The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Phoenix.Pretre
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By Phoenix.Pretre 2019-05-30 11:59:21
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hi can someone link a perfect decimation set for me pls / ty
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By Lili 2019-05-30 14:04:11
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Phoenix.Pretre said: »
hi can someone link a perfect decimation set for me pls / ty

There is one on page 151, along with an explanation.
 Phoenix.Pretre
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By Phoenix.Pretre 2019-05-30 17:13:32
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awesome ty
 Asura.Bayonette
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By Asura.Bayonette 2019-05-30 21:43:39
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Today I built a 100% DA set for my Chango, and I was striving to keep the 54 store tp i had in my previous set (6 quad, 5 triple and about 85ish DA). The fadedtwilight tp calculator is the only one i am able to find. It said I needed 54 store tp, and ive been going by that for about a year. Testing tonight i found that 51 store tp (36 gear 15 from SAM sub) gives me 202 tp a hit which keeps me at a 5 hit.

2 questions. Is 100% double attack actually 100%? In my testing tonight it seemed to be, I killed apex mobs by melee only counting the swings, and I procced every time.

And is there another, more accurate, store tp calculator resource out there?
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-05-30 22:41:31
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Asura.Bayonette said: »
Today I built a 100% DA set for my Chango, and I was striving to keep the 54 store tp i had in my previous set (6 quad, 5 triple and about 85ish DA). The fadedtwilight tp calculator is the only one i am able to find. It said I needed 54 store tp, and ive been going by that for about a year. Testing tonight i found that 51 store tp (36 gear 15 from SAM sub) gives me 202 tp a hit which keeps me at a 5 hit.

2 questions. Is 100% double attack actually 100%? In my testing tonight it seemed to be, I killed apex mobs by melee only counting the swings, and I procced every time.

And is there another, more accurate, store tp calculator resource out there?

Yes 100% is indeed 2.0 attacks per round.

Yes there is a more accurate store TP calculator, it's notepad, calc and the wiki. Each weapons base TP return is listed on wiki, you can easily get the raw 5-hit value by dividing 200 by the base TP return. That's the starting point as WS return also matters and usually ends up reducing the actual needed store TP in TP set. The thing with Chango is that you essentially get 25 Store TP for "free", 15 from sub and 10 from weapon.
 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2019-06-01 17:16:02
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Hi, sorry if this has been asked before but does Store TP affect Retaliation TP return?

Also, even if it does, would Arke Zuchetto be a better piece to swap in over Sulevia Mask for the niche scenario where you would only be getting wailed on or could just retaliate your way tp 1000 TP through status effects like Slow and Paralyze?
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-06-01 23:07:41
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Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Hi, sorry if this has been asked before but does Store TP affect Retaliation TP return?

Yes.

Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Also, even if it does, would Arke Zuchetto be a better piece to swap in over Sulevia Mask for the niche scenario where you would only be getting wailed on or could just retaliate your way tp 1000 TP through status effects like Slow and Paralyze?

Retaliation proc rate is heavily based on delay of your main hand weapon, with Chango it seemed to be around 40% after JP, with Sword + Shield it was nearly 80% after JP. Also I wasn't able to get any MA's or crits to happen and it does force an accuracy check. So if your just purely playing defense then I'd suggest a Sword + Board setup with the gloves and use Savage as your WS.
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2019-06-02 10:24:02
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Also, even if it does, would Arke Zuchetto be a better piece to swap in over Sulevia Mask for the niche scenario where you would only be getting wailed on or could just retaliate your way tp 1000 TP through status effects like Slow and Paralyze?

Retaliation proc rate is heavily based on delay of your main hand weapon, with Chango it seemed to be around 40% after JP, with Sword + Shield it was nearly 80% after JP. Also I wasn't able to get any MA's or crits to happen and it does force an accuracy check. So if your just purely playing defense then I'd suggest a Sword + Board setup with the gloves and use Savage as your WS.
OK. Um... Even if using Sword+Shield, what I'm looking into is whether Arke Set's Convert Damage to TP can be used in niche combination with Retaliation to bypass status effects since it has 0 M.Eva.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-06-02 10:40:56
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It would seem a better idea not to get inflicted with those ailments in the first place and hit things for TP.
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By Spaitin 2019-06-10 02:21:12
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New items look like a big let down for war. no haste. unless BG wiki is showing them wrong.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-06-10 02:25:52
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0% Haste > Slow
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By Spaitin 2019-06-10 02:33:24
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you mean weakened? doesnt do anything with slow.



