These New-age WHM Make Me /sigh

Stop calling us idiots when you're the one without the 75 WHM and that's not backing anything you say up.

Even someone with no knowledge of car mechanics can tell you that Engines almost always go in the front of a car.
Just like how people with almost no knowledge of Slow can tell you Slow II wouldn't be weaker than Slow I.

And you still don't get it do you..

Atonement spam wut?

Agreed. Stop calling people names. Continue on the topic. Thanks.

Edit:

Lordgenbu has been banned from posting on this thread. Thank you.

Eternius just won the thread.

Just to play devil's advocate on this, it is technically possible to have a Slow I slow the mob down more than Slow II assuming one is mnd boosted and one isn't, you'd just have to put a lot more effort into doing it, lol.

Just a curiosity, just added this up and got 96/89 and it's bugging me, lol. What set is whm using to get +97?

I just threw it into myffxigear.kicks-***.org.

Ah ok, I just looked it up and it cheats by giving you an ixion cloak while wearing headgear, haha.

Told you to duo Kirin's Pole's...right?

Pole + Shield close enough?

Ah, just glossed over it real fast, writing an essay atm :X

Eh, you don't get titles from lolNyzule NMs.. I got mine from the real thing, and i didnt need too /BLM on my WHM too get them >_>

Anyways, all youve really done is point out how WHM and BLM Slow I with decent potency gear is about the same percent - 29.3 max.

I don't understand why you cannot seem too fathom that there is more than one way to do something...not all HNM need ES too land debuffs if your mages are anywhere decent.

Even then, say every BLM has too use ES once during the fight too keep Slow on, wow that's like one less nuke O-M-G No! Say the WHM comes /BLM that's lower def bar spells, that's more mp cost on your cures, that's slower casting cures, that's a RDM that doesnt *have* too waist MP refreshing them... Its really much in the same except with /SCH you're getting more than one benefit..

Do they even have the job leveled? if not please just stop talking lol.. Also, kinda funny too be disgusted by people talking of things they know nothing about where a few times you've said that BLM slow caps out at 19% lol, just sayin lol..

Edit: went afk, sorry if a bunch of that seems rehashed =/

Adverb

too

1. Likewise; also; in addition.
2. Over; more than enough; noting excess, as in too much.

Yah sry really bad habit, i've no clue how i manage too type up assignments spelling it correctly while misspelling it on here, guess i just dont really care coz its a forum.. sorry if it hurts your eyes lol :(

Heh, that was bugging me too Enternius, it's funny though, because for the most part you actually write fairly well, but you get something wrong consistently that we learn in early primary school. Go figure.

Anyway, Slow II > Slow I, yes, a pimp slow I will beat a gimp slow II, but that's true for everything. RDM have high MND and enfeebling skill for a reason, make use of it. WHM are really good at curing for a reason, make use of that too. And oh look, BLM are really good at nuking ***... seeing a connection yet?

@Clinpachi: I know where you're coming from, and it's an easy mistake to make, but you're still wrong. Atonement is based on enmity, and once you reach a certain amount of enmity, 100% tp is the same (or about 30 damage less) than 300% tp. This extra damage gives a pretty decent amount of enmity, which helps PLD keep hate. Using joyeuse allows you to use atonement about 1.5 times as often as burtgang, and since pretty much everything is now tanked as pld/nin, the aim is to not get hit, meaning that the damage reduction and decreased enmity loss from taking damage on burtgang mean very little.

If pld/war was a viable tank in more situations, then yes, burtgang would probably be a better option, especially when combined with Valhalla gear and d.ring etc, but with this sort of tanking gear, you're losing a lot of haste, meaning that the pld/nin joyeuse build is getting an even bigger advantage with atonement spam.

Yah i know its pretty bah habit, i get given heaps for it all the time. I'll admit, if i don't pay attention too specifically using it correctly that's what happens. Nevermind the fact that im sitting here writing up stuff for TAFE (idk if they call it that overseas, like university but for us poor folks lol) and my spelling in that was pretty much perfect D:

*hides in a corner*

Back too topic at hand, sorry derail <_<

And the great thing about this is, when you take time and consideration into your answers and provide facts and sound advice. Many people will appreciate it (including myself).

It's people such as genbu who have the leetist attitude and ignorance that drive people such as myself away from even remotely caring.

That being said this could go for nearly any topic.

What what people also neglect is that there is NO single way to do things in this game, this even applies to the WHM conversation at hand with /SCH

It's fun to watch people try to ethug, but lets face it there will be someone to always play devil's advocate as well as keep an open mind on how to do things.

I personally don't believe a joyeuse PLD spamming atonement holds hate lightyears better than any pimped out aegis/burtgang PLD. Nor will i ever. The simple fact that anyone would say no to a burtgang over a joyeuse baffles me...

