For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

If nothing else, Nageling is quite useful on thief for segment farming. Beasts, Arcana, and the demon family are all resistant to piercing damage, and that covers a ton of common mob camps you'll fight in Sheol-C. Furthermore, the most common NMS fall into these categories too and mamool agon mobs are also piercing resistant. This is a comprehensive list of all the mob families I know of in Sheol C that nageling is just flat out better to use than a dagger to kill because of the resistance penalty.

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Sheol C Mobs Resistant to Piercing

Beasts - Coeurl (Lynx), Manticore, Rabbit, Sheep (black variant), Ram, Tiger, Behemoth, Cerberus
Arcana - Bombs (triple cluster), Evil Weapons, Khimaira
Demon -- Imps, Soulflayers, Chaos Steward (dvergr)
Agon Mobs - Mamool Ja
Piercing resistant - Skeletons

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What's more, once you upgrade your path B nyame and throw in centovente offhand thief has a killer savage blade set. I've got all of my nyame pieces at rank 10 so far and even with just 5% WSD on each of them the savage blade damage is pretty silly. So yes, Nageling definately has a place on thief. Even if it is more situational than not.

Just checked with 5/5 Malignance builds and Naegling is slightly stronger with than Twashtar, so yeah. EDIT: not counting self skillchain ofc.


???

Beside RNG at least BLU, NIN, WAR, COR, BST has same tp bonus options and generally better Savage Blade damage potential.

DRG doesn't have TP bonus option, but still easily beats THF Savage too.

I was generalizing there simon. My point was simply that nyame largely evens the playing field between the different job's savage blade potential, and that thief's savage blade got a significant improvement now that we have access to it. The post was meant to be a reference point for the various mobs that you wouldn't want to use a dagger against if you could use savage instead, but you went and found the one thing that didn't pertain to my main point and decided to nitpick on it.

For better or worse naegling is the opposite of situational on thf. For solo SC I'm sure rudra spam wins but at this point I'm cranking out 45k+ unstacked sb like it's nothing. Also wanna throw a special shout out to karambits and /mnk. Been farming omen on thf/mnk in case thinker shows up (I'll have all 3 dmg weaknesses covered) and raging fists absolutely obliterates him, avg like 70k with buffs, and good white damage too.

That being said nyame is also really good for rudras since it has SC bonus on it. Thf has built up quite a nice arsenal these days, if properly geared I think it has a lot more versatility than people give it credit for.

Karambit is also great whenever you have to fight skeletons, and that goes double for seg farming since they resist both piercing and slashing in there. You wouldn't sub monk to a seg farm just for the off chance you end up fighting skeletons of course, but even then asuran fist spam still outperforms anything nageling or daggers can offer us at that camp. Thief's arsenal is quite robust nowadays, and there's a lot it can do. It's pretty sweet really.

Nah it's just probably the problem of my POV. I follow all threads (referencing Odyssey thread here) and do Odyssey daily, so jobs (including THF) using different weapon types for farming segments in C is as obvious info for me as WHM using cures to heal players, so I completely ignored that part of your post.

I just went back and edited out that one sentence about ranger and it's savage blade set. Did you really ignore everything else I wrote and hone in on just that one line? Because the entire post was about how useful naegling was for us in odyssey and what camps you would prefer to use it at.

I haven't ignored what you wrote I ignored to reply about weapon type being useful, because it was mentioned like 84874748303 times on this forum in Odyssey thread and in most job threads too. Especially Naegling as slashing option is super obvious. I understand it might be news for someone (this month returning player maybe), but for me (and probably most people on this forum interested in farming segments in odyssey) it's obvious as WHM using cures at this point.

Edit: just to be clear, your post was nothing wrong or false info. It's just the fact that Naegling is just everywhere on multiply jobs, not only as slashing option but often as bis option for DPS too. If you follow all threads like me, you would vomit seeing another mention of Naegling.

Thank you for your help, and with these dagger trials whats the best plantoid camp? Evis spam is 1 shotting mandies in Aby altepa. Was hoping for something I can ws on 2-4 times before engaging with something new. Edit: Ok I was using some dex items so now with them removed I can ws x 3 on the aby altepa mandies. Guess It's just slow but fine here.

There aren't any super good plants, ws in tp gear so you kill them slower

Reisenjima has ascended panopts those aren't too bad if the bots aren't monopolizing them

There are apex mandies in Sih, but again, it's a bot camp, if its open go for it. K-7ish

When I did the plantoids trial I just camped the rafllesia in abyssea konstant. They're spaced pretty far apart so they aren't the best to do the trial with, but I also wasn't in a hurry and got the kills at a leisurely pace while multitasking other things.

using mercurial kris and playing brd for insta haste cap, for those who are thinking of doing these trials, dagger seems very fun for my 2 favorite jobs (thf/brd)

Oh question, does a fully loaded 2500 + tp (aeonic mh) Rudra's beat a 2000 tp Savage blade on a monster with equal weakness to both weapon types? Considering sword skill is much lower? I would guess Rudra's but what is the answer? (both have optimized ws sets)

Apex Mandies are pretty good for it. I had a bot try to antagonize me for taking 1 mandy every few minutes though lol.