This seems like a decent TP set with it actually.


ItemSet 367122


25 gear haste. 93 DA.

ItemSet 367131

pretty durable. might be able to come up with something better if using the khonsu grip? not sure.

Tempus fugit hq/nq seems like a better swap than jokoshu Haidate since legs are such a good slot for TP.

with rostam cor sam/fighter you can hit 100 DA and have a lot of STP 63 from gear. Swap the cape out for a STP version. 44 DA from gear 33 from being a war and then fighters roll. actually it might be pretty awesome. with lucky rostam sam/fighters. you are looking at 100 DA 50 DT and 141-151 STP. With 11 sam roll you have a 3 hit build as well. with just lucky. WS + 1 attack round should be right around 1008 TP (assuming no misses and no extra hits). more with 11's and accounting for extra hits on WS.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-06-10 02:43:53
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Valhalla had 5% slow, Laerdar had 2% slow, new body has 0% haste/slow
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By Spaitin 2019-06-10 02:49:41
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none of those are 119 so i dont really see the comparison. only comparing to other 119 options.
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By SimonSes 2019-06-10 04:25:54
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Spaitin said: »
none of those are 119 so i dont really see the comparison. only comparing to other 119 options.

The comparison is pretty obvious. Those new items are 119 version of those mentioned by Eiryl, so it's a step up that SE dropped slow from them and only left it without haste.
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By Spaitin 2019-06-10 04:29:37
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you would never use them these days, so they really dont matter.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-06-11 21:48:25
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Quote:
DMG:167 Delay:236 STR+15 Accuracy+27 Attack+33 Sword skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +228 Haste+4% "Quad Attack"+3% Additional effect: "Death"

Looks like an amazing offhand for Decimation.
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 Asura.Bayonette
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By Asura.Bayonette 2019-06-17 11:16:18
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ItemSet 367290

This is my new chango tp build with Odin’s new helmet.

101% DA, 54 store tp, 26% haste, 27% pdt -, 20% mdt- . (15 acc 5 DA body)
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By DirectX 2019-06-17 11:19:02
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How could it beat 8% WSD, or even 4%?
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By Spaitin 2019-06-17 13:52:04
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wsd damage doesnt do much for decimation.
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By Lili 2019-06-17 20:12:33
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DirectX said: »
How could it beat 8% WSD, or even 4%?

To elaborate:

WSD only affects the first hit of a weaponskill.
For weaponskills like Upheaval, where the first hit can do 5-10 times the damage of the additional hits, then WSD is best.
For weaponskills like Decimation (and Resolution), where each hit does the same damage, then you want as many hits as you can.

Decimation is 5 hit base, and you can only get a maximum of two multi hit activations for each WS. If you get Double Attack to activate two times, you get 7 hit. If you get Quadruple Attack to activate even a single time, that automatically means maximum amount of hits.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-06-17 20:49:39
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You have the right idea but the wrong number of hits, your thinking Ruinator or maybe Rampage.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Decimation

Decimation is 3 hits on the main hand with one off hand hit at 1.75 transferable fTP per hit. With gorget and belt we're talking 1.945 per hit here, which is significant. The normal Decimation WS set (basically a Resolution set) will have a high DA rate, something like ~1.5 I think, meaning your average Decimation will be 5.5 hits. Fighters roll will bring you to 100% DA in WS set (this is the real reason we use it btw, not for TP) so that jumps to +2.0 before accounting for TA / QA (turns into something like 2.2) bringing Decimation to at least 6.0 hits with the actual number being around 6.2 or 6.3 average.

Now add the +120% damage buff and what we get is an extremely reliable WS that practically always hits the same numbers regardless of TP. Kinda wastes the power of Warcry and Bloodrage but it's still fun to use and will surprise people.
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By Lili 2019-06-17 21:28:18
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Asura.Saevel said: »
You have the right idea but the wrong number of hits, your thinking Ruinator or maybe Rampage.

Decimation is 3 hits on the main hand with one off hand hit [..] your average Decimation will be 5.5 hits.

You're totally right, I confused the base hits with how many hits we can get on average.