This is my opinion and i am entitled to it... if your shell does things a different way then power to you... put bluntly, just because you think (or your LS thinks) and does things a certain way, does not mean there are other alternatives or perspectives.

This not only applies to the PLD spasm people had but to /SCH for WHM as well.

I agree, its personal preference, I was really only trying too point out that there were probably more benefits from /SCH overall. But then again, only ppl with no HNM experience would think such a thing right LG..? XD

Edit: O.o Blazza aussie too? :D

A lot of what you say is true of course, there is no ONE way to do things. But on the other hand, in some ways there kind of is. Look at all the cookie cutter sams for instance, they're all the same because there really is one optimal build, you can only vary from that so much before your performance is affected. Enmity is perhaps even more touchy in this fashion, but I'm not going to deliberate, since in about 99.9% of situations I agree with you that there's many different ways of doing it. (For that .1% have a look at TK's latest proposed AV strategy, it's intense)


/looks at the flag next to each of our names

This and nothing less or more. You know SMN can be a mage sub too, but have you ever seen a BLM/SMN???? Hey you have blinkga and whatnot so why wouldn't you do it? Simply because of the effectivness... and that's what it's all about. If you guys say /blm will do better than /SCH you either are at a very low level so it won't make a diff or you haven't used its full potential yet, because yet i have only seen MainSCH using this sub properly. I could add some social "oh but blm is better here and there" or "yea rdm really shines there" but CMON! Use that sub to its potential and you will just see for yourself, period.

well... you know... by the time your done with this senseless argueing you could've already been done with you /SCH ... ;P

oh wait... argueing is fun! :D

please continue

On paper, /sch is hands down the best sub for whm available. Let me give you a few reasons why.

Scholar has light arts (-10% mp on white magic spells, and -10% casting time/recast time). They have 2 stratagem charges available, with a cooldown of 2 minutes per charge. Penury and Celerity are very very useful. Sublimation if no rdm is available for refresh. Sure you lose 1 hp a tic, but you charge 2 mp/tic in return and it's helpful if you're slept. You also have dark arts for access to higher skill drain and aspirs along with dispel if no rdm or bard is available. It also has max mp boost. While its not a big boost, any mp helps.

Switching between light arts and dark arts can be a hassle. If you ever need dispel, it also requires a charge to use addendum: Black.

Black mage has elemental seal, which is useful for fights like khimmy or wherever you can't land slow reliably (if you even need to). Sleepga, which anywhere you'd need sleepga, you're more than likely to get resisted. Tractor, bio1/2, drain and aspir with 114 dark magic skill.. need i say more?

Summoner has more mp then any of the other subs. It also allows you a 2mp/tic refresh without having to charge sublimation first. Other than that, it has no other real benefits.

So it looks like -10%mp cost/recast/casting time, penury and celerity, access to a high dark skill drain/aspir, dispel, and sublimation vs sleepga, elemental seal, and tractor vs 2mp/tic refresh and higher base mp.

Not very hard to see which sub wins. And inb4 situational sub is situational, please tell me of a situation where you'd rather use /blm for ANYTHING vs /sch. Give me reasons why /blm would be better. The only thing i can think of is Khimaira where you have a limited amount of slowers.

@The pld debate, the enmity and damage output of joy vs the tanking abilities and damage mitigation of burtgang are in favor of joyeuse. The point of a paladin is keeping the mobs attention and mitigating damage as best you can right? Why not add some damage in there, which improves keeping the mobs attention. Sure, burtgang might do better for stuff like pld/rdm on ixion, but anything else I can't see how losing potential thousands of damage is worth -10% phy damage where you should be avoiding damage altogether. Burtgang is simply not worth the price tag when you can tank indefinitely better with a joyeuse, whilst doing damage speeding up the killing process.

Well said, and basically what ive been saying, none of which seems too really be getting through too some people though <_<

Thanks! I just don't like when people say that the best and most efficient way to do things is the wrong way. I love that I have my maat's cap with 8 75 jobs, and have no *** clue how to play or gear them. That statement is not directed towards anyone.

lmao @ you.

A) i never said it was the wrong way, i said it was HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to pass and scoff at the burtgang. And the only reason i gave him a hard time about it was the leetist attitude which apparently you seem to have as well... but hey your excellence, that's your world too i suppose.

B) your not even on my server, you don't know me or any of my friends, nor would i care if you did.

C) check my equip section on my profile while your swinging around on my nuts checking it anyways, if that isn't knowing how to equip my jobs i care about.

I love how when people are quick to say "oh i bet that's good on colibri lmao @ you" that they don't stop to think nobody cares completely about endgame and that this isn't high school or a popularity contest.

calling names and pointing fingers on the internet forums, i could go on a limb and say something similar to you...