It will never be 2000TP vs 2500TP, unless for some reason you dont have Moonshade Earring. So its gonna be 2250TP vs 2750TP as minimum, but THF has so much TP overflow with Triple Attack, that avg TP will be more like 2900-3000TP Rudra vs 2400-2500TP Savage. Anyway Savage is stronger in all cases.

It just seems wild to me that Savage blade is that strong. And when I made this comment I meant to direct it towards bard when talking SB VS Rudra's (with aeonic) Its crazy that a class (brd) would have less dmg output from a weaponskill that is ranked B when compared to swordskill which is a C (thf being simliar with dagger being much higher then sword skill). I'm just trying to find a reason to use 50k beads on Aenoic is what it boils down to. For Brd I see it being nice when AM3 isn't easy to keep up and for Thf um idk yet except I dont want to make a vajra or Twash just yet.

In the current FFXI where you can have 1500+ accuracy and 5000+ attack, the difference between even A rank and C rank is quite minor in nearly every situation. The actual properties of the WSs matter FAR more.

Skill has very little to do with damage output. At most you are missing some attack and accuracy but it's not enough to make a huge difference, plus naegling boosts attack based on buffs. If you can self SC, daggers are great. But if you are spamming ws it's sword all day, thf or brd. It's hard to compete with 45k+ wsavg of savage blade which basically all jobs can do now (if I can avg that in odyssey on brd real dps jobs should be higher). On brd I use naegling like 85% of the time and twash the rest, I almost never use carn.

On thf I mainly use sword, but can also swap between gandring, twash, vajra, and tauret and even karambits based on the situation. Sometimes tp bonus offhand is not an option and that severely limits things. In these situations Aeneas can shine but personally I don't use it that often. It's pretty easy to make aeonics these days so if you don't have anything better to make I say go for it.

Hey I just finished Fusetto Trial 2305 and the dagger turned to +2 with 1000 tp bonus. Is there any reason to do any further trials? Edit : answer is yes someone said I drop item level by using a Fusetto +2 compared to the fully upgraded one. I do want to min max so guess I got 2 more trials.

More damage

How much more? Non-zero. Is it worth it? more deeps is more deeps.

Not that item level is a particularly meaningful statistic, but that person is wrong

Fusetto +2, Fusetto +3, and Centovente are for all intents and purposes identical. The only difference between them is 4 base damage. The 1000 tp bonus is active as soon as you get fusetto +2 and that's the real reason you use the tp bonus dagger. I wouldn't even bother with the last 2 trials in the current era. Magian trials are mind numbing and once you get fusetto +2 you have what you really need. You can finish cento to completion just for the sake of being a completionist, but it isn't necessary.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Nageling all the time. In my experiences Naegling is strong on all content, but if you're getting a decent semblance of buffs Twashtar is even stronger. Whenever I'm able to use my white damage crit build the empyrean aftermath just throws out ridiculous DPS, and even though unstacked rudra's is a little weaker than savage blade, the difference is more than compensated for by the increased white damage. The white damage difference between Nageling/cento versus Twashtar/Gleti's is massive. And when I run against harder group based content either I'm on cor and doing the buffing, or I'm getting buffed enough to make Twashtar still worth using. That's just my personal experience mind you, but it's how I look at things.

Like I wrote above, Naegling is slightly better only assuming hybrid set (5/5 Malignance) and still the difference is small (Maybe 2-3%). In glass cannon white damage setup Twashtar pulls ahead. Savage still outperform Rudra significantly, but white damage pulls whole build ahead.


NVM that was for Aeneas/Cento, because someone was asking about it. Twashtar pulls ahead even with 5/5 Malignance.

Nvm again :D IT was for Twashtar, but without accounting for Sneak and Trick Attack. With Sneak and Trick Attack they are even.

There's just not enough content where running a twash glass cannon build is preferable. Most fights (omen, ambu, dyna) don't last very long. You can say it can be good for trash in dyna but then you put yourself at risk for more stuns and debuffs, so there's a trade off. At this point in the game for a thf owning a naegling is, imo, just as if not more important than owning any other weapon. I want to use my twash glass cannon crit build more but there just aren't enough opportunities to do that atm.

new knife joy, new maffs.

Not really much to math on it. Damage 133 with respectable delay, 15 dex, 15 agi, and the rest of the base stats are pretty standard. We've also seen the TP/HP/MP drain effect before and it was nothing to write home about. So the biggest boon is the 5% quad attack and 3% weaponskill charisma mod. Utu grip and air knife (yes I know bonanza) give 10% stat mods, so the fact it's only 3% is a bit of a let down. All in all... it's a pretty nice package.

I'll still be sticking with my gleti's knife at the end of the day though. Gleti's knife has 6% triple attack which has synergy with our triple attack damage gear, 5% crit rate which has synergy with our...being thieves, and I have mine at rank 20 so I get the full 75 attack from it. In terms of raw power the new dagger is in the same ballpark as gleti's, but Rank 20 gleti's still has a slight edge over it. I look at it as a fantastic catch up piece if you don't already have R20 gleti's or ternion +1.

Does Gleti trump Ternion at this point?

I'm trying to get a feel for how Nyame changes WS sets now that I have access to it. Is it just straight BiS or does some THF AF2+3 compete?