The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-17 14:31:14
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Exactely my point, Capu >______>''

/highfive Capuchin
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-17 19:26:48
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Aagk is actually very easy on ninja. Just blade shun the wyvern when he pops and shadow maintenance is simple.

That aside, I'm not really sure happo is even that optimal anymore. Date shrunken is 26 base damage higher, and has 242 skill vs 228. I'm only 1/5 sange merits myself because it's not a priority, but why exactly are you still using happo+1? Is it actually superior dps vs date? Doesn't look like it to me. The only advantage I'm seeing is 6 attack, 1 accuracy, 2 critical hit rate. The ranged accuracy is a wash (and probably loss) from the missing skill. Not a huge numbers parser, maybe you compared them both. With all the critical gear ninja gets, is happo+1 even better than Date's 26 base damage? I know people don't care much for white numbers a lot, but during sange, that's a pretty big increase.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2020-10-17 20:21:02
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You can't even really use Happo +1 during Sange anyway since it consumes ammo so it's kind of a mute point to compare them for that use case.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-17 20:58:11
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Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-18 17:50:36
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Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-19 03:55:22
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.

Yeah I think you're right, Date should generally be best by a slight advantage over Seki or Happo +1.

I still have Happo +1 over Seki in my default Kannagi TP set (Ken+1 gear, maximizing crits with AM3 up). And I've been using Seki Shurkien with the other mainhands.

But Date seems to slightly beat them both in nearly any situation, according to my spreadsheet. I honestly just looked past it a bit when these DI rewards were new since there was a lot of other stuff for other jobs that made a more significant improvement, versus Date being a rather small incremental boost over existing shuriken. But yeah, now I have points to spare and I just forgot about the thing. Thanks for the reminder!
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 07:42:12
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.

Sadly the sets are just in the videos at this time but once I finish these last 6 sets I'm going to do a recap video that just quickly goes through all the sets for easy reference. Should be out sometime in December.
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 07:54:18
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.

That really is the question and sadly the Answer is DPS wise, No Happo +1's days are over.

In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Date and 22 DPS over Happo +1 so definitely ends up a distant third there.

In buffed situations I now show Date as king beating Seki by 44 DPS! Now in this sitaution Happo +1 does end up being more useful then Seki, being only 40 DPS behind Date but you should still be using Date with that huge difference.

So yea in both situations Happo +1 has been replaced. Now similar to Capuchin, when I'm going for a strong crit hit build there is a solid reason to still use it but really, that's about all these days.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 10:58:26
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.

Sadly the sets are just in the videos at this time but once I finish these last 6 sets I'm going to do a recap video that just quickly goes through all the sets for easy reference. Should be out sometime in December.
So sad :(((((((

I neeed theeeeeem
Noooooowwwwzzzzz
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 12:25:36
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Set is mostly the same, idk how updated they became after Odyssey stuff. There was only a handful of mab/mdmg/burst pieces.

free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3

burst swaps
Static Earring/Herculean hands, legs, feet (if you have DM augments), mujin band/locus ring/Samnuha Coat. R15 Warder's Charm depending on your MBB stat. Everything else stayed pretty much the same, you just pick the pieces to help you achieve the requisite burst+%
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 12:27:07
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I wanted to thank SimonSes for the Hybrid WS spreadsheet.
With that I found out that I had better options available for some slots.
Like Rawhide Vest beating my Samnuha Coat for instance, or Fotia Neck/Belt beating the options I had there (Sanctity Necklace and Engraved Belt), and other little things like this.

Thanks again!
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 12:30:43
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3
Are you sure on the rings?
Is Dingir inferior to both options?
Alternatives for Gyve doublet?

And for the cape specifically
INT+30, Macc/Mdmg+20, Mab+10
vs
INT+20, Macc+20,Mdmg+30, Mab+10
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 12:46:56
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Logical's sets shows Dingir is inferior unless prioritizing Ni damage, which is about 10 dps higher than metamorph. Check the video for his numbers for each. Downgrades for Gyve - rawhide vest, herculean vest. Cape appears to win with INT vs mdmg.

body numbers: 10:00 mark
Ring comparison: 15:00 mark
Cape - INT 30: 16:00 mark

YouTube Video Placeholder
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 16:23:03
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Seki and 22 DPS over Happo +1

I assumed this first Seki is supposed to be Date?

