The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Asura.Biglovin
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By Asura.Biglovin 2020-10-21 16:39:14
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my least favorite is fistule, if even 1 person is camping too its forever
 Asura.Biglovin
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By Asura.Biglovin 2020-10-21 16:41:37
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at least sissy frags can be bought if you want
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-21 21:22:56
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No way, I'm with Austar on this! Chloris/Glavoid are the worrrrrssst.

But KANNAGI GO GO Sechs! :D

P.S. - LOGICAL MAKE NAGI K?
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-10-21 22:23:38
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Since ol'Capu mentioned it:

Hoo MFing WAaaaaaaaahhhhhh, KANNAGI, my very first REMA ever! In the arsenal! Only took 9+ years start to finish (still needs the final JP stage, but mmmmmmMMMMMmMMMmmsss that aftermaths!). Big shout out to my BannedChildrenDeux family, I am humbled that you pimp masters are having fun in the shell and smacking that Aeonic cycle *** left and right. Mirdain you're the hoss my good sir, thanks again for all the help!

W.E.T.S.U.Kupo!!!

Thinking on cutting my teeth on Nagi next.

(Ha, just back read some of this thread, compared to the original days when these were a grind, empys are easy, just give yourself a daily quota, 10 helms a night is a breeze. 10 horns takes a bit longer, but there is very little running the circuit on that one. Mythic seems daunting to me. But I have yet to start one so who knows, and Ergon fuggetaboutit, I'll get an Epo when I get a monbreux, in about another 5+ years, but hey, I savor the journey so whatevs.)
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 Gilgamesh.Daviant
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By Gilgamesh.Daviant 2020-10-22 20:29:16
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how up to date are the gearsets on the first page?
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-10-23 01:46:43
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Gilgamesh.Daviant said: »
how up to date are the gearsets on the first page?
The basics of the job are pretty similar, you probably can find some improvements since those sets have been updated, GL BiSing, it could take quite the selection of the collection, you don't have to BiS to win content at the job if you are on it, have fun, enjoy ninjer.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-23 07:40:03
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What's your average Blade: Chi damage in a zone like Divergence - Bastok and which buffs/debuffs do you use to achieve that?

Yesterday I used it exclusively on Red Eyes NMs in W1 and W2 with Idris Malaise and Idris Frailty, Berserk, 2 Minuets, Honor March, and my AVG was lower than I remembered it to be.
Like 15k average or a bit more.
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By pawnoee 2020-10-23 08:02:14
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Blade:chi average of 35k with cor (war & sam rolls), brd (att+ & acc+), no geo on w1 and w2.
Highest proc was 59k Blade:To and 60k Tachi:jinpu.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-23 09:57:25
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That's really high compared to my numbers and, differently from you, I had Idris Malaise/Frailty.
No COR rolls but still...

My Chi set is not BiS but then again it's the best with the gear I possess, I recently updated the set using Simon's spreadsheet to pick the best items in my possession for each slot =/

Pretty big difference. I was surprised myself honestly.
And you say you were getting those numbers in Bastok, right?


It's not even a matter of Eye colours because I was using Hybrid on Red Eyes only, where eye colour doesn't matter.
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By pawnoee 2020-10-23 11:04:06
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Here's my set:
ItemSet 376206

Main heishi, Offhand gotokai

Augments:
Herculean Vest : Mag.Atk.Bns. +30
Herculean Gloves : Mag.Atk.Bns. +37
Herculean Boots : Mag. Acc.+10 Mag.Atk.Bns.+23, Weapon skill damage +3%
Andartia's Mantle : STR+20,Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20,Weapon skill damage +10%

Edit: bastok and jeuno, blue eyed statues (and hybrids as well).
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By SimonSes 2020-10-23 11:47:11
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The difference in WS damage against trash in dynamis jeuno and bastok and NMs in Bastok is MASSIVE and specifically Jeuno trash vs Bastok NMs is MASSIVE++
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By pawnoee 2020-10-23 11:52:49
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SimonSes said: »
The difference in WS damage against trash in dynamis jeuno and bastok and NMs in Bastok is MASSIVE and specifically Jeuno trash vs Bastok NMs is MASSIVE++

True, for statues/Statues NMs i stick to Blade: Ei, for other NMs it's just back tanking with utsu spam (which works pretty well actually even with REMA DDs).
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-23 12:07:21
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SimonSes said: »
The difference in WS damage against trash in dynamis jeuno and bastok and NMs in Bastok is MASSIVE and specifically Jeuno trash vs Bastok NMs is MASSIVE++
Eh, so it's a matter of Bastok being a *** then.
I'll try again in another zone next run.

