"The Republican War Against Women" - The Book

it's a bad argument as history has proven that it's failed.

Free market system is flawed just as a pure socialist system of government is flawed, greed kills both.

You need regulated capitalism, but healthcare shouldn't be in the industry of making profit.

You mean China where the baby flesh containing pills come from?

It's not working so well for those babies.

I don't think it's obvious in the slightest.

Ideally everyone would have top-notch healthcare and it would be free or such a trivial fee that it would never register as a concern at all. How do we get there?

The problem is, how do you continue to create incentive for qualified people to become doctors in the numbers that the US needs to service its population?

obviously there needs to be regulation to prevent fraud and abuse in ANY system, so you bringing that up is rather silly to me. do you think that little girl's lemonade stands should get shut down for operating without a permit? because it already happens. is that the kind of regulation you're for? that's not free market you stooge, we havent had a free market in a very very long time. when we did have a free market, it was the period of largest and fastest expansion of the middle class in history, ever. explain that, if you can please

oh, well thats OK, cause in this thread apparently we dont need to explain the obvious anyway. the way we make the cost of healthcare go down is by relativity, we get the standard of living and the wealth of the average american back up again.

there's flaws in every system, but last I checked their economy is trumping ours several fold.


That is one problem, as there's certainly some that would do it in order to help others, but the pay is certainly a current incentive now.

Truth be told I haven't thought of a solution to that, but other countries seem to make do with it and have a higher quality of healthcare than we do.
I'd be fine with it all being non profit private industries as well, where the profits go back into it. Like a co-op. People however shouldn't be getting wealthy over the suffering of others. The doctors getting fair compensation is one thing as they pretty much give their lives for what they do, however shareholders are another.

@Chakstealandbot: You need to cite something like that, or not bring it up in a discussion.

He'll just say it never happened

the Great Depression rings a bell.

your bold is the best thing I've read from you all day, that would be easy, now if we could only get companies to pay people what they deserve instead of pocket the profit they gain from underpaying employees.

China may be sound economically, but that's about it. As for Doctors in other countries, I'm sure for some a Gun was incentive enough.


I agree with you on this, but in some cases disagree. It's like if you give a man too much rope, he'll most likely use it to hang himself. My dad owned his own construction business, and it was put to himself this way when I came to his employee's salary: "Give them just enough to pay their bills, get drunk and have fun. But not so much that they come back Monday needing more money." It's sad, but true given the type of workers he had to employ to get work done in our small town in Texas.

you talking about the lemonade stands? pick your source. its not even one isolated incident

Just wanted to note that a matter of being, or rather, eating healthy is a heavy conflict for those of lower monetary class. Our food provisioners on mass level rely on heavily processed and chemically enhanced (thus unhealthy) foods to meet the massive demands of our country while maintaining optimal shelf life. Such processes also allow for optimal pricing, which many rely on simply so they have something in their stomachs at the end of the night.
We have livestock being fed things they weren't meant to eat to grow or develop while simultaneously injected with growth hormone steroids to give optimal amounts of food per unit, which then become ingested by consumers. We also have genetically altered seeds that build immunity to various pesticides and chemicals, all while maintaining a sweeping domination of patient and law so nobody else can use any other types of seeds. This market of heavily processed food downright monopolizes the industry in terms of price and mass production, so competition of healthier foods tend to get elevated prices which I am sure many would be unable to afford, even at a relatively middle class level.
So we have this perpetuating cycle of unhealthy food being ingested by a vast majority of Americans, while the options to eat healthy tend to be limited to those with the privilege of being able to afford it. Ironically, all this cheap food is only cheap in short term, while being ultimately more expensive when health complications arise over time, as opposed to those that can initially dish out the money to eat healthy and not remotely suffer as much from the bodily consequences of overly processed and preserved foods.

So don't misunderstand people not eating healthy as a "choice"; because often times it's the only option for their means. Therefore we have this sort of clash of maintaining principal within our healthcare system, while simultaneously perpetuating this rich vs poor scenario.

Free market, largest middle class, record expansion.

Yikes, those are the kind of articles I'd expect to read on The Onion.
Kind of disturbing to see that. I thought it a general passive understanding or common sense to regard such "businesses" as more of a charity rather than a legitimate means of established business.

Lemonade stands? That's awesome.

On a side note to this, as I don't disagree with you, but have you heard of Extreme Couponing? You can get crazy expensive things for cheap. My wife cut out grocery bill from $200~ish/mo to (on average) $100/mo. There's even a woman who came on the show and coupon's for her 100% vegan diet. And we're talking on a dime here. People in hard financial times have turned to coupons and been able to eat healthy/well again without sacrificing.

oh yes their human rights and many other areas needs a lot of work.

the point is: we tried 100% free market, it didn't work, we tried regulated capitalism it did work, however companies found loop holes and got around to straight out legally bribing legislation to benefit themselves, on top of a further wage gap, and it's basically making the entire working class the lower class, almost eliminating the middle class.

I will agree that unions are part of the problem as well, but if we got rid of those there should be more regulations across the US about wages, workers rights, hour/break regulation.