"...and have no *** clue that you are playing a video game and that nobody cares how cool your gear or in-game junk is."

/end again

it would be really nice if people did what the mods asked and kept on track instead of incessant point of fingers and ethugging.

i said it once ill say it again there is no single way to accomplish anything in the game that was simply all i was saying, and will continue to say.

/SCH on WHM.... and burtgang on PLD is included...

everything is always situational, everything is always debatable.

Sorry if that bit of truth is too great for some people

best of luck in the real world.

edrama reminds me of the MMO being used in an interview thread, can already picture certain people doing it.... not naming any names.

You completely missed the point of my post. You go back to say "there is no single way to accomplish anything in the game". Did I try to refute that? No. I simply stated facts as to why /sch is the best sub for whm. There is nothing any sub can offer whm in terms of healing capacity and support that will even touch scholar sub.

You say I have a leetest attitude, along with the others that try to prove or have proven you wrong in many cases. I'm sorry that we enjoy striving to be the best and doing the best we can. If doing your job half assed and not putting in any effort in learning the jobs you have and how to properly equip or play them is your cup of tea, then hey, to each their own. I'll be the guy doing my job better then you.

And I can't help but say that you're contradicting yourself in A with your post about pld not supposed to DD. Stop living in 2005 when plds went for turtle setups and be more conventional. Atonement is one of the best tools a pld has at its disposal. If you look at top tier linkshells, most of their plds have atonement sets for a reason. I can guarantee that a pld/nin with an atonement setup with take less damage while doing more damage and holding hate better then the best of burtgang/aegis/d.ring/insertLEETESTgearhere pld/war on the majority of anything you fight. I dare you to prove me wrong.

But I digress, I'll be the bigger man and agree with you on 2 of your points. You're correct in saying that there is no single way to accomplish anything. I can respect your opinion about burtgang because it is without a doubt the best blood tanking sword there is. You're also correct in saying that everything is always situational and everything is always debatable. I can also respect your opinion about /sch sub on whm.

The point I'm trying to get across is that there is always a best way to accomplish things in this game. If that comes off elitist to you then I don't know what to say. The linkshell I'm in is called Excellence for a reason. It's because it's what we strive for. If doing things the non efficient way for sake of being different is something you enjoy, then more power to you. But arguing against the proven most effective way to tank and doubling as a DD for most NM's is just plain negligent.

Now why couldn't you say even a shred of this instead of:



because quite frankly as i said you don't know me... and i don't know you... and to somehow say i have no clue how to play or gear is absolutely moronic and childish.

all the time with my friends both RL and in-game are priceless, and flying out to the 2007 fanfest against my better will or judgment also turned out to be a completely amazing vacation with plenty of memories.

and i'll never take any of these past 6 years back.

people play FFXI for different reasons, i pass time in college and play with close RL friends and do HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE (yes NON endgame) ***99% of the time.

being in excellence i can understand a bit of leetism, you guys do great things, and that's wonderful. but you of all people should know to set better examples and like you said "be the bigger man".

i know enough about the game to play the jobs i care about well:

A) Samurai
B) Whitemage

any other job i don't really honestly know much about, just the core basics and mechanics. did i learn anything about PLD tanking in HNM? sure, and i never once said anything was wrong with joyeuse, only asked why the hell would you pass up burtgang and not even blink an eye at it.

Silly but viable reason, doing sky and don't want to have to swap parties everytime you need to escape.

More seriously, there are a few assaults where it's useful, Ryaaf, sleepgaing the chigoes is nice. I personally used it when I used to 3-box Operation Snake Eyes with the absolutely horrid setup of SAM WHM BLM and the ES sleep on the charm lamia was absolutely vital. It could also be potentially useful on assault cerb perhaps since I recall he's a little hard to slow though not sure about that one.

And why just /blm? /smn for zhayolm boss, /drk for a number of other situations, /sch is great for when you just need to cure, but the beautiful thing about whm is you can do everything with your main job already so sub job essentially just provides some additional flexibility or efficiency depending on what you need at the time.

I'll be dead honest, UNTIL they announced and added the new JA's and spells... i was ready to jump ship and level scholar straight to 75 and never touch WHM again except in various situations.

the universal usefulness of SCH in many things (salvage especially) is almost unfair.

I'm glad they realized it and fixed WHM as well as gave BLM more to work with.

/SCH is famous for improving on your main job's capabilities, while quite literally providing nothing useful in return.

Take, for example, the situation at hand. A WHM/SCH will out-main-heal any other subjob combination but that's basically all you'll do better than others.

For a BLM/SCH, you're much better at pure nuking than, say, a BLM/RDM, but you lose Gravity, Stoneskin, and Blink among other things.

/SCH is a very viable option if you're doing your job and no more.

That being said, it would be stupid to show up BLM/SCH if you're soloing an NM or something, no?