I haven't been on NIN in ages but I was quite surprised to see my Hybrid shoot so low with the amount/type of buffs I had =/
I remembered having much higher average in the past with the old (worse) WSset, but clearly I was in another zone.
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By Keefsosa 2020-10-23 16:00:13
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pawnoee said: »
Here's my set:
ItemSet 376206

Main heishi, Offhand gotokai

Augments:
Herculean Vest : Mag.Atk.Bns. +30
Herculean Gloves : Mag.Atk.Bns. +37
Herculean Boots : Mag. Acc.+10 Mag.Atk.Bns.+23, Weapon skill damage +3%
Andartia's Mantle : STR+20,Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20,Weapon skill damage +10%

Edit: bastok and jeuno, blue eyed statues (and hybrids as well).
Oh this is dope, definitely gonna try this out!
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-27 13:25:08
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A Guide to Ninja Episode 23 is out covering accuracy gearsets.
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Thunderjet 2020-10-27 15:42:42
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Keefsosa said: »
pawnoee said: »
Here's my set:
ItemSet 376206

Main heishi, Offhand gotokai

Augments:
Herculean Vest : Mag.Atk.Bns. +30
Herculean Gloves : Mag.Atk.Bns. +37
Herculean Boots : Mag. Acc.+10 Mag.Atk.Bns.+23, Weapon skill damage +3%
Andartia's Mantle : STR+20,Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20,Weapon skill damage +10%

Edit: bastok and jeuno, blue eyed statues (and hybrids as well).
Oh this is dope, definitely gonna try this out!


omg thats exactly like mine except i use EP ring
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-27 19:54:13
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
A Guide to Ninja Episode 23 is out covering accuracy gearsets.

As usual, I pretty much agree with Logical. A few more detailed discussion points.

1) Another good offhand acc alternative that Logical didn't mention is Ternion +1 (augmented). Because the Acc+67 applies to both main and offhand, it's actually the second biggest boost to mainhand accuracy from an offhand (only 10 behind Shigi). Ternion +1 has some substantial additional offensive benefits in WSD+5%, TA+4%, and DMG+19/Delay-15 versus Shigi, balanced with some sacrifice in significantly lower offhand acc (Acc-52) and Racc (Racc-38).

Especially for some weapons where mainhand TP hits are more meaningful, giving more value to mainhand acc (while considering other non-acc factors next) may be a better approach. Kannagi AM3 getting a lot of its damage out of mainhand-only AM3 crit procs, Nagi or Fudo Masamune B having more frequent swings (and also additional white damage) with that hand, etc.

FWIW, my naked /checkparam with Heishi and the following offhands (below numbers are mainhand acc/offhand acc):
Shigi (aug): 886/849
Ternion +1 R15: 876/797
Gokotai: 860/843
Fudo Masamune: 859/859

2) TBH, these days I find it hard to justify use of Shigi due to the substantial non-Acc bonuses from other high Acc choices (whether Ternion, Fudo, or Gokotai). If you're suffering that badly on acc, it's probably more of a buff/food issue than a matter of swapping your weapon. If I really wanted a very Acc focused setup, I'm probably going Fudo B/Fudo C (best all-around performance, IMO) for weapons... or RMEA main/offhand Fudo (except that for Kannagi I'd prob pair it with Ternion +1).

3) My thinking around Acc is that if I need to gear for super heavy accuracy, I'd just go with Malignance gear in those slots. It may not be the very best in each slot, but on anything so hard that I can't hit it, I'm likely to also be concerned about how much those mobs can hurt ME. So the DT-/Meva from Maligance is super useful in those scenarios.

4) For Daken, keep in mind that Daken procs get a Racc+100 bonus. So if you're trying to keep melee and ranged acc close, you can get away with lower /checkparam Ranged Accuracy and still do that.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-28 02:56:17
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Ternion BiS OH for Kannagi MH users!11!'11!one
No but seriously, havent't tested it but wouldn't be surprised to see Ternion+1 win as BiS OH for Kannagi MH.

Now we could be discussing about lolkannagiMH and I wouldn't have anything to say against it, really
xD
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-28 08:39:31
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Phoenix.Logical said: »
A Guide to Ninja Episode 23 is out covering accuracy gearsets.

As usual, I pretty much agree with Logical. A few more detailed discussion points.

