IiPunch - Monk Guide

A good CP party can increase their net damage significantly by including a BLM and sacrificing fury for malaise. A MNK using kendatsuba over a mixed set loses essentially nothing from this. Thus, since you're fixated on the single situation(CP party), surely we should look at the best case scenario for a CP party..?

As far as making aeonic NMs as trivial as CP mobs, you would need no less than 3 idrises and a REA brd to cap accuracy on an aeonic mob. The limit of 12 rolls/songs is also still a concern. If you are using 4 carols, 4 rolls, honor march and blade madrigal as givens, that only leaves 2 buffs open. This leaves you choosing between capping pdif after bolster wears and getting a madrigal that the other DD can avoid for a negligible dps loss. This would increases your effective time from 3.5min to 6-8 depending on your buffers. If you're wasting a COR roll on hunters, or a GEO buff on precision that wouldn't otherwise be needed, you're even worse off.

A potential case can be made for your set as an optimal condition set, but once you lose any buff you're going to be better off in kendatsuba. The bottom line is that you're fixating on a single result because it's the result you want. It's not realistic, and despite your best attempts to try to defend it, the times when it can be made to win provide a very slight margin in it's favor.
The times when it loses, it is significantly behind, before even considering all the defensive boosts. If you only make one of the sets, kendatsuba is the correct choice.

Gear selection has a large role in defining what a job is capable of. It's pretty silly to try and exclude that when discussing.

I'm not saying we should exclude it, I'm saying it's not what DirectX asked.

If you need reference from other than myself...
Try here.

DHO GATES
Level 128-130, beyond the Col. Reive in the southern part of map 1
- Jagils
- Triple Bats
- Craklaws
- Crabs
Accuracy for 95% Hit Rate: 1250

Starting at 1125 accuracy without buffs or food, hitting 1250 is easy.
If we want to get fancy, Focus, even without any JSE swaps on activation, gives +40 accuracy (with max job points). When Focus is down, Aggressor could be used, which gives 25 accuracy.

So, before BRD songs and food, just counting JAs the MNK could control, accuracy in my ideal set would never dip below 1150.
It only needs 100 more to cap on Apex Crabs, which BRD songs would achieve on their own. The MNK in this situation would be free to eat anything it wanted.

Have I shown enough?

We are trying to build a test for two or three different gear sets, not trying to build an ideal CP party. In common between these two goals is only that Apex Crabs are involved. Stop trying to move the goal posts.

We didn't agree to test party CP gain rate. We agreed to test set DPS. So we could nail down exactly how much more DPS my proposed set would net.
So MBing makes no sense. Test the top potential of the set with approriate buffs or go home.

I can go ahead and say your set is top DPS when you have capped attack, capped accuracy, no concern for defensive stats. I don't even need to run a simulation to say that.

Gear selection has a large role in defining what a job is capable of. It's pretty silly to try and exclude that when discussing.

It is though, because you can't even ask that without the context of gear.

Two, don't justify your skewed results by changing the subject of the test

hich is what setting a baseline is all about. As targets' abilities/characteristics change, adjust the set as needed.

Thus, since you're fixated on the single situation(CP party), surely we should look at the best case scenario for a CP party..?

Yes, because Foil works amazingly on TP moves and can be kept up full time, if needed. It is definitely better than Perfect Counter.

Inquartata works regardless of ilvl and accuracy. Counter suffers an accuracy check and caps out at 95% accuracy to boot. Battuta is crazy amazing.

Thus, since you're fixated on the single situation(CP party), surely we should look at the best case scenario for a CP party..?

Because the stats for the monsters are they are high enough level to actually matter. This makes them good targets for DPS math and a starting point for optimizations.

Why CP mobs? Well, for example, Apex Crabs range in level from 128 to 130. We know their stats, so it is easy to build tests around them.

Knowing their level allows you to make comparisons to other events, like Ambuscade, whose targets change monthly. It won't line up perfectly, as some targets will have terrible defense but high evasion, etc.
But it gives a frame to build from since we know the general ilvl of the battle when selecting it.

Well, from a commonly accepted "Best DPS" set, you can then make choices to fit your varying needs.

Is more Accuracy needed/Dispel possible? Swap in the following order a different earring/ammo/legs/hands/head/feet.

Is magic evasion truly important for this fight? Swap in different items in terms of minimal loss/maximum gain. This might put you in 5/5 ken. gear, but it isn't a foregone conclusion.

A starting point is of utmost importance.
The goal is to buff/debuff every mob down to the lowest difficulty possible. If you never see a time when your targets are crushed that low, then certainly never wear the proposed set in full. Gear to where your performance is maximized.

Come the update, maybe MNK will inherently be given more of all that it is lacking. The proposed set might apply to more of the content you experience, then. Or it might not. Things could radically change.
But we've got this starting point for today and to use as comparison for tomorrow. That is very valuable.

Wut? He asked: "Does a RUN in DD gear take less damage than another non-tank DD?"

It was a generic and simple question. Either you want to be anal about it and say "it's to generic to give an accurate answer!" or you try to give a generic answer, period.

Talking about SAM/MNK/NIN =/= "generic non tank-dd" because it doesn't take into account DRG, DRK, WAR, DNC and BLU (and I'm leaving outside the other jobs for pretty clear reasons)
Also I'm not even sure if SAM and NIN can afford to go 4/5 on Kendatsuba (or more) without any noticeable DPS loss. MNK can, according to Pchan at least.

Kendatsuba is a recent addition, if anything it helped those 3 jobs reach levels that were previously exclusive to RUN only, and RUN can still reach similar (if not arguably better, under some circumstances) levels of status resistance even without any specific (and very expensive!) equipment.

I call that a noticeable difference and I think it's closer to answer what DirectX originally asked.



So tl;dr yes, RUN has tipically better defensive edge than most DD jobs, even when equipping full DD gear and not the tank stuff.

Foil is '>80' evasion

4/5 Kendatsuba SAM has 221 more magic evasion from gear than my best RUN DPS set.

Also, the 1 elemental resistance = 1 magic evasion has not been proven anywhere to my knowledge.

I can't find any documented testing on foil, and the bg-wiki page says it gives >80 evasion. To be clear, I'm not saying to use MNKs instead of RUNs, because the damage difference is absolutely obscene. I'm saying that they are pretty close to the same level of survivability, provided a WHM is present and both are trying to do their max damage.

you can wear 4/5 kendatsuba on SAM for a very minor hit in DPS which is offset by the fact that ***won't land on you nearly as frequently any more

If we wanna talk about survivability though, BLU has a lot of defensive tools which do not come at the cost of DPS as well, compared to most other DDs which have to either pick defensive stances or hybrid/DT gear.

you can wear 4/5 kendatsuba on SAM for a very minor hit in DPS which is offset by the fact that ***won't land on you nearly as frequently any more

They cost points and cast time; nothing is completely free.

Not very fair to compare a job with a semihybrid setup vs another one using a full DD one.

It's like "hey! my PUP in 50% DT gear takes less damage than your dualwielding PLD using full DD gear!"


...in theory xD lol
In reality RUN doesn't have many (any?) pieces which offer that amount of meva while ALSO offering very high DPS potential, like Kendatsuba.
So of course yeah, that's a clear pro for those 3 DD jobs.
But using this to say that the sentence "RUN has overall better defensive potential than most non-tank DD jobs" is false, is a stretch imho.
(which, again, was the initial point that started this sub-discussion)