IiPunch - Monk Guide

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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-04-11 16:09:12
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SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Immediately is a stretch, the latency in an 18man dyna run is absolutely abysmal. Even with a bot reacting to the incoming packet, I'd be hard pressed to call it instant.

I still side with Afania here though, m.eva as a DPS increase is a pipe dream. If it is truly a DPS increase, your support line is horrible(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm).

Ok go fight Albumen in max tp set and meva tp set and say how it went.

IDK man, people usually do prep work before fighting and would prepare appropriately.

Because you're fighting Drowners and Noon Wrights most of the time doesn't mean you use Necrophage Oil all the time.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-11 16:31:37
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Leviathan.Andret said: »
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Immediately is a stretch, the latency in an 18man dyna run is absolutely abysmal. Even with a bot reacting to the incoming packet, I'd be hard pressed to call it instant.

I still side with Afania here though, m.eva as a DPS increase is a pipe dream. If it is truly a DPS increase, your support line is horrible(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm).

Ok go fight Albumen in max tp set and meva tp set and say how it went.

IDK man, people usually do prep work before fighting and would prepare appropriately.

Because you're fighting Drowners and Noon Wrights most of the time doesn't mean you use Necrophage Oil all the time.

The difference between 4/5 Kenda +1 (I assume Bhikku+1 and Impetus) and AF+3 feet, Relic+3 legs, Adhemar +1 gloves and helm is 4% with uncapped attack.

Mix of malignance and Kenda with capped attack is 1% behind.

The difference in meva is 199 or more.
Thats almost BoGEa Geo Attunement.

The differenc ein meva is huge. The difference in dps is minimal. The minimal amount of debuffs you need to get hit with to make meva set higher DPS is very small and Thorny can say whatever about support line, but none beside career WHM (or good bot) with 100% preparation to specific fight wont be fast enough to not hit that minimal amount of delay to make debuffs take away that 1-4% dps advantage of max dps set. Not to mention fights with stun/amnesia/dispel/charm/terror/sleep(with spread party) when WHM wont be able to help.

"(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm)." statement is obviously super misleading. With only 1-4% dps advantage ANY amount of amnesia will pretty much drop your DPS below meva tp set.

You can believe whatever you want tho.

EDIT: If you need more recent example of enemy that makes meva set shine DPS wise, it would be Mimic in Odyssey.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-04-11 16:46:51
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SimonSes said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Immediately is a stretch, the latency in an 18man dyna run is absolutely abysmal. Even with a bot reacting to the incoming packet, I'd be hard pressed to call it instant.

I still side with Afania here though, m.eva as a DPS increase is a pipe dream. If it is truly a DPS increase, your support line is horrible(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm).

Ok go fight Albumen in max tp set and meva tp set and say how it went.

IDK man, people usually do prep work before fighting and would prepare appropriately.

Because you're fighting Drowners and Noon Wrights most of the time doesn't mean you use Necrophage Oil all the time.

The difference between 4/5 Kenda +1 (I assume Bhikku+1 and Impetus) and AF+3 feet, Relic+3 legs, Adhemar +1 gloves and helm is 4% with uncapped attack.

Mix of malignance and Kenda with capped attack is 1% behind.

The difference in meva is 199 or more.
Thats almost BoGEa Geo Attunement.

The differenc ein meva is huge. The difference in dps is minimal. The minimal amount of debuffs you need to get hit with to make meva set higher DPS is very small and Thorny can say whatever about support line, but none beside career WHM (or good bot) with 100% preparation to specific fight wont be fast enough to not hit that minimal amount of delay to make debuffs take away that 1-4% dps advantage of max dps set. Not to mention fights with stun/amnesia/dispel/charm/terror/sleep(with spread party) when WHM wont be able to help.

"(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm)." statement is obviously super misleading. With only 1-4% dps advantage ANY amount of amnesia will pretty much drop your DPS below meva tp set.

You can believe whatever you want tho.

