IiPunch - Monk Guide

Someone kinda opened my eyes a few weeks ago (was it you? Or Eiryl? or someone else?) making me notice something quite interesting about PDL.
We were discussing about swapping to PDL gear like neck and Malignance etc.

Thing is that realistically before even just the neck's PDL becomes relevant, you need a LOT of attack over the cap because, *drum roll*, you already have PDL job trait natively on MNK, don't remember how much but you have like tier 3 of that?

So first you need:
1) to reach the cap
2) to surpass that cap by the amount necessary to make use of the job trait PDL
3) to surpass that even more to make use of the Neck's PDL

I mean point 1) is already relevant since realistically it's not gonna be a thing EVERY time or, at least, not as much as the majority of people assume it to be.
Then you need the rest.
Given this perspective with current game meta I'd say it's not very realistic to expect to make use of Malignance's PDL for the majority of situations (taking for granted Neck before Malignance, of course)

Both Eiryl and I have been repeating the Attack cap/PDL thing ad nauseam across several threads. It's really not as easy to fully cap it out as people think as necks/Malignance are multipliers to the traits.

But I'm tired of asking people whether they're completely sure they're fully Attack capped or not, so I just roll with it now.

This is something I'll discuss in a Gameplay Tips video. Capping PDIF also depends on what you're fighting, like what traits and defensive moves does what you're fighting have.

Idris Geo-Frailty with Bolster. Entrust Indi-Fury.
Soul Voice Honor March and Minuet V.
Dia III (Dia II and Light Shot).
Self-buffs (Berserk, Footwork, Last Resort etc).

In my experience, this will get you there on most endgame content but for things in Dynamis Wave 3 you're probably going to need to add Chaos Roll.

Don't forget Smite, I'm not sure which order it takes in the final attack calculation formula, but it multiplies the static values of +att.

What you said is a lot of stuff though Rua.
Do we truly want to assume for every player to always have the buffs you listed in every bloody fight we want to take into consideration, for the whole duration of the fight?

That's a pretty bold assumption if you ask me.
And even if that makes you reach the cap, you need 30% above that cap to fully use the PDL from job traits.
Then and only then if you add additional attack then the 10% PDL on the neck will start to be relevant.

Another aspect that often gets underestimated is activation time guys.
For buffs that land and stay on players there is no such issue, but for GEO debuffs that land on targets, we DO have this issue.

I'm sure a lot of people often forget to consider that Geomancer debuffing bubbles have 2-3 seconds of activation time.
That means that after the GEO enters into the target's enmity list, it takes 2-3 seconds for the debuff to apply to the target.

Let's take into consideration Divergence Dynamis, it's an event where you're constantly moving between pulls and you need to target each monster.
You need to following pre-requirements:

1) The targets have to be within the bubble's range (sometimes players love to fight monsters outside of the bubble, especially mage or ranger targets)
2) The GEO has to be into the target's enmity list (i.e. he needs to have performed a direct action on them, or performed a support action on a player who is already in the list, for instance a BLM or a BRD who slept them or a tank who tagged them)
3) 2-3 seconds need to have passed

Without these requirements, frailty will not be calculated into the damage formula for players hitting those targets.
Especially Trash in Wave1 and I'd dare to say a lot of trash i Wave2 as well, dies before all those 3 requirements are met, for the rest you have a certain amount of seconds (which converts into a certain amount of the target's health) where the damage players deal will not receive the benefit of Frailty.
Now multiply this logic for 2 hours and a % of that run will be without Frailty for those players dealing damage.


It's just like that.
You have human reaction times. The GEO need to perform an action and react to a pull, that takes 0.5 seconds? (and let's ignore targets which are out of range from your sleepga/dispelga if you decide to take the route of directly tagging targets)

Plus often the GEO needs to wait a bit. If you're too fast in tagging (direct action) the GEO might die.
If you're too fast in supporting (indirect action) you will not be into the enmity list for the targets.
Then you have casting time, that's like at least 1 second?
Then you have the 2-3 seconds necessary for the debuff bubble to apply.


This might seem like something irrelevant but I think it's quite relevant for trash, which represents a large part of what you do in Divergence.
If you want to maximize your performance by deciding how to assemble your WS and TP sets I don't think you can ignore all of this, for a 2hr event it's not irrelevant at all, imho.


Then there is also personal alliance setup, which is different for each of us so YMMV, but for instance at least in Divergence the majority of times we don't usually have a GEO in each of the DD pt, normally the GEO is outside tagging stuff with Frailty or Malaise or whatever you need, which means no Fury for the DDs.
Normally we have a BRD, a COR, a healer and then 3+ DDs for instance.
I dunno, I guess other people run with 2 DDs in each pt, or maybe they have a plethora of BRD and COR mules which land buffs in each pt every X minutes and then drop the pt? I guess?
I dunno we normally go with real players, not mules.

1hr buffs are for zerg scenarios only. You won't have that fulltime if you are spamming Ambu/HTBFs or doing Dyna-D. Not to mention GEO spells are nerfed by up to -75% on most new content.

