder to dispel the sharks aura faster. (on DD zerg strategies)
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:44:17
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Oh praise Jesus- a third party

Mot, please explain what I'm not seeing here
 Asura.Deadwing
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By Asura.Deadwing 2013-06-20 15:44:32
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Unless you know for sure you won't be doing any solo play, I'd heavily recommend 5/5 convert.

I'll be honest I'm not sure what kind of mobs are out there these days (I'm retired) but I can't count the number of times convert has come up in the nick of time solo. No way elemental accuracy could make a bigger difference.

Other than that, enhancing over 500 as upbeat said.
I keep my healing magic skill low because I actually keep a cure cheat set in my mog sack, but I'm sure that's just me.

and Uhhh probably wind accuracy for silence if you're pvping no items. That's about all I got.

-Cheers

Edit: 5/5 bio III is real nice when you're turtle tanking with cocoon
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:46:11
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Okay. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed I was missing something, but you've got to be *** with me.

a) requires 2-3 people

b) requires 2

How does either scenario involve a lone participant?
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:49:21
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Because that's a specific scenario with 3 mobs in the game. On other NM's it would only be a 2 vs 1 scenario... right?
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:51:47
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..and outside of a Light Shot-boosted scenario, Dia III is still better?

This is one of the most confounding discussions I've ever had on this forum
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:53:34
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yes, out of a light shot boosted scenario Dia III is better. But the only time you wouldn't be using light shot boost is on fodder (like you mentioned)

If that's the case, in MY opinion (meaning you dont have to agree with it) Dia II is good enough for fodder.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:56:47
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I have no idea why you even mentioned everything about number of actions/participants
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 15:57:40
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All the same, there's really no case for an additional merit in Phalanx II being more potent than 5% DEF down. That's just unfamiliarity with game mechanics
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By failacious 2013-06-20 15:58:56
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Because that's the premise of the argument. If Dia II can obtain the same level of defense down vs Dia III ultimately....

AND

Only require 1 person to get there instead of 2 which would be required with Dia III.

You'd be better off assigning 1 of the cors to handle doing the Dia II + double light shot (meaning cor sub rdm or whm)

Maybe I forgot to mention that cor is casting Dia II somewhere along the line...

Edit: Ya you are right, it's probably not worth getting rid of Dia III but I think our discussion became a discussion of doing Dia III + light shot vs Dia II + double light shot.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-20 16:00:35
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You left out that pivotal detail. Yes, if you're not in a coordinated event and your COR have access to Dia II, there's very little reason to involved a secondary party

That really has no impact on RDM merits, though. RDM merits cease to be relevant when you don't have a RDM present
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