And yes, there is a crit (Mammols/Sahagin Part 1) ambuscade that involve breaking auras with crits, so in that case, 2 crit rate > 5 DEX, so for similar objective builds, you could hang onto Happo +1. I am still not saying Sange is worth much of anything, especially with the better options for Group 2 Merits. But if the reasoning behind not meritting sange was fear of losing that shuriken, that should no longer be a problem. I happen to still use Sange in low haste (DW) builds where I need quick tp, so it has mediocre use (1/5 is enough)
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By SimonSes 2020-10-19 16:50:21
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Set is mostly the same, idk how updated they became after Odyssey stuff. There was only a handful of mab/mdmg/burst pieces.

free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3

burst swaps
Static Earring/Herculean hands, legs, feet (if you have DM augments), mujin band/locus ring/Samnuha Coat. R15 Warder's Charm depending on your MBB stat. Everything else stayed pretty much the same, you just pick the pieces to help you achieve the requisite burst+%

Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

You would need some ridiculous DM feet augment to beat Magic Burst nuke with relic+3 with 5/5 merits or AF+3 without merits. Especially when outside of raw damage power, both also have massive macc. For free nukes, not even 50mab DM augmented feet can beat 5/5 relic+3 feet.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 17:55:24
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SimonSes said: »
Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

MAB+30, Macc+33 is not "pretty bad", idk how you can make that statement. If you're saying you can get better with Herculean, sure, GL with that. You'd be able to put 10 more MAB (+40), 10 INT (24 total), and 8 more Macc (40 total), that sounds like god tier augments for a free nuke set, which you would mostly use Empyrean+1 for when Futae is ready anyways. I've all but stopped trying to augment Herculean for MAB, but I have no idea how you consider those augments "easy" to get.

For my MB set, my herc feet have 44 MAB (54 total) and 19 Macc (29 total). Between my legs (+13%MBB), hands (+15% MBB) and MB rings (10%), I'm at 38% MB1, so for me, Artifact +3 feet only contribute 2% MBB to the cap, and have significantly worse MB than my Herculean feet. IMO, Artifact3 feet are not that good. I mentioned Kyahan +3 as the best option, as the video highlights, but that is factoring 5/5 merits, which isn't always something people want to do for such a low priority action.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2020-10-19 18:05:13
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Sounds to me like you're only at 33 MB1.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 18:15:08
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I acknowledged the Static Earring in my previous post, but mistakenly wrote MB "rings 10%" instead of ring/earring
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 20:29:22
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Phoenix.Logical said: »
In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Seki and 22 DPS over Happo +1

I assumed this first Seki is supposed to be Date?

Woops... yes thanks fixed.
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By SimonSes 2020-10-20 03:17:10
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

MAB+30, Macc+33 is not "pretty bad", idk how you can make that statement. If you're saying you can get better with Herculean, sure, GL with that. You'd be able to put 10 more MAB (+40), 10 INT (24 total), and 8 more Macc (40 total), that sounds like god tier augments for a free nuke set, which you would mostly use Empyrean+1 for when Futae is ready anyways. I've all but stopped trying to augment Herculean for MAB, but I have no idea how you consider those augments "easy" to get.

For my MB set, my herc feet have 44 MAB (54 total) and 19 Macc (29 total). Between my legs (+13%MBB), hands (+15% MBB) and MB rings (10%), I'm at 38% MB1, so for me, Artifact +3 feet only contribute 2% MBB to the cap, and have significantly worse MB than my Herculean feet. IMO, Artifact3 feet are not that good. I mentioned Kyahan +3 as the best option, as the video highlights, but that is factoring 5/5 merits, which isn't always something people want to do for such a low priority action.

1. They are "bad" for 2 reasons. First its not like you can get max augment Leyline easy. You are probably talking from a perspective of already having them. Im talking from a perspective of person building a set and not having them. Getting max augment stuff from SR is pretty bad. Now for Herculean to break even you need something like 10 INT with 25 matt/macc and that is easy to get. Top augment with 15INT and 30+ mab/macc is harder to get, but still probably easier then max augmented Leyline. Come on, its herculean augment without 3rd augment "part" needed. Its not Stat+mab/macc+WSD for example, when you need to randomly hit high numbers for 3 different augment groups. Its "just" stat + mab/macc.

2. I think you are completely overlooking that AF+3 feet has +20INT on top of 23Mab, while Herculean has base 0 INT. INT is massive stat for NIN nukes. Your situation is also very subjective (im talking about your DM augmented hands + legs giving you 28%MBB). I was talking about AF+3 feet for MB set in general, not with your specific legs+hands. If you look at them from perspective of giving you full 10%MBB, then its +20INT, +23MAB, +10MBB and massive 52macc. Without merits, the only think that can beat that is probably only max augment Herculean with ~15INT, ~30mab and 8%MBB. That being said even if I would be lucky enough to get such herculean augment, I would probably still prefer AF+3, because the damage loss would still be low, while this 52macc is amazing for balancing the set, especially that you will be using a lot of pieces in other slots with low or no Macc at all. Ofc with 5/5 merits relic+3 all the way.
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By Thunderjet 2020-10-20 06:13:06
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YouTube Video Placeholder


US ASKING FOR NINJA BUFFS
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-20 20:12:56
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Downgrades for Gyve - rawhide vest, herculean vest.