To gear around the assumption of having that all the time isn't a good idea. A (full) dispel also completely messes you up.

Regardless, a DA cape will still beat a WSD cape whether you have Fighter's Roll or not, as Eiryl and I have mentioned on the previous page.


At least in Ambu and there's full party hate, so the GEO always has Enmity and doesn't need to tag mobs every time. But it's just a silver lining due to bubble nerfs.

Edit: Guess I was misinformed about Dyna-D.

There is no alliance hate in Divergence afaik.
It is indeed a thing in Ambu and every legion zone, in Vagary etc.

In Divergence you need to tag like in "regular" zones.
The only strange thing concerning enmity in Divergence is in Wave3 if someone touches an enemy luopan. Have you ever done that? Pretty funny lol, try it! XD
Other than that, afaik, enmity is regular and you need to perform a direct or indirect action.

If this wasn't the case for instance after a wipe monsters would go after every member alive of the alliance, think about a mule or a friend you left at the entrance of the zone to leech a win.
Instead this doesn't happen, it's because they are not in the target's enmity list, because Divergence follows the "regular" rules of enmity and not the "special" ones we've seen in some zones.


Edit:
Regardless of the simple example I gave, the difference between having or not having Idris Frailty up is quite evident, not so much in Wave1 maybe, but in Wave2 you can CLEARLY see the difference in damage and in how much time it takes you to kill trash and especially red eyes NMs.

Personally, I would have 1 DA Str cape and 1 Store TP Dex cape and call it a day.

As for PDL I would say it's something I would just use a special set for it like accuracy set or hundred fists set. Sometimes using it but most of the time just use my normal one-size-fits-all set.

Most of the time I don't ga e the buffs to reach capped attack to utilize the PDL if I did then I would probably sub DRG or something because I would have a ton of buffs that I wouldn't need berserk or that 10% DA.

Sechs is right. I feel sorry for groups that have GEO/s not knowing that XD

The truth is, it's stupid to gear only for full buffs, but it's also stupid to gear only for being underbuffed. You simply should make few setups and use it whenever you need. You can also be lazy and make one universal set and just ignore the fact that its not optimal in every scenario. You can also focus more on optimal utility instead of optimal dps. I use this:

ItemSet 368631
af+3 feet for Footwork
Bhikku/Kendatsuba body for Impetus up/down
My hybrid set is just D ring and Malignance body on top of that


Because it caps my Subtle blow, has high meva and -DT and it's at worst <10% away from any optimal full dps setup you can create for any pdif.

I think this is totally viable, especially for jobs you deem not being your "primary" focus.
I mean, most people already do that without knowing, when they gear expecting to always be at capped buffs, you're doing the same thing: creating a single set thinking it will work the best all of the time lol.

Accepting a compromise and creating a set that takes into consideration some buffs but not completely capped is a perfectly acceptable and efficient compromise.
Afterall the majority of time this is the type of situation many of us will play that job in, probably.

I think they key part here is being "aware" that all these factors are at play, and then make your own decision in light of that.
Whatever you choose, as long as you know how things work and why you're making that choice, I think it's gonna be fine.

Just want to point out that this set is very good if you are bent on using Counterstance. Despite generally being a death wish, with the extra 450 HP + Mantra, it's a little easier to use now. You can drop counter augment on cape in favor of PDT-10%, and it over caps DT & caps Counter at 80%. If you're using Sagitta, even better. You can drop Defending Ring for Gere, so retain a higher TA rate. The set above only has 8% TA, which is a big dps loss. But it does have a huge increase in Counter damage. Very nice set.

If you aren't interested in using Counterstance (I'm usually not), you don't really need to gear for DT in the set like you do with the above, so you have a little bit more leeway. Here's another alternative if you have a R15 Spharai.

ItemSet 360121

I think there's a LOT of flexibility now with Malignance gear, and I am going to mesh a bit from your set into mine to make one all-purpose Counter set. I hate using Counterstance, especially on strong targets. Malignance really opened up a few alternatives counter builds. I wish they would make more gear like Ta'lab trousers, where it combines MA with Counter, so we could have more high dps counter sets. Good stuff.

How do I know if I’m Attack capped?

Experience.
Basically, Chaos + Frailty will cap you out for almost all content except Reisen T4s, WoC, Kirin, Dyna D Wave 2-3 and Master trials.

To cap for those you pretty much require BoG + EA or Bolster Frailty. due to either Geo nerfs, or the steep Defense that the enemies have.

Also you can also check your melee damage if you've played on a job long enough.
For example, I can guarantee I am attack capped when my melee swings do 1150-1200+ per hit on RUN. DRKs will normally hit for much higher.

However, using Weaponskills like Resolution you want to be over attack capped.

If you're unsure, just assume you're not on most relevant content unless you're getting the full gamut of buffs.

If your really pushing counter to its 80 cap without counterstance, I'm assuming your going to be face tanking the mob and also want at least some DT.
You are going to lose a significant amount of dps, best I could come up with was 71% (76% if you want to use Rao+1 hands)

ItemSet 369304

+10 Counter on Cape
Rao Kabuto +1: Path D
71% Counter Rate, -30%DT

Uhm... No dia? No Honor March?
What type of Frailty, are we talking Dunna? JSE+2? Idris?
What sort of Chaos roll?
Which job? Is Berserk up? How many tiers of Smite? How much +attack from gear?

