For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

I'm a rebel, I still offhand a Sandung.

No. It's not. Comments like these are usually the same people falling behind or not gear swapping and just thinking they are good because they beat the other people playing just as crappy.

The spreadsheets have a plethora of accuracy and different situations you can fine tune to definitely gear yourself based off of and can help do a significant amount of testing for certain aspects of the game (for example max rudras dmg) without having to actually go test it. It saves a significant amount of time and is normally accurate. There has been some off occasions, but to tout to go play the game and imply to basically ignore spreadsheets is completely and utterly *** ignorant of the entire system.

Well it's a good thing that your plethora of assumptions are all wrong.

I have every piece of desirable gear for THF (having one job on this character is helpful for inventory space), including every notable dagger in the game from p.harpe to every useful magian dagger (pdt, dex/acc, agi/eva, tp bonus), etc
I have all three REMs, half way into my first of three afterglows
I wrote my gearswap from the ground up, not just modifying someone else's found online
I even have my own personally written spreadsheet

And finally, I never said to ignore the spreadsheet.

If you actually read what I wrote, I said the spreadsheet is a helpful tool, but that's all it is. It's a tool, not something that guarantees max damage output if you blindly follow it. Since the example is fresh on my mind; the spreadsheet doesn't factor in SC damage when you're alone vs when you're with other DDs. I have motenten's spreadsheet and do take a look at it from time to time, and while it admittedly is much more sophisticated than my spreadsheet, it's not a replacement for actual in-game experience.

By the way, tell me where and how I'm falling behind, if you don't mind.

I'm not going to throw around the he said she said *** you are trying to argue in your post. This isn't politics or something dumb where people need to try and save face by trying to claim you never said such things. I'm also not going to define implication for you because you can't *** use google. The facts still stand on the benefits spreadsheets bring to gearing. Just because you own an RME doesn't make you all the sudden right and everyone else wrong. It is a replacement for in game experience. You can literally put in everything you want to know and better your gear based off the testing you can do through the spreadsheet rather than wasting substantial amounts of time testing it in the game.

But hey I just almost repeated exactly what I already said so I'm assuming this argument is just going to go in a circle of the same stupid stuff being said over and over again. So I guess unless you actually point out where personal experience out weighs the gear sets I make through the spreadsheet rather then saying how much better it is I don't really have anything more to say and will continue using spreadsheets. I throughly enjoy playing thief to its maximum capabilities and would appreciate actual proof to your claim so I can adopt said practices to keep bettering my job. No joke.

IMO, I think thf addicts should consider Ihina's guide to thief, since Ihina is the MOST dedicated THF I know in the game which provides full information and facts.

For the third time, I never said not to.

It's irrefutably true that there are aspects of the game that can't and aren't captured on the spreadsheet.

And I did name an instance, twice. The spreadsheet does not take into account your skillchain being interrupted. It simply can't. Whether your skillchain gets interrupted or not will greatly change your damage output. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe skillchains are factored into the spreadsheet at all.

As ihina said spreadsheets don't factor everything in. They are a great base to work with though. Converting that data into real time data would require understanding game mechanics and variables. Skillchains have been given as an example.
HP Thresholds of mobs are another thing to math out, especially for thf dropping 30k rudras and closing darkness. Which would make your damage split a lot different on lower HP enemies than higher.
Even without skill chains, most soloable thf farming is done on mobs that wouldn't even live on a non stacked rudras. Which would mean any increase to ws damage would be giving you 0 DPS increase.
Meaning damage splits TP/WS is going to be vastly different. Which again means gearing for different things.
Spreadsheets don't factor these situational variables in. They base DPS from an infinite HP perspective.
As ihina said its a tool, not a go to for a all encompassing guaranteed BIS.

Edit: Why I'm still biting to this troll act is beyond me, but I am. To your irrefutable comment. It's the same boat with the benefits of a spreadsheet and you are obviously set in your ways and trying to get someone over the internet to change there mind is on the side of impossible, I apologize for these pointless arguments. Deleted whatever else was in this post because you just don't get it.

It's more the fact that skillchains are dependent on your party (whether people are contributing to them or interrupting them), your TP gain (THF having the potential to self SC), and/or what your enemy is doing to prevent a SC altogether (stuns, etc).

If I'm doing Tojil with MNKs who are spamming Victory Smite, by keeping up with well timed Mandalic Stabs, I can dish out a bunch of Lights (which they can double Light, if unintentionally). Now, while I have Vajra, I imagine (partly due to the attack down aura) that this could make Mandalic superior to Rudra's for even non-mythic owners. As valuable as a spreadsheet is for figuring ***out, it's not gonna factor those MNKs in there.

The thing about the spreadsheets is the SC damage is irrelevant in it. It might be better to mandalic stab. It might be better to rudras. It might be better to wasp sting. It does not matter because you use the spreadseet to maximize your gear sets in all of those WS and to maximize TP generation. If you maximize your gearsets in those WS, you maximize your SC potential. If you think its better to mandalic stab in certain situations mandilic stab. Use the spreadsheet to maximize your mandalic stab. If you think its better to viper bite. Use the spreadsheet to maximize your viper bite.

