Here are my VW sets: LR,Endark,Stal,Atmacite,Chaos
Code
Att 1542 1524 1566 1628 Acc 616 617 621 644
RagTP / ApocTP / RagWS / ApocWS
DRK/SAM capping me on anything with 677 Defense or less.
Drk Gear?
Drk gear?
Using the spread sheet for approx mob stats is just silly LOL. Parse data shows his Def is 650, maybe 700 max.
Here are my VW sets: LR,Endark,Stal,Atmacite,Chaos
RagTP / ApocTP / RagWS / ApocWS
DRK/SAM capping me on anything with 677 Defense or less.
Here are my VW sets: LR,Endark,Stal,Atmacite,Chaos
RagTP / ApocTP / RagWS / ApocWS
DRK/SAM capping me on anything with 677 Defense or less.
[+]
I believe I said 675 defense, which would be between your 650 to 700. Unless you mean without Dia. Endark is not worth counting on, it's pretty rare it will last an entire fight.
As far as your attack values, they are pretty high. If I switch towards a more attack oriented gear setting I still stick at under 1500. Doing this you start losing large amounts of DA/TA/QA, on top of the 10% DA you already lost by being /sam.
You then come to the idea that somehow Sekka, Hasso STR, Meditate, and some STP are going to be stronger than a straight 10% DA increase and the extra DA/TA/QA you gain from not having to gear for Attack.
I would love to see your sets actually.
As far as your attack values, they are pretty high. If I switch towards a more attack oriented gear setting I still stick at under 1500. Doing this you start losing large amounts of DA/TA/QA, on top of the 10% DA you already lost by being /sam.
You then come to the idea that somehow Sekka, Hasso STR, Meditate, and some STP are going to be stronger than a straight 10% DA increase and the extra DA/TA/QA you gain from not having to gear for Attack.
I would love to see your sets actually.
Asura.Failaras said: »
I believe I said 675 defense, which would be between your 650 to 700. Unless you mean without Dia. Endark is not worth counting on, it's pretty rare it will last an entire fight.
As far as your attack values, they are pretty high. If I switch towards a more attack oriented gear setting I still stick at under 1500. Doing this you start losing large amounts of DA/TA/QA, on top of the 10% DA you already lost by being /sam.
You then come to the idea that somehow Sekka, Hasso STR, Meditate, and some STP are going to be stronger than a straight 10% DA increase and the extra DA/TA/QA you gain from not having to gear for Attack.
I would love to see your sets actually.
As far as your attack values, they are pretty high. If I switch towards a more attack oriented gear setting I still stick at under 1500. Doing this you start losing large amounts of DA/TA/QA, on top of the 10% DA you already lost by being /sam.
You then come to the idea that somehow Sekka, Hasso STR, Meditate, and some STP are going to be stronger than a straight 10% DA increase and the extra DA/TA/QA you gain from not having to gear for Attack.
I would love to see your sets actually.
You were using a 750 defense mob (spread sheet est.) I'm not sure when Moten bumped it up, but 650-700 (before debuff) is closer to correct. Either way I would be capped.
EnDRK last for 3min. Is the fight long or short? You keep changing that up.
Fighters roll also plays better to /sam with DAs diminishing returns.
Here are the sets I used, where should I add DA,TA,QA?
Rag
Apoc
[+]
Quote:
You were using a 750 defense mob (spread sheet est.) I'm not sure when Moten bumped it up, but 650-700 (before debuff) is closer to correct. Either way I would be capped.
Quote:
EnDRK last for 3min. Is the fight long or short? You keep changing that up.
Quote:
Here are the sets I used, where should I add DA,TA,QA?
Quote:
Fighters roll also plays better to /sam with DAs diminishing returns.
You are probably noobing up Chaos roll and using the standard 25% average and not factoring in DRK bonus to Chaos. I used 30% Average which is pretty conservative.
Stp is always helping DPS with top buffs. Whether its WS frequency or excess TP. JA delay can be minimized, you know that. Sekka is one WS (3000 damage?) per round. 7str is 2fstr.
Even with my limit darkmagic set, EnDRK last longer then any VW fight should.
Stp is always helping DPS with top buffs. Whether its WS frequency or excess TP. JA delay can be minimized, you know that. Sekka is one WS (3000 damage?) per round. 7str is 2fstr.
