IiPunch - Monk Guide

Mani hands really win?

Augmented, they give STR+10 DEX+17 Attack+15 Accuracy+10 Haste+4%

It says Tenryu +1, Mani hands (R10)> then the rest. Just looking at the stats I would guess that's right, but I'm guessing it was tested before put up.

I would figure Otro would win but idk

What is Otro?
Edit: Nvm, that isn't actually available yet, probably why it's not included.

Otronif Gloves

Thank you

If you don't have Tekko+1, the set I posted is for Impetus up and down assuming low accuracy needs. It's actually a miniscule downgrade (0.05%) to switch to a Tantra body based set.

And re: hand hierarchy, switching hands straight to bozo without the other swaps ends up about 0.5% behind my suggestion.

I use the Tojil template with full buffs for my comparisons.

Following is with full buffs haste, march 2X, minuet 3x, mad, chaos/fight/rouges/hunters, red curry and custom +200 acc and impetus up.

I have the set you posted at : 627.884 DPS
Optimal set at : 640.299 DPS
Optimal set with manibozho hands at. : 636.236 DPS
Optimal impetus up set at : 659.823 DPS
Optimal impetus up set with manibozho hands at: 654.579 DPS

With impetus down:

Your set at : 574.686 DPS
Optimal with manibozho hands : 582.164 DPS

Your DPS is really low for a fully buffed MNK, something is amiss.

Geo, dia4, steps and angon/surge?

The reason Tantra body wins for Oats and loses for Pchan Claws when Impetus up is because Rigors hit the delay floor with capped gear and magic haste. Oatixur ends up 2% away from the floor.

If you have any additional haste (samba) then Tantra body should lose always and forever.

In that case, I suspect the above poster was also not factoring in the 1% haste from Ionis.

I only get Suji's set to win if the Mob has atleast 45% def down with the following buffs Berserk, Agressor/Focus, Impetus, Haste, Ionis, Marchx2, minuetx2, Madx2, Choas/Hunters, Tropor, Frailty

I only did like 6 or 7 runs on Tojil, but thats whats normally the buffs/debuffs are. There's no Dia IV, no Acc/att+ Geo, and tbh noone doing Steps (atleast not that i know, and even if someone does it i bet he wont keep it up fulltime) So in the End its 40% Def down with DiaII if it gets light shot to a Dia III (i doubt it will be.. seriously i dont think it will be Dia III unless the COR himself does Dia II and does lightshot, otherwise i am sure it get lost lol) and Angon. So maybe the DRG or whoever is /dnc and can do Box step but i dont really see usukane Set win overall to Whirlpool+ManiR15 (Head/Feet with maniR15 Hands).

Maybe someone can enlight me here, but the difference for usukane is so small, and need alot of work from others to win, id allways go with Whirlpool and Mani, even when it might be a little worse when REALLY all def down buffs are active. As soon as some of those drop, it will loose way much then it gains when the def down effects are all on.

Like with Bolster active i have Usu with aleast 31% def down on mob at 1003dps, Whirlpool at 1000dps
When its 30% Def down i have Usu 990 dps, Whirlpool 1000 dps.

Ecliptic +41 def down Usu 1003, Whirlpool 1000dps
Ecliptic +40 def down usu 993, Whirlpool 1000dps

No geo Boost Ja +44 def down Usu 1003, Whirlpool 1000
No geo Boost Ja +43 def down Usu 990, Whirlpool 1000

And so on, maybe i do something wrong, you have other buffs set up i dont have, or i dont know, if you drop more buffs, it wont get better for usu, just worse. (Like when berserk is down you need atleast 51% Def down from stuff not Geo) The geo buffs are count seperate, so i didnt add them to that def down value for Tojil, if thats right.

sry if this post is confusing, english is not my main language ><

I agree that the best set is the one with more wiggle room for buffs, all other things equal. The one I posted is +15 acc over the Tenryu+1 alternative so I figured that was a nice boon, but yeah Whirlpool Mask adds even more flexibility on that front.

And yes, I used 45% defense down.

