For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

That's some good news if I've ever heard any.

Annoyed I may not be first Mandau, but at least I'll tie for first.

Has anyone checked the Oboro Dagger for upgrades? the Aettir report gives me hope the other weapons might have significant bonuses... I don't own the dagger and I've already traded in a relic for upgrade so he's not letting me do anything else... or I'd see for myself.

That was fun

So far, we have


1000tp = 60 seconds (for sure)
2000tp = 120 seconds
3000tp = 180 seconds (for sure)

Duration scales with tp, so 1500tp will give more than 1000tp and less than 2000tp.

Afterglow duration still 30 seconds.

Doesn't look like an increase the bonus to Mercy Stroke, they're both still doing about the same damage (w/Rudra @ 1000 and Moonshade). That's what I remember from before. I'm open to being wrong on that.

SAMercy with the new Mandau still does about 15% less than SARudra with the previous Vajra, so yeah, there's that.



Relic x3 proc is still x3.

Tracking my hits for about 10 minutes now.

Highest proc crit is 486, highest regular crit is 160, which is x3.03.
Highest proc hit is 316, highest regular hit is 107, which is x2.95

Was beating on Uragnites

I didn't pay any attention to proc rate

Soooo, since nobody has asked this question yet:

How good does TEH SANDUNG get after Oboro's done messing with it?

Bg wiki reports triple attack+ 3%, crust rate +5%, and acc +50. Not terrible at all.

I'm still going to offhand my Twashtar once I finish with it though.

Well yeah.. With 50 DEX +269 skill and that delay, I'd do that too.

I wonder for non double REM holders, such as myself, whether Sandung would make a good replacement for Sari or Skinflayer.
Looking at the stats, aside from base damage, +50 Acc, +5% Crit rate, + 5% WSD and TA +3% seem quite hard to give up.

Let's not forget about that OMG TH+1 you get back from wielding it once more!!! (Edit: obviously Jk)

So the sandunger gimps were right all along!?

Low delay it has not. The acc is all it has going for it.

If you super duper need acc for whatever reason and there's no brd/geo around, I imagine going Twashtar/Sandung would be ideal.

For offhands, calculations showing a perfect Sari still ahead of Sandung. Twashtar is the best offhand, of course. This is disregarding high accuracy situations, as I don't have any solid enemy stats on content where accuracy is an issue.

Somewhat related, Mandau does really well with a set heavy on TA and Crit, compared to where Vajra does really well with a set heavy more on STP and TA. The key difference here is Mandau is taking advantage of much greater melee DPS, while Vajra shines with WSs. Overall, Vajra would pull well ahead assuming you aren't holding back on your WSs. Aeneas seems to be pretty much on par with Mandau, potentially ahead by a little (though surely I'm not exploring all possibilities).

Also worth noting that the damage changes makes Mandalic a much stronger choice in high def situations, even for non-Vajra owners. For Mandau owners, the 1000%ish TP WS of choice on strong enemies would likely be Evisceration.

176 and below is low delay
178 to 186 is medium delay
186 to 200 is high delay
201+ is stupid

You can't compare a high delay weapon to stupid high delay weapons and call it low delay

What augs are you going by? Skinflayer needs a lot to keep up with maxed Sari.

GL getting that....

CL130 seems to be around 1200~1250 acc needed for cap. CL 135 was 1350~1400, CL 145 is something absurd like 1800. So I guess the 1200 and 1400 figures could be used. Bream sushi gives 82 accuracy, Sublime gives 100, so base off those figures. Sublime is expensive so I would only use it on serious content for drops and not for something like apex or lower tier farming. 1100 accuracy before food or buffs seems to be a good benchmark.

Pretty good info. I really wish we had people still gathering what they can regarding other stuff like Defense, though. Still, it'd easy enough to adjust enemy evasion on the fly for quick calculations.

All the major daggers since SR have been high or stupid high delay weapons.

You Are Literally Comparing It To Some Of The Highest Delay Daggers In The Game

and then calling it low delay

The range of delay is literally 142 to 215. 200 is not on the low end of that. It's amazing that you're being this stubborn.

I honestly do not think the augment system from SR is any worse than the one involved in Escha. The only bad thing with is you are unable to pick the drop that gets a roll on augments.

Having to spend loads of time talking to a npc and rolling augments over and over is far more annoying than doing SR which, along the way, could always net you some AHable items. Neither system is good, but SR feels less of a waste of time.

After having searched across BG and here, I don't think you can get more than DEX+10 without Taupe and more than TA+2 without Fern. The stats you propose would barely edge out a perfect Sari using daggers other than Vajra, but I don't think they can actually happen (disregarding the insane luck you'd need).

I'm not saying you're saying it's the lowest delay in the game.

What I'm saying is entirely straight forward, clear and has been repeated.

You are literally comparing it to some of the H-I-G-H-E-S-T delay daggers in the entire game and then calling it low delay by comparison.

If 0 is the lowest delay dagger in the game and 10 is the highest, this dagger is literally an 8. An 8 out of 10 is not a low number.

It's like saying the Mandau is a high delay weapon, because, ya know, there are lower delay weapons. Disagree with that? Well, it's because you're saying that I'm saying the Mandau is the highest delay weapon in the game and clearly I'm not doing that.

The Mandau is a high delay weapon and the Sandung is a low delay weapon. What a world we live in.

And I've gotten 3TA without fern, I'm pretty sure.

Up to date, minus the new RME and damage caps until they are more understood:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/v2ju22v7yuyp3zp/DPS_Calculator_-_Thf_general-custom1.xlsx

im not really sure that ta% would be better than wsd either.

SR when an item is shown it has 10% chance of rolling perfect augs.

You say SR aug system is worse than skirmish 2...
literally this statement describes reis aug system instead.

Not liking to kill the Adoulin heroes is just lol.

Sandung is not a low delay dagger. It's on the upper end of average delay.

For the sake of not misleading people, I'm reluctant to give out any values as a cap unless I see a screenshot (and if it looks too good to be true, I'd probably request verification). It would be irresponsible of us to advise spending time/money on extremely rare augments that might not even exist.

As far as the pDIF change goes, there's been enough testing to say it's 3.25 for 1-handed weapons. Other recent findings include that Aeneas' TP Bonus does not work offhand (unsurprising). I've nearly completed my update to the spreadsheet, which now includes vorseals, cheers, updated WSs and damage calculations, gear, Larceny, Gifts, Job Points, Abjuration set bonuses, the ability to calculate COR rolls by the rolled number/COR gear, and some other things. The few things I need to touch up are:

- Calculating Hundred Fists as it works for non-h2h weapons, especially in conjunction with Dual Wield (not critical but I'd like to have it)
- Twashtar's Aftermath damage bonus, which does look like it was factored in?
- Simpler things like registering Mandau's AM, and making Aeneas's TP Bonus only work mainhand
- New foods, I always forget these
- More gear that I've missed probably