1) Another good offhand acc alternative that Logical didn't mention is Ternion +1 (augmented). Because the Acc+67 applies to both main and offhand, it's actually the second biggest boost to mainhand accuracy from an offhand (only 10 behind Shigi). Ternion +1 has some substantial additional offensive benefits in WSD+5%, TA+4%, and DMG+19/Delay-15 versus Shigi, balanced with some sacrifice in significantly lower offhand acc (Acc-52) and Racc (Racc-38).

Especially for some weapons where mainhand TP hits are more meaningful, giving more value to mainhand acc (while considering other non-acc factors next) may be a better approach. Kannagi AM3 getting a lot of its damage out of mainhand-only AM3 crit procs, Nagi or Fudo Masamune B having more frequent swings (and also additional white damage) with that hand, etc.

FWIW, my naked /checkparam with Heishi and the following offhands (below numbers are mainhand acc/offhand acc):
Shigi (aug): 886/849
Ternion +1 R15: 876/797
Gokotai: 860/843
Fudo Masamune: 859/859

2) TBH, these days I find it hard to justify use of Shigi due to the substantial non-Acc bonuses from other high Acc choices (whether Ternion, Fudo, or Gokotai). If you're suffering that badly on acc, it's probably more of a buff/food issue than a matter of swapping your weapon. If I really wanted a very Acc focused setup, I'm probably going Fudo B/Fudo C (best all-around performance, IMO) for weapons... or RMEA main/offhand Fudo (except that for Kannagi I'd prob pair it with Ternion +1).

3) My thinking around Acc is that if I need to gear for super heavy accuracy, I'd just go with Malignance gear in those slots. It may not be the very best in each slot, but on anything so hard that I can't hit it, I'm likely to also be concerned about how much those mobs can hurt ME. So the DT-/Meva from Maligance is super useful in those scenarios.

4) For Daken, keep in mind that Daken procs get a Racc+100 bonus. So if you're trying to keep melee and ranged acc close, you can get away with lower /checkparam Ranged Accuracy and still do that.

Yea I didn't bring up the Ternion because of all the Accuracy you lose in that offhand (over 50). Since this was an Elite Accuracy set I couldn't really justify it. That being said, I don't really consider weapons parts of these sets even though I do mention them. I wouldn't be caught dead in Heishi/Shigi as I have way too much Accuracy for that to be needed. However if someone was missing a ton of these pieces and maybe only had Kendatsuba NQ set... I could see them needing that Shigi's accuracy. So anyway you have a solid point and frankly I use a dagger in offhand about 2/3 of the time so if you have the rest of the pieces your absolutely right it's overkill and your losing DPS there.
 Asura.Psylo
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By Asura.Psylo 2020-10-28 09:07:42
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Could you made a new video about Sword Ninja because i get the best result in dyna with sword spaming Savage blade than ever katana ws ...

ok its cool to get a constant 50/60K ws but why with a sword ...
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-28 09:19:31
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Asura.Psylo said: »
Could you made a new video about Sword Ninja because i get the best result in dyna with sword spaming Savage blade than ever katana ws ...

ok its cool to get a constant 50/60K ws but why with a sword ...

If you go back about two pages on this thread you will see a Savage Blade video I did about two weeks ago covering this. That should have what you need and yes Naegling and Savage Blade is quite broken when you are fully buffed.
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-10-28 11:30:05
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Asura.Psylo said: »
Could you made a new video about Sword Ninja because i get the best result in dyna with sword spaming Savage blade than ever katana ws ...

ok its cool to get a constant 50/60K ws but why with a sword ...
Boooo, katanas for life! GTFO with that nonsense.
(It's a joke, don't be a Linda)
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By SimonSes 2020-10-28 12:45:09
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Asura.Psylo said: »
Could you made a new video about Sword Ninja because i get the best result in dyna with sword spaming Savage blade than ever katana ws ...

ok its cool to get a constant 50/60K ws but why with a sword ...
Boooo, katanas for life! GTFO with that nonsense.
(It's a joke, don't be a Linda)

Jokes aside I dont get hype for Savage in Dynamis. If you are buffed, hybrid are much better in Jeuno and probably also in Bastok. When physical is only option, :Ten should be super close to Savage (or probably higher, when you cant use hitaki offhand?), while having much better WS frequency. Lastly NMs has WS wall for repeated WSs and Savage is already widely used by many jobs.
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 Asura.Cicion
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By Asura.Cicion 2020-10-28 18:34:16
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No ten doesn't hold a candle to savage sadly. With naegling savage has slightly better ftp mods is a 50/50 Str/Mnd mod vs 30/30%, Str,Dex. Lots of stat vomit on Naeg, cap att easier with naeg even with C sword skill with latent and for extra acc 50ish acc for Hitaki offhandhits. To me i find i'm doing 6-10k more damage with savage vs ten spam, usually enough to oneshot most wave 1 trash.