Now if you are using a spreadsheet to give you a literal example what your numbers and dps will look like on an encounter. I agree, there seems to be some inaccuracy, but I don't look at that. I make sure the formulas and stuff are correct and then check if something like my rudras goes up or down from certain gear. I am on thf basically 100% of the time and have done and still do basically ALL end game on it and have found though the resulting number the spreadsheet gives seems to almost always be off, the increase in damage has always been correct. If your goal is to SC, it doesn't matter if its in the spreadsheet or not because your goal is to maximize the dmg of your WS when closing, which again, the spreadsheet helps provide.

Thank you jeanpaul btw for providing an example to the SC stuff.

Bruh all you're doing is looking for an arguement. You see "Put down the spread sheet" I see "Don't rely on spread sheet" I don't use a spread sheet and I do just fine actually better than fine.

k. Use the spreadsheet. Don't use the spreadsheet. No one cares. Don't downplay the uses of the spreadsheet with fallacies.

It's also not a you see I see. was actually said.

It's almost like you can use the information the spreadsheet gives while also knowing that skillchains exist.

You can't do that stop lying.

It sounds more like you want to be bothered by a line I said rather than understanding why I said it.

Here's an easy to understand situation.

In certain situations, the reason why we're able to self skillchain is because a sufficient number of DA/TA/QA has proc'ed. For the sake of the example, let's say it's 75%. Let's say you want to compare a piece like the Thaumas coat vs another body. What the spreadsheet doesn't do, at all, is factor in the increase in likelihood of self skillchains the Thaumas body will provide. An extra 5-10% chance of essentially doubling your WS damage is a pretty big deal and it's nowhere mentioned in the spreadsheet.

Again, the spreadsheet is a very helpful tool. What people should be doing is taking the information from the spreadsheet and applying it to the game, rather than pretending the spreadsheet is the game.

Actually is does. There is multiple tabs and data in the spreadsheet you can look at to assume exactly what you are saying the spreadsheets don't do. I don't know what ones you use, but the ones I download from the link in the OP of this thread does exactly what you are saying it doesn't.

Let's leave it at that then. It doesn't look like you're interested in anything I have to say other than the line you quoted from me multiple times.

Between you and Valli, I wonder when it was that using the spreadsheet has become such a cult for a segment of the players.

Leave it at the spreadsheet having the information you are saying it doesn't have? Ok I will.

IMHO Its because its a cheap way to "win" an argument on the internet! Why use logic or common-sense to explain to something when you can just rag on them "to just look at the frickin' spreadsheet".

The real goal is to find a setup that works best for you and your friends. Using spreadsheets is a good way to get a good ballpark build, but in most cases finessing is best done based on actual experience because external factors also need to be accounted for.

Objectively speaking most of the time it wont matter anyway, because this game has been in easy-mode for a long time already.

It's safe to assume that people posting in this thread are looking for the best or some sort of guidance, not some half-assed set of gear. If you think otherwise why are you in a guide thread for thief in the first place? It is not ok in a thread like this to downplay such a useful tool like that person was doing.

I do agree with your last comment. A lot of the gear is actually pretty minimal. I mean it does add up, but the spreadsheet imo is more for the min/maxing. It greatly assists in finding the BEST gear because it will save you several hours of personal testing and or screwing around with parses or just eye balling it and human error, but in the end it actually isn't huge dmg increases. Occasionally there is a piece that is pretty big, but usually that stuff stands out so much that a spreadsheet isn't necessary to see that.

It's pretty difficult to do that with THF gear TBH... I mean the spread sheet is pretty useful I’m sure hence: Izi dagger over Mandau ex. But for the most part if you have even descent exp. with THF eyeballing is all you need to plug in pieces and go.

I'm interested in where a 14-16 base dmg aug, +15 acc(or acc/att), and wsd 4-5% fits into the mix of things.

I got one for the lulz and it has wsd 4%, and 17 acc on it so far (and +5 base damage QQ).

Hey guys I'm here having a conversation at the moment with LS members about capped TH and about both TH daggers.

Ok question is maybe say if you have full TH gear including both dagger would both dagger TH count as a proc And also how about if your not fully equipped with all TH gears does both weapons still count as a proc from each?

Weapons are no different from gear in regards to TH. Add it all up and that's what your procing with. At either a initial base hit of 8 cap. Or from then on a chance if an increase (chance % will vary on how much TH gear your wearing whilst trying to increase TH) on how much TH you leave on.
I'm not sure if there is a cap on how much TH you can have whilst increasing TH after the initial 8 base though. I don't think there is because it's simply a check between your TH and the mobs.

The beauty of using the spreadsheet is that it puts you in a situation where outside factors are negligible. It's like using a control sample in any sort of experiment that takes place. It's the single best tool to determine what piece of gear you should be using and the best tool to discuss/argue gear with cause it removes the outside factors. You can't use in game parses too often cause of stuff like skillchains/enfeebles/etc. and assume the numbers are perfect. The spreadsheet sure isn't the game but it's the best way to throw out numbers without sounding like an idiot.

Haven't played in quite some time. Is the first page still up to date with current gear sets?

stop arguing and check dev tracker. thf's death inc

Yes, thats bad news for thf, but right now, whats pissing me the most is thinking about another disgusting vallis post laughing and saying "i told, i told", then making a painful to read discussion.

I wouldn't say thf is dead. Sneak/trick attack won't be modified and Ardor will most likely profit to thieves.

And if rudra's is to be less powerful unstacked, well rejoice, we'll be able to actually see the voidwatch nm we're fighting. Until now, kaggen, pil and akvan were all big green tornados.