Even with my limit darkmagic set, EnDRK last longer then any VW fight should.
[+]
Had chaos at 27%, still only 1437 with 30% well below 1542.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
I carry around a dark magic set and never end fights with it up, no clue what to tell you there. I'd have to have like an average enspell damage of over 100 for it to last an entire fight, and that's being really conservative.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
Quote:
Even with my limit darkmagic set, EnDRK last longer then any VW fight should.
Asura.Failaras said: »
Had chaos at 27%, still only 1437 with 30% well below 1542.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
I carry around a dark magic set and never end fights with it up, no clue what to tell you there. I'd have to have like an average enspell damage of over 100 for it to last an entire fight, and that's being really conservative.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
Quote:
Even with my limit darkmagic set, EnDRK last longer then any VW fight should.
I posted the math behind my attack values. Care to point out the difference? Take enDRK out and I'm still capped up to 655 def. Sekka/Med/SE are stacked to maximize their effectiveness.
[+]
What i get from this is that youre assuming you have full buffs, or at least a cor. so in cases where you dont have a cor (which you dont really know till you get there or youre running the show) atk isnt capped. unless youre doing PW on my server its very hit and miss if youll see any buffs let alone optimal.
Havent been doing much vw so no testing between the 2 yet
Havent been doing much vw so no testing between the 2 yet
Couldn't tell you the last time I didn't have a COR. Definitely have done some BRDless/Embravaless VW though. But if you are doing the fights where /war would have the edge you'd be crazy not to have some sort of attack buff. (PW,Ig,Morta,Rex,Bis)
My only point is the days of /war only left somewhere between 99cap and NN gear. A lot of people are popping Zerk/Agressor and think just because their engine sounds louder that they have more horsepower.
My only point is the days of /war only left somewhere between 99cap and NN gear. A lot of people are popping Zerk/Agressor and think just because their engine sounds louder that they have more horsepower.
[+]
Playing devil's advocate here but if you're attack capped SAM sub because of Chaos Roll then you could switch Chaos Roll to Samurai Roll (or something else) when WAR sub.
Personally I usually sub WAR and (sometimes) use Deluges to replicate the SAM sub STP when in VW. There's no guarantee I'll get a COR and the difference between /WAR + /SAM with no COR is greater than the reverse with a COR.
Not necessarily saying /WAR sub is better it's just Asura has a bad habit of not letting you know wtf is in your party until you actually get to the pop so it's easier to just WAR sub and forget about it. It's generally 50/50 whether you get a COR or a BRD although a few of the shouters give the better DD's both which is always nice.
The argument itself seems pretty pointless to me. You're arguing about what is better when the answer is buff dependent whilst the content you're using is subject to a decent degree of randomness in regards to what buffs you receive.
Personally I usually sub WAR and (sometimes) use Deluges to replicate the SAM sub STP when in VW. There's no guarantee I'll get a COR and the difference between /WAR + /SAM with no COR is greater than the reverse with a COR.
Not necessarily saying /WAR sub is better it's just Asura has a bad habit of not letting you know wtf is in your party until you actually get to the pop so it's easier to just WAR sub and forget about it. It's generally 50/50 whether you get a COR or a BRD although a few of the shouters give the better DD's both which is always nice.
The argument itself seems pretty pointless to me. You're arguing about what is better when the answer is buff dependent whilst the content you're using is subject to a decent degree of randomness in regards to what buffs you receive.
80% of VW pickups I get into will split up the COR and BRD, if there is even a cor or BRD at all. Sometimes there isn't one or only just 1. I was in an Ig-Alima last night as DRK and the only buffs were two Minuets. In the Provenance run before that the COR gave Miser's and Tact. It took a while to convince him to change his roll.
My complaining aside, When the embrava adjustment goes live the case for /SAM should get even stronger I'd think.
My complaining aside, When the embrava adjustment goes live the case for /SAM should get even stronger I'd think.
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Asura.Failaras said: »
Had chaos at 27%, still only 1437 with 30% well below 1542.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
I carry around a dark magic set and never end fights with it up, no clue what to tell you there. I'd have to have like an average enspell damage of over 100 for it to last an entire fight, and that's being really conservative.
STP is helping, but barely. JA delay can be minimized, but is still there and for a relatively shitty 60 TP gain. The only leg /sam has to stand on is Sekka, which is nice, but it isn't 10% DA nice. the 7 STR is okay too, I think someone pointed out it's actually 5 though compared to /war.