Like i love my Heishi Shorinken and i'v messed with offhand hitaki for my r15 and i find your just overtping to much with sam roll on and savage spam still beating ten out. Yes hybrid WS is amazing but most of the time if you can make it work but i find only really hitting amazing damage when geos have Boged or Bolstered Frail and malaise on said nms or Aerix its hitting capped or near capped damage. I'll swap to chi spam on wave 3 boss no questions asked and fetters. Only jobs really using savage blade is the rdm if its meleeing in a dd pt getting big boi buffs and croc isn't the way for today till you get to certian nms or fetters, cors but they usually leaden things and brds.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-28 18:54:00
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Asura.Cicion said: »
i find only really hitting amazing damage when geos have Boged or Bolstered Frail and malaise on said nms or Aerix its hitting capped or near capped damage.

Two points:

1) Hilarious that you obviously meant Aurix (the goblin), but said Aerix (the FFXIAH poster)!

2) Very much agree that you need both magical and physical buffs to make Blade: Chi worth it. IDK if it really NEEDS BoG/Bolster, but yeah... some combo of strong Acumen/Malaise, Wizard's Roll, etc. PLUS attack boosts from Minuets, Frailty, Fury, Chaos, etc... Savage is a heck of a lot easier to buff for in a typical melee party, I don't really feel like an out of party Geo-Malaise bubble quite cuts it. And IMO, having other Savage Blade users doesn't really matter for most of the event - it is important on the boss NMs, but not for farming wave 1-3. So spam Savage till then?

Personally, I don't tend to run into flawless buffs for Dyna, since my Dyna alliances tend to be constructed to include enough "required" jobs (tanks, healers, and an adequate amount of support jobs) and then some flexibility to allow people to get clears/rank points on their desired jobs. Might also be some people getting carried to some extent - people trying to improve, people who returned to the game and don't have top end gear, etc. It's not really content where I expect I will get an absolutely ideal setup for NIN buffs.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Ternion BiS OH for Kannagi MH users!11!'11!one
No but seriously, havent't tested it but wouldn't be surprised to see Ternion+1 win as BiS OH for Kannagi MH.

Ternion +1 is absolutely great as an offhand for ALL mainhand katanas, but the gap between it and 2nd place is even bigger for Kannagi (Blade: Hi loves that extra AGI and WSD). These days it's my default offhand in any situation, only swapping it out for:

1) TP Bonus katana in certain situations. Naegling Savage Blade spam, Heishi Ten spam, some Nagi setups (Nagi/Hitaki is also pretty great for Ten spam, very underrated IMO but that's more due to relatively few people having Nagi)

2) Fudo Masamune for a heavier Acc/Racc build

3) An ambuscade weapon (or maybe Fudo) if I have a significant nuke focus. If I really care mainly about backline nukes for a particular NM, I'll prob go Gotokai/Tauret. For some stuff where I'm mostly meleeing but also want to tack on some MBs, I'll go RMEA mainhand and either Tauret (best nukes) or Fudo Masamune (good nukes, better atk to reach cap). Fudo's pretty nice for scenarios where I'm using a more hybrid-style set when I am more likely to not be hitting atk cap when accounting for PDL+ from Malignance + JSE neck).

Total tangent here, but that's another nifty Nagi use that I've been getting a lot of mileage out of: "hybrid" setups where you want to use Malignance set, which synergizes really nice with Mythic AM3 from a STP standpoint for DPS while also being a little more study with DT-/Meva (and hey, Nagi's Enm+ may be helpful if you're attempting to hold some hate). Nagi/Fudo is pretty nice for that. That being said, if I'm completely tanking focused I'll go with Fudo C.

In conclusion, make Nagi!
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By SimonSes 2020-10-28 20:16:52
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Asura.Cicion said: »
No ten doesn't hold a candle to savage sadly. With naegling savage has slightly better ftp mods is a 50/50 Str/Mnd mod vs 30/30%, Str,Dex. Lots of stat vomit on Naeg, cap att easier with naeg even with C sword skill with latent and for extra acc 50ish acc for Hitaki offhandhits. To me i find i'm doing 6-10k more damage with savage vs ten spam, usually enough to oneshot most wave 1 trash.