Those are both solid alternatives, but I just go with Samnuha Coat and call it a day. If you can manage even a middling augment, that's probably the way to go.

Samnuha (perfect): INT+20 Macc+38 MAB+35 MBD II+8%
Rawhide (A): INT+32 MAB+25
Gyve: INT+39 MAB+42
Herculean: INT+21, no base MAB/Macc so it's all down to getting really strong augments.

Samnuha Coat advantages:
1) Samnuha is ideal for MBs (so you're gonna want to dedicate an inventory slot to it anyway), and even when you aren't going for super disciplined SC/MB setups I sometimes get a bonus accidental MB.

2) Samnuha also has a lot of Macc, Gyve/Rawhide have none, and Herculean is only what you get with an augment. This kinda makes me kinda lean toward Samnuha even over Gyve for free nuking if you're fighting something where Macc matters.

3) Inventory +1

4) For free nukes only, without any concern for Macc or MBs, Samnuha is already close if not better than Rawhide or a well augmented Herculean Vest.

For some context, my not quite perfect Samnuha Coat (MAB+13 Macc+14 augs on mine, 15 is max) is still slightly better than Rawhide A for free nukes. I just went out to test it, unbuffed/unresisted in the set I had on (forgot to bring a couple pieces!) I was hitting 11193 San nukes with Samnuha. Switched to Rawhide Vest (A path, R15) and no other changes, 11185. And obviously, Samnuha is way better if Macc matters or for bursts. I took my Rawhide vest off a mule just to test that, now I can safely send it back!
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-20 21:15:28
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I will say that for Ninjutsu nukes, most singular options are only a few points of DPS away from each other, so opting for a lesser piece that you have is quite alright if you don't care to hunt down the BIS options. It only starts being a small gap the more non BIS items you piece together in your set, and even then, i've found even without swapping major pieces, the damage is still close. I have found myself swapping into the wrong set for nukes and did not even notice it because the damage was consistent with the numbers i'm used to seeing.

I don't think, for example, downgrading from Gyve Doublet or Herculean Gloves to something mid-way would affect your dps too much. At most, would drop your burst damage by a couple thousand, and your free nuke dps by a few hundred.
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By Thunderjet 2020-10-21 08:10:21
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Seems like i have 1350 ACC without an offhand or food on nin time to make that TP bonus katana and save gill for balder earring +1, NO TO SAVAGE BLADE!
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-21 11:14:05
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Rua didn't post this in a NIN thread, but putting here

Ruaumoko said: »
NIN needs the same treatment MNK got, its Physical WS's need a big buff. Ninjutsu potency should scale with Skill. Yonin should negate the CE Loss penalty for losing a shadow and actually increase CE with each shadow the NIN loses, as that's the main reason Yonin is used. Finally, NIN needs an exclusive job trait which prevents all its shadows from being wiped in a single attack.

I agree with everything here, as much of it has been stated before. I think the exclusive job trait is actually a neat idea. I dont even think they need to go this far, though. They simply can add a trait to Migawari where it negates shadow removal if it is active. Can link it to Yonin stance so NIN DDs aren't indestructible, but it would make an already used unique spell even better. Also, I think we should get an update to Innin to where the directional requirement is removed. I agree with the ninjutsu potency as far as skill is concerned, but I think it would be just as simple to release higher tiers of Ninjutsu, or just rework the base potency of the Ni spells. Something along the lines of minor RDM enfeebles would be nice, as there isn't any job that can enfeeble anywhere close to RDM (for good reason). And I would like the self-buffing spells and enfeeblng spells to have stronger effects when paired with Futae. If I want to have 14 shadows for some reason, Futae+Utsusemi San and I can survive Hundred Fists a little better.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-21 16:12:24
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@Capuchin
after years of procrastination I finally did it. Started Kannagi.
I only have you to blame!
I hate youuu!
19/50 Briareus Helm atm xD
This is gonna take me ages, unless I decide to merc stuff.

Tbf Briareus is very easy, like 15 mins for one pop?
Sobek is gonna be worse with Gukumatz and competition.
And Apademak, god, I don't even wanna think about it.
Is Apademak the worst trial of all the Empyrean ones? Think so.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-10-21 16:16:25
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Is Apademak the worst trial of all the Empyrean ones? Think so.
of course not
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-21 16:23:04
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Let's hear what you think it's the worst! I'll stand by my opinion until then! XD XD XD
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-10-21 16:23:55
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chloris and glavoid
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-21 16:27:15
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Naaaaaah! Done countless of Chloris and Glavoid, way better than Apademak imho.
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