Edit: Hitting Light Shot on top of Dia is standard play btw. Maybe not for the pugs that have been running since the +skill update, but we always used clear macros to make sure it happens.

actually, the Uk-cap is better then whirlpool, dunno what i change while trying out to get Whirlpool over Uk... I think i still hat def down at -10% at that point, my bad. As soon as Att is caped it jumps to 1004 dps, and when its for Usu and Uk-hat not capped Uk is still ahead


Edit: Yea i know its standard, but cor is mostly one of those jobs that get filled by a random shout person. Much like Geo and brd. Atleast on Cerberus there is no real linkshells doing Bosses, its mostly 10-15 static people (mostly from 1 linkshell or a group of ppl who do this stuff allways together) who shout the remaining spots.

Yeah my bad was late and i only checked after my eyeballing didnt seem to agree with it, jumped the gun a bit there -.-

Edit: ionis haste is considered as? Gear haste?

Yes.

I just want to clarify that the set I suggested is for capped situations and intended as an alternative for the Tenryu+1 set that Jinjo posted. ie, it's the highest DPS I could personally find with all buffs available that doesn't include Tenryu+1 (and ignoring Skirmish2 gear, which I haven't even looked at).

If we want to optimize for robustness (how well a set performs when some buffs are missing), or different tiers of accuracy, different tiers of defensiveness etc, those are all different things. It really comes down to picking a set of constraints that you feel are realistic for you and then optimizing for that.

Beside weapons, how do item level armor affect damage ? All I see is eva/meva for monk. Is it me or does the best output still comes from the same gear, and item level only matters defensive wise ?

...they added 17 Dex to mani hands, 11Str to mani body, 8dex to mani feet. Totally a defensive only adjustment

Are you sure this is accurate, because even when I turned on Haste Samba I still had Tantra +2 giving out better dps.

You are correct in that a lot of the added stats are defensive. They are trying to boost our iLevel. If we were lvl 115 instead of 99 we would have 100+ MEVA so we are getting ~ 20 on legs,head,hands,body,feet to compensate.

The other benefit is stats like DEX and STR but they have failed to give us much in the QTDA department so some old gear remains good/best.

I said "should" not "does." There is a subtle difference. The spreadsheet however is imperfect, and depending on your proficiciency with debugging it you will have better or worse results depending on what you try.

For example the othet day I turned on Fighter's roll and dps did not change (nor did my DA rate).

Part of the problem with mainstream spreadsheet usage is that people know how to use it but not how to understand it. You can put two sets on and see what gives you the bigger number but there are multiole considerations that make this sort of a well-intentioned mispractice.

1.) If you're not double checking the data tab to ensure the expwctwd changes have been made and to figure out specifically *why* the set is winning you set yourself up for premature conclusions. Does it win only for specific debuff levels or enemy stats? Most of the time aassuming critical levels of things you cannot personally control is only a good assumption some of the time (and the alternative is th a t it is never a good assumption). Additionaly, stats are mosy estimated so there is that too.

2.) Actual DPS measurements are virtually always not just lower than projected values but *very significantly* lower. There are myriad likely reasons for this but most aren't really worth discussion, bbecause people overestimate themselves and revert to "mb ppl shud sux less" type arguments while making the same errors everyone else us making. There are other factors unrelated to error, controller usage will reduce TP overages but may reduce responsiveness elsewhere.

You have to set your limitations though, for example my personal rule is that anything within 1% or so to be a wash and choose the more defensive option. In reality, this range should likely be extended further but the probability calculations to determine that are something that you would normally pay someone a 6 figure salary to do.