Still, illustrates the point: 3+1 hits with just a single QA proc is 7 hits, and that sword + Niqmaddu makes for two shots at a 6% chance of it to happen, plus the STR, accuracy and attack. It's a really good offhand for Decimation - not to mention the added QA chance during TP.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-06-17 23:30:29
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Asura.Saevel said: »
You have the right idea but the wrong number of hits, your thinking Ruinator or maybe Rampage.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Decimation

Decimation is 3 hits on the main hand with one off hand hit at 1.75 transferable fTP per hit. With gorget and belt we're talking 1.945 per hit here, which is significant. The normal Decimation WS set (basically a Resolution set) will have a high DA rate, something like ~1.5 I think, meaning your average Decimation will be 5.5 hits. Fighters roll will bring you to 100% DA in WS set (this is the real reason we use it btw, not for TP) so that jumps to +2.0 before accounting for TA / QA (turns into something like 2.2) bringing Decimation to at least 6.0 hits with the actual number being around 6.2 or 6.3 average.

Now add the +120% damage buff and what we get is an extremely reliable WS that practically always hits the same numbers regardless of TP. Kinda wastes the power of Warcry and Bloodrage but it's still fun to use and will surprise people.

Speaking of warcry, any idea what the accuracy bonus tiers are on decimation?

It could be very consistent for higher end/evasive content

Lili said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
You have the right idea but the wrong number of hits, your thinking Ruinator or maybe Rampage.

Decimation is 3 hits on the main hand with one off hand hit [..] your average Decimation will be 5.5 hits.

You're totally right, I confused the base hits with how many hits we can get on average.

Still, illustrates the point: 3+1 hits with just a single QA proc is 7 hits, and that sword + Niqmaddu makes for two shots at a 6% chance of it to happen, plus the STR, accuracy and attack. It's a really good offhand for Decimation - not to mention the added QA chance during TP.

The added haste could also free a few things up. Possibly allowing the use of Hjarrandi Body or Head.

I wonder how the body would be. The Store TP/Crit looks really good for a dual wield set. Not to mention giving you some nice hybrid stats in a full DD set.

Sure looks better than using a Store TP Valorous.
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By Korgull 2019-06-18 00:35:15
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Sure looks better than using a Store TP Valorous.
How 2 DA from Valorous compares to 13% Crit from Hjarrandi? Since both can get 10 store TP, i'd stick to valorous if DT is not a concern.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-06-18 01:13:22
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Korgull said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Sure looks better than using a Store TP Valorous.
How 2 DA from Valorous compares to 13% Crit from Hjarrandi? Since both can get 10 store TP, i'd stick to valorous if DT is not a concern.

On a job like Warrior where you are already pushing a crap ton of multi attack? I really want to know.
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By Korgull 2019-06-18 01:43:07
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ItemSet 367302

I haven't updated my DW sets for a while, but you get 85 DA with this one and Zantetsuken/+7 STP Valorous, 90 if you change valorous to +5 DA, and 96 with Ambuscade hands +2 (but you lose 6 DW). So the extra 2 DA from Valorous still adds something useful, 2DA > 13 Crit for TP.

My conclusion is that Valorous>Hjarrandi for zerg purposes, but if you want DT or some extra acc the new Odin body pairs really well the sword.

My 2 cents.
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By DirectX 2019-06-18 02:13:49
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Lili said: »
sword + Niqmaddu makes for two shots at a 6% chance of it to happen
You can't just add things up that would be on WS anyway... You'd use Niqmaddu regardless. So 3% QA vs 8% WSD on the main hand hit, barbarity has 13 more STR too so your comment about STR is irrelevant, worse even. I would like to see the math.
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By Spaitin 2019-06-18 05:39:29
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DirectX said: »
So 3% QA vs 8% WSD on the main hand hit, barbarity has 13 more STR too so your comment about STR is irrelevant, worse even. I would like to see the math.


Not quite, it is 8% wsd on the main hand hit vs 3 qa on the first and second hit ( i forget if offhand hit can proc an MA on DW ws, i assume it doesnt)
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By Nariont 2019-06-18 05:39:45
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even before not-hofud, reis axe was the better off-hand, 8% WSD doesnt add much to a low ftp-transferring multi-hit WS, be like gearing for WSD for stardiver or CDC, strs higher yes but MA's gonna generate more dmg long term
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