For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Let me rephrase.

Let's pretend we all have the Aeonic Dagger right now. You're allowed to use Stroke.

Would you EVER use Stroke instead of Rudras? No. Mercy Stroke (all relic ws) just didn't get improved properly. They don't scale.

Having a stronger Mandau, just means stronger Rudras from it. Rudras is always better then Stroke.

The million gil question though, is, will ANYONE bother upgrading Mandau, considering the task required to do so. After Vajra, 2 years later, lol.

Okay, we seem to be talking about different things here. I'm just saying that Mandau with a higher base damage will help Mercy. It will also help every other WS, but still.

Weapon being upgraded more often than not affects weapon skill damage, especially Mandau and Vajra. I'm not entirely sure what game you think you're playing.


Yes? Since apparently it'll only take me an hour.

I wanna use my god damn Mandau again! Yes please!

This is basically me the past 2 months, except in CAPS and bold font

Mandau probably won't beat Vajra or Twashtar, and possibly not Aeneas, but it'll still be a very powerful weapon for a seasoned THF. They did mention that they were working to alter some of the Aftermaths, and I suspect that they were referring specifically to relics, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Fingers crossed for crit hit rate+40% aftermath!

When you need Gravitation property to close a SC.

Rudra's is Distortion / Darkness
Mandalic Stab is Fusion
Shark Bite is Fragmentation
Mercy Strike is Gravitation / Darkness

The only other Dagger WS that occupies that position is Evisceration, but it doesn't stack well.

A notable Distortion WS is CDC another one is Fudo.

So if your doing darkness with a PLD or BLU, they will open with CDC and you need to close with either Evis or Mercy. Of those two Mercy stacks much better.

I've mentioned it before, the game is no longer about "SPAM STRONGEST WS EVAR!!!" the moment you get 1000TP. It's now about making SC's with other people and having lots of options is always a plus.

Can always give them a slap on the butt and tell them to open with Savage Blade for Mandalic Stab or Req for Rudra

Why do I do this to myself

Yeah, you'd probably get more overall damage convincing them to use more than CDC or Fudo. Better yet would be something like Evis > CDC > stacked Rudra's.

Vajra's Aftermath helps Evis out quite a bit, to where at 1000% you can, on average, out-do Rudra's. If they give Mandau's Aftermath the needed boost, it could be in a similar position.

I got a little lost in this conversation. Just to clarify, how okay is Mandau right now for a THF? My friend and I just came back to this game, and we got his Mandau to 119. The damage does seem lower, but it does have hidden effects. Is it okay? Is Mercy Stroke worth using?

It's ok, there are daggers that top it, and come February there'll be a way to make it (along with Vajra and Twashtar) even stronger. We'll have to wait and see as to how good it ends up being in the long term, but for now it does fine. Mercy Stroke is fairly weak compared to Rudra's Storm and (mostly with Vajra) Mandalic Stab, and its only redeeming qualities is that it's the strongest stacked Gravitation WS, and I guess the Aftermath.

I believe it's safe to assume that REMs will beat anything else though (the base damage boost alone should bring them all close to Aeneas), so considering even the worse case scenario, wherein Mandau takes 4th place against Aeneas, Vajra and Twashtar, it won't be all that bad compared to its current condition.

Looking forward to Feb. update, not looking forward to the potential grinding requirements.

You guys really make playing Thief more challenging then it has to be. Let's make all this improper SCs with jobs that people don't use so we can kill content slower than just doing things the most optimal way.
You guys really make playing Thief more challenging then it has to be. Let's make all this improper SCs with jobs that people don't use or WS' not worth it to kill slower than just doing things the most optimal way. It is far superior to close with evis and use stacked rudras to make other SC. Unless we aren't playing the same game, half the time suggesting this BS SC a lot of you guys do is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. It usually involves others jobs that usually don't exist if you are playing the game to the best you can (which I would assume so when you talk about doing things to it's max potential), or jobs using WS to do SCs that don't matter when you can for example do stuff like evis > CDC > rudras or req > CDC > rudras for double darks, or just get a mythic and do mandalics for light. Maybe we should start throwing on wasp stings and stuff.