Quote:
Even with my limit darkmagic set, EnDRK last longer then any VW fight should.
I posted the math behind my attack values. Care to point out the difference? Take enDRK out and I'm still capped up to 655 def. Sekka/Med/SE are stacked to maximize their effectiveness.
Quote:
Playing devil's advocate here but if you're attack capped SAM sub because of Chaos Roll then you could switch Chaos Roll to Samurai Roll (or something else) when WAR sub.
Fighters,Misers - showing /war winning on Tier6 and /sam wiping the floor on Qilin or lower. (not factoring med/sekka ofcourse)
Ig /sam (have to TP in Armada/Letalis and WS in Letalis)
/war (same sets already posted)
Ig /sam (have to TP in Armada/Letalis and WS in Letalis)
/war (same sets already posted)
Can you post either the spreadsheet or more details of what you've entered?
Not saying it's wrong but when I replicate it in my spreadsheet for my Rounds/WS is nowhere near your rounds/WS so something is differing. This is for /WAR (not tried /SAM). So I must be filling in something different to you but I filled it in exactly as you have above (Assuming you set the Discipline/Misers Save TP just by setting overall Save TP to 40 and not toggling on Misers at all).
(Wasn't entering it because I didn't believe you btw. I wanted to see how Deluges compared and there was a huge difference between the two which left me scratching my head so I tried replicating what you entered to see if I'd missed a buff off or something.)
Not saying it's wrong but when I replicate it in my spreadsheet for my Rounds/WS is nowhere near your rounds/WS so something is differing. This is for /WAR (not tried /SAM). So I must be filling in something different to you but I filled it in exactly as you have above (Assuming you set the Discipline/Misers Save TP just by setting overall Save TP to 40 and not toggling on Misers at all).
(Wasn't entering it because I didn't believe you btw. I wanted to see how Deluges compared and there was a huge difference between the two which left me scratching my head so I tried replicating what you entered to see if I'd missed a buff off or something.)
Asura.Jem said: »
Can you post either the spreadsheet or more details of what you've entered?
Not saying it's wrong but when I replicate it in my spreadsheet for my Rounds/WS is nowhere near your rounds/WS so something is differing. This is for /WAR (not tried /SAM). So I must be filling in something different to you but I filled it in exactly as you have above (Assuming you set the Discipline/Misers Save TP just by setting overall Save TP to 40 and not toggling on Misers at all).
(Wasn't entering it because I didn't believe you btw. I wanted to see how Deluges compared and there was a huge difference between the two which left me scratching my head so I tried replicating what you entered to see if I'd missed a buff off or something.)
Not saying it's wrong but when I replicate it in my spreadsheet for my Rounds/WS is nowhere near your rounds/WS so something is differing. This is for /WAR (not tried /SAM). So I must be filling in something different to you but I filled it in exactly as you have above (Assuming you set the Discipline/Misers Save TP just by setting overall Save TP to 40 and not toggling on Misers at all).
(Wasn't entering it because I didn't believe you btw. I wanted to see how Deluges compared and there was a huge difference between the two which left me scratching my head so I tried replicating what you entered to see if I'd missed a buff off or something.)
What more would you like? And yeah I default the save TP to 40 (used as an average)
There isn't anything else to toggle except gear and I provided that on the other post.
Just let me know and I'll provide it.
Edit: I had fighters set to 20%, 15% might be a better number. (doesn't change the result)
Doesn't war need chaos roll to cap attack on ig-alima and such wich mean you'll never be able to use miser unless you go drk drk drk or have a 99 harp/horn brd ?
But yeah I had similar result for drk miser/fighter being always the best roll if applicable, if no miser I go for deluge/vaillant/lat.
But yeah I had similar result for drk miser/fighter being always the best roll if applicable, if no miser I go for deluge/vaillant/lat.
Asura.Ccl said: »
Doesn't war need chaos roll to cap attack on ig-alima and such wich mean you'll never be able to use miser unless you go drk drk drk or have a 99 harp/horn brd ?
But yeah I had similar result for drk miser/fighter being always the best roll if applicable, if no miser I go for deluge/vaillant/lat.
But yeah I had similar result for drk miser/fighter being always the best roll if applicable, if no miser I go for deluge/vaillant/lat.