I think the point isn't that you shouldn't wear M.Eva set when you need it but rather wearing a mid-grade M.Eva. set as your standard TP set because you "might" get debuff on random fights.
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2020-04-11 16:48:03
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SimonSes said: »
Ok go fight Albumen in max tp set and meva tp set and say how it went.

EDIT: Not to mention that meva tp set is only 1% behind max tp set if you cap attack (because of PDL)

You're moving the goalposts. Talk was of impetus body or not, and 80 m.eva isn't make or break with how much you already have on malignance. Nor is it only a 4% change in damage.

SimonSes said: »
"(or maybe vs mob with frequent long amnesia.. none come to mind atm)." statement is obviously super misleading. With only 1-4% dps advantage ANY amount of amnesia will pretty much drop your DPS below meva tp set.

This is assuming the amnesia is guaranteed to land with m.eva set, and guaranteed to miss in other set. In reality, if amnesia is a likely problem you're going to have barfira, baramnesra, maybe even carols(when they were still hard, it was pretty typical to do fire carols for albumen.. i had the first melee albumen win and put it in the writeup). Capped m.eva is capped m.eva, and bhikku cyclas is one of, if not the single biggest, damage gains a melee gets out of one piece of armor.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-11 16:50:46
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Leviathan.Andret said: »
I think the point isn't that you shouldn't wear M.Eva set when you need it but rather wearing a mid-grade M.Eva. set as your standard TP set because you "might" get debuff on random fights.

What? None said to use it in fights when you cant get hit by any debuffs (tho with only 1-4% behind you could be lazy like that). I said in very first post, that I have max tp set toggle for fights when I know meva wont help at all.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-11 16:53:53
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
You're moving the goalposts. Talk was of impetus body or not, and 80 m.eva isn't make or break with how much you already have on malignance. Nor is it only a 4% change in damage.

Not sure how you get Bhikku +1 mixed in that, but I never said to drop it for Impetus. I can find 10 different post of mine to support that. So it's not a changed goalposts, but you simply got confused.

Even the post I commented on and quoted very specifically said about this

Valefor.Yandaime said: »
It was already discussed at length but the consensus is that for pure DPS, swapping the legs and feet is better during Footwork. But again, that’s purely a DPS Standpoint, many of us, myself included, prefer keeping Kenda/Malignance regardless of stance with the only actual swap being Empy body because of the high TP gains and very high MEVA.
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2020-04-11 16:57:22
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Seems there were 2 seperate arguments on the last page and I did get confused. I'd never give up impetus body, but the other swaps are pretty silly to worry about since Malignance is great on it's own accord. I'll leave you to the pissing match.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-04-11 17:14:42
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So, what is the difference in white damage in using a set (any set) with impetus up and body, and impetus up and any other meva body (kendatsuba+1/malignance). Is the difference really that significant for melee hits? I'm asking for numbers specifically. I kind of flip flop between both kinds of sets situation depending, but I don't really know how much damage im losing not tping in bhikku, or how beneficial the alternatives are, difference-wise. would like to know
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By SimonSes 2020-04-11 17:32:50
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
So, what is the difference in white damage in using a set (any set) with impetus up and body, and impetus up and any other meva body (kendatsuba+1/malignance). Is the difference really that significant for melee hits? I'm asking for numbers specifically. I kind of flip flop between both kinds of sets situation depending, but I don't really know how much damage im losing not tping in bhikku, or how beneficial the alternatives are, difference-wise. would like to know

So full Kenda+1 vs 4/5 Kenda+1 with Bhikku yes?

Bhikku is around 27.5% ahead in melee DPS and around 7% ahead in total DPS assuming you use it for WS. That 2nd number assuming +81 stp Samurai roll and WSing asap, so it would be obviously higher if you use less store tp and hold TP (generally when % of your white damage in total damage will be higher).
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-04-11 17:41:26
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SimonSes said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
I think the point isn't that you shouldn't wear M.Eva set when you need it but rather wearing a mid-grade M.Eva. set as your standard TP set because you "might" get debuff on random fights.