This is the only redeeming factor atm for another melee DD than just spamming BLU at everything that you can melee DD, except for stuff like SR where 1 blu 2 cors just destroys. Other than that, you are mostly hurting overall DPS with other DDs holding TP and crap for SCing or having your BLU spam REQ etc......

Stardiver + Rudra's 4eva

Thanks for the info :) Can't wait for this February update. I have a Gjallarhorn so I hope that gets updated also.

I lowman stuff with a pld, so we do Savage Blade > TA+MStab for my aftermath, then I go do my 2-4 step solo skillchains while he takes 3 minutes to build tp.

I believe the best skillchains are, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Rudra > Rudra
Evis > Rudra > Rudra
MStab > Evis > Rudra > Rudra

If he somehow builds tp before my aftermath is gone, we do Req > SA/TA Rudra's. Not alot of tp holding when two people are in tune with one another.

Works pretty well. Only wall we run into is when I'm reminded that I wear reinforced cardboard for armor.

Heh, he asked for a situation so I replied. I agree that a multi-step would be far more appropriate but it's hard enough as is to get two people to SC together. And to be fair, CDC is pretty strong, and a simple CDC -> stacked Mercy is better then a Requiscat -> stacked rudras unless your starting out with 3000TP.

Anyhow he asked for something that makes it useful and there is that. Gravitation is just a really useful category to have.
That works great against Apex bats btw. Polearm and Dagger just owns those thing's souls. Camlann's Torment -> Rudras -> Stardiver -> Rudra's and it's almost dead.

Then you got interesting stuff like CT <-> Mandalic for light or Drakesbane <-> Shark Bite, slightly weaker WS's but the light does stupid damage on those things. Can even work it so that the DRG finish's with Camlann's Torment for a double light. Again the WS isn't as strong but the resulting SC damage is devastating.

DRG + THF has always been a good combination, but I might be biased since I have an identical twin for a skillchain partner. Also to consider: Any Tranfixion (such as Drakesbane or Stardiver) to Sonic Thrust makes the Distortion they otherwise don't get without Gungnir.

Just delevel THF, switch to BLM, GEO or BST and never play anything ever again because anything less isn't optimal. Seriously nobody use's THF these days except for TH whoring.

Personally I try to have fun with all my jobs and include my friends in that fun, those friends like to use THF and so we come up with creative ways to get stuff done while also having a good time doing so. But why let some fun get in the way of a good crusade.

That's not what I said at all. I play THF religiously and love it. I also apologize for any of my rant was taken as offensive. It doesn't change the point though that there is NO situation on THF right now where you should be using anything but evisceration, and stacked mandalic/rudras. If you are, the chances are you are more than not hurting your dmg.

Ok, so I'm the only DD. Do I spam Evis and stack mstab/rudra when SA/TA are up, or do I do unstacked mstab/rudra to self skillchain?

I wouldn't agree with that unless you happen to have a setup that favors Evis over other WSs, and if there really is no SC option (including self-SC when it's feasible). On weak ***, lower TP Rudra's can perform better even unstacked. On moderate level content, Vajra owners will generally perform better than Evis with Mandalic unstacked 1000%, assuredly so if AM3 is not up or if you go into high level content. Some of these variances can really depend on gear (namely, crit rate/damage vs WS damage) as well, so I think people ought to evaluate their own damage and *** what's working best.

A stacked WS isn't really living up to its potential if you're not capitalizing on SC damage. I don't really find much use in Shark Bite, Exenterator, or (if I had it) Mercy Stroke beyond desperate SC attempts (which I would only use for gimmicky fights, and almost definitely not with SA/TA). However, there are sometimes when the people you're with aren't coordinating with you, and it's worthwhile to take advantage of a window of opportunity.

I only mentioned Shark Bite because it's a decent WS and is the only Fragmentation WS THF / DNC have, which if for some reason you need to do light and your partner only has Fusion. Basically if you are with another THF or DNC, one of you is doing SB for the other to close. If you multi-step it that closing light is going to do insane damage, so it's basically sacrificing some intermediary WS damage in order to enable really big end SC damage.

You should get your twin to rewrite the drg guide after you rewrite the thf one.