Don't wanna sound mean but I think you're a bit oversimplifying things °--°

You would be simply mind blown if you knew the amount of actual time even Dia was not (actively) applied. That would be an incredible stat to see.

or the amount of times GEO frail wasn't actually affecting the mob(s)

not really needed for the content that chaos + frailty cap, but ofc use them for harder content, but even then don't really cap as much as you'd like.

I didn't include dia because I know a lot of people who don't dia mob... even on RDM.
And the attack from bard songs sometimes vary, so didn't include since won't always be available, aren't needed on easy content, but are only gonna cap you on harder content with Soul Voice.

And I meant Regal rolls + Idris. Sorry I forgot to mention them.
Mostly DD jobs in general without JAs up.

But no, on the content I mentioned you will be attack capped, it really is that simple to cap attack. Just not for the harder content.

The thing is, not really. Counterstance is a -50% Defense penalty, which is absurdly high on anything that matters. 50% DT is nice, but you actually still come out ahead defensively (and possibly offensively; you retain good rings and dd hands/feet, and you can even drop Cryptic for Telos; 3% wont matter much) with the set above I posted, because you retain all of your defense and you still sport 15% PDT. You could push that value to 30% if you really want by swapping out the DD rings for Defending/Patricius, but you're still better off defensively with no DT when counterstance is down, than you are with counterstance and 50% DT.

Using a Counter build is always a DPS loss. You don't really want to make it worse by taking a huge defense penalty alongside it. Or at least I'm not a fan of it. I think it would be practical, if you can fit it around a Spharai you already have, to build a high counter build that doesn't use Counterstance vs using a Counter+DT build with it, but that's just me.

I don't think people realize how bad of an idea using counterstance is. Go try Alexander on Normal and use Counterstance, and see how badly he punishes you. Go get Head Butt(ed) by a Transcended mandragora or attacked by a Goblin Rush in Dynamis with Counterstance up. It's painful. Can't get caught in a WS set or you're done. It's juts not a safe and practical strategy to employ unless you have no other option, or have some defensive buffs to accommodate the difference.

Not that I'm expecting a Monk to use Spharai over Verethragna, but it's something to keep in mind. You can hit reasonably High counter values without punishing yourself that much, while also keeping a moderate amount of dps and a small amount of dt. You can't prioritize all of the stats though.

edit: I don't think Counterstance is used by players the way it was intended. If you're going with a monk tank, it would be good to give him a couple of defensive buffs to offset the defense loss, and he could use a more offensive oriented/hybrid set to retain hate. Players tend to do the opposite though: use full dt/counter (no dt in their ws sets, so you will get killed) and load up on offensive buffs. Its a risky maneuver.

Tbh the only practical use Counterstance has is for soloing Glassy Gorger lmao. That -50% def when absorbed really helps. Providing you remove it asap after he absorbs it.
Aside from that it's never needed and as Buukki said, too punishing for a result which can be achieved very easily and safer.

This set does not utilize counterstance. (>·>)

MNK/blu counterstance with Cocoon :)

You're dead if he does this and you're solo. He'll counter 6 of your attacks in a row and you'll drop like a fly. Only way this works is if you have a trust tank who is taking those punches to the face, but they can't keep hate off you anyways.

edit: if you want a caped counter set that is fine. If you want a hybrid set of counter, dt etc, fine. You will make sacrifices regardless. It's just a matter of how much you'd be willing to sacrifice. Is all I am saying

I've never noticed him countering me tbh, I do this a lot and works out ok. Doesn't appear in log, if it does, I've honestly never seen it.
The only thing I avoid on him is Hundred Fists.

I have when I was tanking on Ninja. MNK used it, and he ripped through my shadows because NIN attacks 2-6x per round and fast. I can't imagine Monk not getting countered and surviving vs Gorger if he absorbs Counterstance.

That is weird, unless counterstance is actually an ability that raises counter by 45% but doesn't give counter when you natively doesn't have it?

I'm honestly legit serious lol, I've never seen in my log that Gorger has countered me when it's used.

Are you sure it wasn't cos Gorger was haste capped?

I'll try test sometime when I go into Omen, but if anyone else can test and see quicker, that'd be cool.

Haste has nothing to do with being attacked 5 times in one round, and the log specifically says "x's attack was countered by y, but a shadow absorbs the attack". I'm not going to waste a canteen for a 33% chance at testing this, but he can 100% absorb Counterstance and 100% get the full effect of it and destroy you with it. It's the same concept of souleater in a different way.

Can't remember if it was Rua or Mcpullish in my party when he used it, but I was casting shadows every few seconds because I couldn't keep up with how many times he countered my own attacks.

Is there something in like a filter which blocks it?
I've never seen a counter from him before, not sure if my settings are blocking it?
Even if he can absorb the effect, I've not had any issue with it using trust buffs.