What? None said to use it in fights when you cant get hit by any debuffs (tho with only 1-4% behind you could be lazy like that). I said in very first post, that I have max tp set toggle for fights when I know meva wont help at all.

Then isn't normal to wear M.Eva. set when you need to avoid debuffs?

I don't get why you guys are arguing. If the mob is going to throw crazy debuffs at you then you would have to really beef up your M.Eva with Brd and Whm and a whole M.Eva. set locked in place.

If the mobs doesn't or when you don't have enough support to make M.Eva. matter then probably stick to normal TP set.
 Asura.Botosi
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By Asura.Botosi 2020-04-13 23:04:38
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So I'm currently gearing up MNK. I have Malignance Boots if I ever need Acc/Hybrid, but I was curious if I'd even need Ken. Boots +1 (SU3+1) since I have these Herculean Boots:

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By SimonSes 2020-04-14 03:35:57
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Asura.Botosi said: »
So I'm currently gearing up MNK. I have Malignance Boots if I ever need Acc/Hybrid, but I was curious if I'd even need Ken. Boots +1 (SU3+1) since I have these Herculean Boots:


Kendatsuba feet +1 still has big stats advantage +4 STR, +20 DEX, +11 VIT so even if those Herc looks great for low meva/acc TP set, Kenda should still pull ahead for Raging Fists and be even for Howling Fists (and when its even you probably want to use Kenda for meva during WS) and obviously Kenda is also bis for Shijin.
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By Pantafernando 2020-04-14 03:43:45
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Sup

So I restarted to gear my old oat MNKs mules, wondering whats current go-to WS sequences, either for solo DD and zerg fights.

I guess weve come a long way since VS spam, isnt it?
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By Phoenix.Turtlevax 2020-04-14 03:54:15
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I've been following the advice posted back on Page 292, with the added part from somewhere in the last 10-15 pages that you want to use Howling Fist when pdif is not capped, and Raging Fists when capped I think?

If someone has any thoughts I'd love to hear it.
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 Shiva.Applesmash
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By Shiva.Applesmash 2020-04-14 03:56:20
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I like to use Shijin > VS > VS when Impetus is up.

My go-to is usually Asuran > VS > Shijin > VS for Radiance with Godhands.

RF > Asuran > RF > x2 VS works too.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-14 04:33:27
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My favourite with Godhands is
Shjin > TK > Shijin x3

In delve when you have NM + trash
Spinning x2 > Vsmite x2

Most used with Veret and Impetus up
Shijin > 2x Vsmite

Generally MNK has massive pool of self skillchain combinations that can create lv1 skillchains and then massive pools of combination that can push that to Fusion/Fragmentation/Light/Radiance.

In theory you can even do silly stuff like:
Tornado x3 > One Inch Punch > Dragon Kick/Vsmite > Shijin/Ascetic/Final > Shijin(Godhands)/Final/Vsmite for 7 step doubleLight/Radiance
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-04-14 06:21:31
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SimonSes said: »
In theory you can even do silly stuff like:
Tornado x3 > One Inch Punch > Dragon Kick/Vsmite > Shijin/Ascetic/Final > Shijin(Godhands)/Final/Vsmite for 7 step doubleLight/Radiance

With 2 MNKs definitely, I'm not so sure about doing it Solo though. I was having difficulty the 6-step objective in Omen even bare-handed with capped Magic Haste and SAM Roll from Alt and capped Acc from BRD Songs. When it comes to Skillchaining, MNK feels slow sometimes. Can handle a 4-step just fine but 5 6 and 7? idk.