Yeah WAR more then likely does, which was part of my argument since most buffs revolve around Ukon WARs. DRK has high ATT/ACC and flexibility to swap gear around depending on the situation.
[+]
Damn Ukon wars, ruining it for everybody.
finally got around to getting a parse program and doing a x6 qilin run on /sam (new to it so not sure how to post up details yet)
highlights:
-did 30% total dmg only dieing on the last fight (32 before death)
-done with rag, crit rate 40%
-total dmg 350k (215k~ ws dmg)
-small sample but showed 100% acc (thats rare)
-had brd + cor, whm drk(me) sam drk in the pt
-got the exact same party for a 2nd run and tryed /war but died back to back so stopped parsing
when i get more time ill try to parse both subs again, i chose qilin since its the most common shout on the server, and seems to be the best middle man for testing, anything higher id probably /war anyway to ensure caps
this reminded me why i hate parsing. seeing your stats is fun, seeing #2 in parse being 10-13% behind is not
highlights:
-did 30% total dmg only dieing on the last fight (32 before death)
-done with rag, crit rate 40%
-total dmg 350k (215k~ ws dmg)
-small sample but showed 100% acc (thats rare)
-had brd + cor, whm drk(me) sam drk in the pt
-got the exact same party for a 2nd run and tryed /war but died back to back so stopped parsing
when i get more time ill try to parse both subs again, i chose qilin since its the most common shout on the server, and seems to be the best middle man for testing, anything higher id probably /war anyway to ensure caps
this reminded me why i hate parsing. seeing your stats is fun, seeing #2 in parse being 10-13% behind is not
[+]
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »
finally got around to getting a parse program and doing a x6 qilin run on /sam (new to it so not sure how to post up details yet)
highlights:
-did 30% total dmg only dieing on the last fight (32 before death)
-done with rag, crit rate 40%
-total dmg 350k (215k~ ws dmg)
-small sample but showed 100% acc (thats rare)
-had brd + cor, whm drk(me) sam drk in the pt
-got the exact same party for a 2nd run and tryed /war but died back to back so stopped parsing
when i get more time ill try to parse both subs again, i chose qilin since its the most common shout on the server, and seems to be the best middle man for testing, anything higher id probably /war anyway to ensure caps
this reminded me why i hate parsing. seeing your stats is fun, seeing #2 in parse being 10-13% behind is not
highlights:
-did 30% total dmg only dieing on the last fight (32 before death)
-done with rag, crit rate 40%
-total dmg 350k (215k~ ws dmg)
-small sample but showed 100% acc (thats rare)
-had brd + cor, whm drk(me) sam drk in the pt
-got the exact same party for a 2nd run and tryed /war but died back to back so stopped parsing
when i get more time ill try to parse both subs again, i chose qilin since its the most common shout on the server, and seems to be the best middle man for testing, anything higher id probably /war anyway to ensure caps
this reminded me why i hate parsing. seeing your stats is fun, seeing #2 in parse being 10-13% behind is not
10% of 30 = 3 so if 27% is bad then idk what to say.
sometimes i just dont know if i can take you seriously lol
Hmm, you said #2 is 10% behind didn't you?
if i did 30% from 100%, 10-13% behind would be 20-17% respectively out of 100.... didnt think that really required explaining
So you're not 10% behind but 10 pts behind or w/e you call it.
That's a huge difference.
If you do 30% and I do 15%, I do half your dmg so I'm 50% behind or you're 100% ahead, but I'm 15 pts behind and you're 15 pts ahead.
That's a huge difference.
If you do 30% and I do 15%, I do half your dmg so I'm 50% behind or you're 100% ahead, but I'm 15 pts behind and you're 15 pts ahead.
Cerberus.Detzu said: »
So you're not 10% behind but 10 pts behind or w/e you call it.
That's a huge difference.
If you do 30% and I do 15%, I do half your dmg so I'm 50% behind or you're 100% ahead, but I'm 15 pts behind and you're 15 pts ahead.
That's a huge difference.
If you do 30% and I do 15%, I do half your dmg so I'm 50% behind or you're 100% ahead, but I'm 15 pts behind and you're 15 pts ahead.
He was talkinga bout the overall parse results.
He parsed 30%
Next guy parsed 17%
30%-17% = 13%
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