Hey everyone! Just got back from taking a small break a month or so ago and in that small break it seems that all of my alluvion armor/weapons got outdated. I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers as I had a hard time finding out the info I needed browsing a decent amount of the pages. Thanks ahead of time for reading this and possibly even helping me out, it's appreciated very much! :)

Main - Ipetam - DMG:16 DblATK+4 Acc+15
Sub - Blurred Knife +1
Ammo - Wingcutter
Head - Skulker's Bonnet +1
Ear1 - Steelflash Earring
Ear2 - Bladeborn Earring
Neck - Lissome Necklace
Body - Rawhide Vest [Path: D/R15]
Back - Canny Cape - DEX+5 AGI+3 DW+4 CritDMG+2%
Hands - Taeon Gloves - Acc/Atk+17 TripATK+2 CritDMG+2%
Ring1 - Epona's Ring
Ring2 - Pernicious Ring
Waist - Windbuffet Belt +1
Legs - Taeon Tights - Acc/Atk+20 TripATK+2 CritDMG+2%
Feet - Taeon Boots - Acc+25 TripATK+2% CritDMG+3%

I'm assuming I need some Herc gear in there somewhere, and I'm pretty sure the alluvion stuff is trash now. Any help would be awesome!

Daggers: If you've finished Adoulin, taming saris (Sinister Reign) are the best choice. Long term, RME daggers should pull ahead if you're willing to get those (update coming soon, so it's hard to quantify). Blurred Knife +1 is pretty cool, but lacks the good WS boosting stats like DEX found on other knives; generally, blurred work best when completely solo (Salvage, etc).
Ammo: You can get greater accuracy and WS damage from using the slot with switchable ammos like qirmiz tathlum, falcon eye, etc. There are a variety of useful ammos and most are not hard to come by. Of course, a ranged weapon might be important to your strategy, so ya know, do whatever
Head: Fine, though I'm more of a dampening tam (also Sinister Reign) fan myself.
Neck: Only better choices would be erudition necklace (Adoulin qusetline) or combatant's torque (collecting all 7 escha sky torques and synergizing them).
Body: Rawhide is pretty solid, only better options are adhemar jacket/+1 and herculean vest with good augments.
Back: solid, unless you're looking for greater accuracy, in which case you might want to get grounded mantle/+1 (unity beetle NM, Battalia)
Hands: One of the weaker Taeon pieces, even with ideal augments. rawhide gloves are likely soloable, but will ultimately be topped by adhemar wristbands/+1 (best) or herculean gloves.
Rings: Both fine unless you're looking for accuracy, in which case consider Ramuh +1 or the new unity sniper rings (I forget what they're called). I'm also a fan of patricius ring (AA Elvaan) or yacuruna ring/+1 (crafted, AH)
Waist: Windbuffet +1 is ideal until you run into accuracy issues, in which case you'd want something like olseni belt (incursion) or kentarch belt/+1 (unity ant NM, Quicksand Caves)
Legs: Probably the most enduring Taeon piece. Herculean pants are short on accuracy or multiattack found on other pieces, even with good augments. Adhemar/+1 are ideal for accuracy, where samnuha tights (Sinister Reign) are ideal when accuracy isn't a concern.
Feet: herculean boots all the way.

Thanks Jean! I really do appreciate your swift feedback. I have all incursion drops and am currently working on getting SR done for the Taming Sari's (Only one I've received thus far had: DMG+9 STR+6/DEX+9), Dampening Tam and hopefully a decent legs piece for when accuracy isn't needed. I usually only solo on my THF, and the blurred knife +1 took me forever to make so it's tough to let go but might be something to look forward to in the future. I was mainly looking for a solid TP set but looks like you gave me both :D Thanks again!



Oh! Before I forget, what is the reason that this is better than the Lissome Necklace, or Asperity Necklace (Double attack+)? Is it the Store TP+ and/or Accuracy Boost?

Oh, I think if I had a Blurred Knife +1, I'd hold onto it for sure, or if not that then lend it out to trusted friends from time to time.

As for the necklaces, yeah the other two necklaces are really for the Store TP/accuracy. Lissome is pretty solid, and the differences between those 3 necklaces are overall quite minor on weaker content. If you can get Combatant's, I'd say skip out on Erudition and consider ditching Lissome too, at least if you're tight on inventory like I am.

Okay, thank you! I've been working on the Incantor's Torques for my GEO but I'll definitely do those next. :)