To be fair, I haven't tried again since omen, maybe I was messing up somewhere or something. Idk.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-14 06:32:27
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Personally I havent tried 6 step, but I was able to do 5 step back to back on Kei with cc 11 regal sam roll.
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 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-04-14 08:35:09
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I can't help it if I whiff my Fudo. :(
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 Asura.Trumpet
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By Asura.Trumpet 2020-04-21 14:13:53
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Speaking of TP gearing, there are mainly two approaches who can achieve pretty similar results, it kinda depends on your preference, your augments etc.

Approach 1 - Multiattack: Perf Samnuha Tights, Herc with godly augments, Kendatsuba+1 for the Legs slot. For the Feet slot instead Herc with godly augs, Kendatsuba+1.

Approach 2 - Kick attack: Bhikku+1 or Relic+3 for the legs slot, Anchorite+3 for the feet slot.


Damage wise they can produce similar results but different pros and cons. Kendatsuba offers the additional advantage of a lot of magic evasion.
If you're way above att cap, Malignance becomes an interesting option for both foot and legs slot, and it also gives a *** of Magic Evasion.

Does mixing the two approaches work at all? I'm only just about to pick up godhands and def not R15, still using the old nodowa instead of JSE neck since my monk hasn't seen inside of dyna yet, but AF feet & empy legs are easily attainable. Or since I can't quite go all in on kick attack style, should I stick to samnuha+herc/kenda?

Ignoring defense stats for this
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By Taint 2020-04-21 14:22:17
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Asura.Trumpet said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Speaking of TP gearing, there are mainly two approaches who can achieve pretty similar results, it kinda depends on your preference, your augments etc.

Approach 1 - Multiattack: Perf Samnuha Tights, Herc with godly augments, Kendatsuba+1 for the Legs slot. For the Feet slot instead Herc with godly augs, Kendatsuba+1.

Approach 2 - Kick attack: Bhikku+1 or Relic+3 for the legs slot, Anchorite+3 for the feet slot.


Damage wise they can produce similar results but different pros and cons. Kendatsuba offers the additional advantage of a lot of magic evasion.
If you're way above att cap, Malignance becomes an interesting option for both foot and legs slot, and it also gives a *** of Magic Evasion.

Does mixing the two approaches work at all? I'm only just about to pick up godhands and def not R15, still using the old nodowa instead of JSE neck since my monk hasn't seen inside of dyna yet, but AF feet & empy legs are easily attainable. Or since I can't quite go all in on kick attack style, should I stick to samnuha+herc/kenda?

Ignoring defense stats for this

You can mix and match. They are all very similar in practice. I'm using Kenda Feet and Relic Legs atm since I don't feel like card farming on MNK.
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 Asura.Trumpet
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By Asura.Trumpet 2020-04-21 14:54:20
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Exactly what I needed to know, thanks :D
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-21 16:26:45
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You can totally mix & match of course.
How effective your mix will be compared to the two "pure" approaches, heh, who can say, depends on the mix.
You'd have to test it a bit around with a spreadsheet, a sim, a parser etc.

In general though yes, it's totally doable and I'd dare to say the final difference probably won't really be that "huge".

Also the difference between R1 and R15 Godhands is not really that huge, discarding uncapped acc situations, so don't worry too much about it.
Godhands R1 is pretty solid!
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By GwenStacy 2020-05-02 04:46:13
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any updated mnk sets i can refer to?
 Odin.Archaide
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By Odin.Archaide 2020-05-02 06:33:49
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GwenStacy said: »
any updated mnk sets i can refer to?

These sets are decent
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Community_Monk_Guide
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-05-02 12:42:39
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Where does Aurgelmir Orb +1 stand? Do people use it or just not?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-05-02 13:57:35
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BIS tp piece. Don't think it beats Knobkierrie for WS
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-05-02 14:15:36
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
BIS tp piece. Don't think it beats Knobkierrie for WS
We need to wait for SimonSes and his awesome Spreadsheet, but I'm pretty confident it beats Knobkierrie at least for Raging Fists and Howling Fist.
Of course it does at capped att, but I'm talking at uncapped att.
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