3.) The French Calculator effect must be considered. Pchan, while often heavily biased and extremely prone to making a total add of himself and therefore easy to write off and ridicule is actually fairly intelligent and often makes fair points that everyone ignores. One such issue is the problem of variance. Specifically though the problem is response interval variance (active variance) versus paddive variance. Thaumas coat, for example introduces a lot of variance in time to WS (variance in the time interval that the player is inert and not dependent on active input) and increases the probability of overages. These two factors combined may often cause Thaumas based sets to lose a significant portion of their benefits in practice compared to Tantra+2 which does not affect the playeerresponse interval as significantly and provides mostly passive (automatic) benefits. Generally, the less often a set is dependent on you actively doing something the better it will fare in practice, even for the most optimal players. If your character is being controlled by a computer program this is of course less of an issue. Sets are often close enough these days that missing a few 100%s because you looked at someone else's hp, or were asking for debuff removal, or there is a spider in the corner of your eye, or you tappes a macro too quickly or got ja delay cockblocked and a round slips through, or were inviting a BRD or got turned on by the mithra corsair, or you laffed at the BRD getting mayhem'd ... you get the idea ... can turn the tide from one set to another.

There are dumb consiserations too like set B's higher magic evasion making you 5% more likely to resist an additional effect stun but these are difficult to quantify and no one wants to talk about that. It's very likely that the meva on Adoulin gear is reducing the average amount of time you spend stunned by a significant amount and is worth using over an apparent slight dps leader. The same can be said if a piece reduces your KO probability, but suck less etc. (Extra points if you say it while foruming while waiting on weakness timer).

Anyway at this point DPS optimization is largely academic, in part because the most prevalent and accessible models are tangent snapshot based but largely because dps is so overkill at this point and efficiency is determined by other factors (run time, how many people afk to watch naughty nurses 8 between runs). Anyway, even if your entire alliance upgrades from set #3 to set #1 you are probably saving less than 2 minutes per run, and while there has been great historical debate on the value of five minutes, let's face it, we're jumping through hoops to get an extra five minutes of being a mandragora at this point so the best option is probably the one that's very close to the top and requires the least time investment. In almost all cases this will be Adoulin armor.

Sorry for the speech that didn't really answer your question but since I was espousing an expectation and not an observation earlier, I wanted to make additional comments in that light.

Word for word what I was thinking...

Yes but it still doesnt make delve armor relevant for tp except legs. Sounds like an attempt to convince people to farm their ***.

wtf do u tp in? <.<

I definitely thought the variability discussion a while back was interesting. Too bad those posts were full of stupid comments like "I'm the best" and no one seemed to take them seriously. In short duration but high stakes fights, you can definitely make a solid argument for low variability sets.

And regarding the spreadsheet stuff, I think that's an ongoing problem with these forums. We all have access to the spreadsheets and the tendency to post sets without caveats or explanations is a problem. The majority of posts end up being people trying to understand why they are getting different spreadsheet results rather than about the gear itself.

How can we solve this? If Mot were willing (and/or could find some motivated help?), I think if all of the spreadsheets were converted to a web app, we could all streamline our communication. Then we could "bookmark" spreadsheet configurations and link them around rather than spend our time debating over 1% differences due to buffs or setup differences or stale mob templates, etc. It should also reduce the support burden since different sheets could share code.

I think the harder and more useful discussion to have is around what the realistic circumstances that we should be optimizing for are, since everyone interested should be able to do the actual spreadsheeting themselves (or the webapp could solve for the best set, even). For example, Jinjo has broken down MNK currently into accuracy tiers with swaps for Impetus. In the past we've seen sets geared towards attack tiers, high crit rate, various levels of buffs active, atma, atmacites, etc. and all along the way someone using spreadsheets was deciding what the prototypical "buckets" are for us to gear towards. The WAR gear sets used to all be based on ADL/ADL buff configurations, for example, so those suggestions were ultimately applied across all content (I agreed with this choice at the time, fwiw).

Anyway, I also agree that if some collection of sets are all within <=1% of each other and we're gearing for alliance content, the choice should be the set that's the most robust with respect to losing buffs, has the least variance and offers the best defensive benefit.

How well is Aesetics fury performing with all the STR and critical hit rate gear now available vs Shijin?

He TPs in this, cause stacking DA/TA/QA is bad and so are gear swaps/anything else that might make you look like you may have a brain with at least a 3rd grade education
ItemSet 311214
Even though relic is garbage now