No people shouldn't be making $30+ an hour working in a damn factory. Another issue is the need for uneducated labor is diminishing, we're at a transition to where we can have an economy sustained where people don't HAVE to work for a living but only need to work for above the minimum, and no that shouldn't be subsidized by those who work, maybe by the elites, but by technology.

If people want above the bare minimum they should work, but they shouldn't have to work 2 40 hour jobs to maintain a roof over their head.
(another part is even now if people got paid more, people could be limited to a 30-32 hour work week and there would be less unemployment).

I see some issues with the plan aside from setting it up:

1. with people having more free time, they would require more things to keep them occupied, this ranges from crime prevention, to people being lazy/bored (fat), to people having more mental health issues, etc.

2. ok I'm out of ideas for the moment, had a phone call and lost my train of thought, feel free to post anything you think would be other issues in such a world.



the bottom line here is that I doubt any of the posters on this site are in the millionaire class, much less billionaire, we're about in the same boat together (even people in other nations than the US, this affects you too, oil is traded in US currency after all, our weak market means the oil will be high, hence why it's about 3x higher than it should be).

the working class built the nation, even today, the elites prosper due to the efforts of the working class, if it weren't for us, they wouldn't be there. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have to work ourselves to death to meet ends meet, just to retire when we're old, to probably be put in a home and get sponge baths and play bingo.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. People don't have any other choice but to eat Mc Donalds? Anyone who cannot put 2 and 2 together to realize that you save more money cooking your own food instead of going to a restaurant doesn't deserve my sympathy. Grocery store foods aren't toxic, you don't have to blow 400 bucks at whole foods to "eat healthy".

a recession is the product of a boom cycle, in the case of the great depression it was caused by war-time inflation. Hoover and Roosevelt both tried to correct it in many different ways and only made it worse. even World War 2 simply exchanged the unemployment for debt. the depression truly ended when they cut the taxes when the troops all came back home, it increased production greatly, thus lowering both unemployment and prices of goods, and it happened incredibly fast

Coupons actually work on a psychological level that encourage buying more than what is necessary, and often have conditions of purchasing at least 2 units of what was intended. Also since they're manufacturer based, they often lean towards name brand items which even with the coupon discount will cost more than going generic.
Coupons are a poor excuse of a solution for being able to eat healthy, especially since they tend to discount the very things you shouldn't be consuming in the first place.

I don't know...I'm seeing a few people in here saying that no one is actually entitled to healthcare. Basically what I'm getting from them is that if I can't afford it, I'm SOL.

Coupons are awesome and all, but when was the last time you saw a coupon for say...fresh vegetables? I don't think I've ever seen that, and those are pretty darn important for eating healthy. Coupons help with the bottom line, but I wouldn't consider them comprehensive solution all on their own. Eating healthy is still a expensive.

I never mentioned McDonalds or restaurants , but if that was what you mustered from reading my post, then I really don't need to explain myself to you, since you tend to have a habit of misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's words.

it's the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard because it doesn't fit in your world view, however it is the facts of the world.


not always, and the great depression had many factors, not limited to corruption, greed, prohibition.

Um we were pulling out of the depression after the new deal, the war pulled us out the rest of the way. As for the cut taxes bit, calling bs, trickle down economics doesn't work.

never heard of the gilded age of America? the states and cities were preventing free markets in some instances, but the federal government got out of the way and it was the largest expansion of the middle class. we even had open immigration, which we now can not have because of hefty welfare systems.

When I've got $17 to last me the week, you're damned right I'm going to eat McDonalds. $3 for 2 burgers and a large tea is hard to turn down when you're really hurting.

Though it's funny you mention McDonalds.
As it just so happens to be a legitimate means of getting the most food for your dollar. So it isn't a surprise that those that have a family they need to feed, but don't have the cash to do so appropriately will more often than not resort to McDonalds, because they rather not have their kids or their spouse go hungry for the night if it can be helped.

then whats your explanation for the rapid employment and production? the machines and factories were already there, right? they were simply missing the producers to operate and produce goods correct? how else can you get more of that without lowering the cost of operation?


sounds like you should quit trolling ffxiah and collect some cans or something, either way you're so far gone from the point of healthcare now

oh yea, i missed this cause of new page:
we talking about the same China? the one that harvests organs from prisoners? doesn't sound like the kind of people i want taking care of me, not to mention the government also killed a ton of their own people and have sexist laws about how many kids you can have, i love how you glorify china yet bag on the nutty right-wing catholics and christians for the same ***.

and can you show me where you explained how free food and water will be provided for all humans?

Where in that post did they even mention McDonalds... or any fast food place, for that matter?

I agree, coupons have the affect of having a person buy more than you would if not using the coupon. It is then upon the person to not go back to the store until both of those items are used up. But you are wrong when you say the coupon discount will cost more than going generic. In some cases that is true, but if you find the right bargains, you're wrong. The trick is to match sales with coupons to truly get the ideal price. Otherwise, yes Generic wins. In reference to your last comment, I mentioned a vegan couponer. You can get healthy food with coupons.


True, very true. I guess I should say the part of our Grocery bill that got decimated came from non-food items. Such as soap, tooth brushes (free), floss (free), Mouth-wash, and other things such as that.