Like i love my Heishi Shorinken and i'v messed with offhand hitaki for my r15 and i find your just overtping to much with sam roll on and savage spam still beating ten out. Yes hybrid WS is amazing but most of the time if you can make it work but i find only really hitting amazing damage when geos have Boged or Bolstered Frail and malaise on said nms or Aerix its hitting capped or near capped damage. I'll swap to chi spam on wave 3 boss no questions asked and fetters. Only jobs really using savage blade is the rdm if its meleeing in a dd pt getting big boi buffs and croc isn't the way for today till you get to certian nms or fetters, cors but they usually leaden things and brds.

Jokey, who did video explaining hybrid WSs, was constantly doing 99k damage with :Chi in Jeuno on wave 1 trash WITHOUT any GEO buffs and he said he subbed WAR so he can contnue doing cap damage on wave 2, only because they were missing GEO. So I dont really buy that frailty/malaise is a need. It might be needed for cap damage on NMs, not fodders tho. Naegling and Savage is not even close in Jeuno. Im not sure about Bastok. Its hard to tell, but I would love to see how it would be at blue eyed statue's trash. Windurst and Sandoria are bad for hybrid WSs, because bonuses/penalties to magic or physical damage will cancel each other out.

Now about :Ten vs Savage. Savage will do better damage at samage effective TP thresholds, but unless you have lags and you dont know how to get around it (In laggy scenario you can usually click WS macro before you even have 1000TP and it will register in the right moment to WS after you get enough TP) you should always be at significantly higher effective TP with :Ten, because you have +1750TP bonus instead of +1250. If you constantly let your TP reach 1750, then no wonder you have Savage hitting much better numbers. You are wasting 500TP bonus on Heishi/Hitaki combo tho. WS frequency should also be much better with Heishi, because it has 10 more store TP, better delay (which is even more important on NIN, because of Daken activation). There is also option to use Nagi or Path B Fudo, both giving significant improvement in WS frequency, but lowers TP bonus to 1250.

Lastly at wave 3, you cant really use Hitaki and then Heishi should be much better with ilvl offhand, because that 500TP bonus is much more significant with absence of 1000TP bonus from Hitaki.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-29 03:05:53
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
2) Very much agree that you need both magical and physical buffs to make Blade: Chi worth it.
I posted my experience of a few days ago in Bastok. I was using Chi (tried To and Teki too, but same results) only on Red Eyes NMs.
I had Idris Malaise and Frailty, 2 or 3 Minuets (I don't remember, sorry), Honor March, Berserk.
With these buffs, damage was... kinda meh.
But someone said it was a problem with the Bastok Red Eyes mostly.
I'll try again in a different zone next time.
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By SimonSes 2020-10-29 03:26:24
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
2) Very much agree that you need both magical and physical buffs to make Blade: Chi worth it.
I posted my experience of a few days ago in Bastok. I was using Chi (tried To and Teki too, but same results) only on Red Eyes NMs.
I had Idris Malaise and Frailty, 2 or 3 Minuets (I don't remember, sorry), Honor March, Berserk.
With these buffs, damage was... kinda meh.
But someone said it was a problem with the Bastok Red Eyes mostly.
I'll try again in a different zone next time.

Its not a problem with Bastok's Red eyes, but all red eyes. Tho quadavs in general seems to also have higher def than other beastmens (just eyeballing tho).

Blue eyes bastok mobs has "+30% Element: Dark / Element: Ice / Element: Earth / Element: Water based physical/magical attacks and spells" which should result in hybrid WSs getting +69% damage bonus, because it a separate boost for physical and magical part, so its basically double dipping on those bonuses. In Jeuno on blue eyes it will be +125% damage bonus (thats why Jokey was able to hit cap damage so easily). Red Eyes statues NMs doesnt have any of those bonuses, while also probably having higher def, mdb and resist to geomancy, which result in much lower Hybrid damage. Its possible that Hybrid might not be best for NMs at that point and you should simply use Ten, but its possible its really only true for Quadavs in Bastok, because from eyeballing, NMs in other cities seems to be more squishy.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-29 17:35:46
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KANNAGI DONEEEEEE
iwish, I just got to the level 85 stage lol


I tried Ninja Again with same Chi Blast in Jeuno.
On trash I spiked a 93k o.O
And several >70k
But on average I was around 50k I'd say, maybe a bit lower.
On Wave2 of course damage was lower but still very nice.
Still, damage was pretty nice on trash, and no Malaise there.


On the NMs the damage I got was pretty much the same I got from bastok.
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 Asura.Psylo
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By Asura.Psylo 2020-10-29 17:56:45
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woo without malaise, nice you should have a good set
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